Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Hey @Skinsinparadise I think you are starting to seriously worry now with this Darnold chatter. I worry for your sanity if this come to fruition.

 

lol, my sanity isn't driven by them getting San Darnold.  I think he ends up a bust just like he has been so far but that doesn't bother me either.  There is one key thing that bothers me about Darnold and that is the price.

 

If we want to try to revive high draft picks how about Trubisky or Winston where you can do it for free.    I am not a fan of either dude either but the risk is minimal.

 

For Darnold i am convinced you are likely giving up a 2nd and 4th or something like that.  I think you end up giving up Alex Smith type trade capital.    I get he's younger than Alex was.  But at least Alex showed he can play.  Darnold hasn't even showed that he's a passable starter let alone even an 17-24 average to below average type of QB.    If we got him for nothing in FA i wouldn't give a rats behind if we signed him or not.   But if I am trading high draft capital for Darnold or name that other flier like Trubsiky, I hate it.  If they end up doing it, Rivera better be right, he'd lose me on the personnel front if they bet big on Darnold and get it wrong.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ok cool for me when I think of moxie I think of a Favre gunslinger type, that's not him IMO.  But yeah escaping pressure in the pocket is his thing, roll outs. 

Yeah I’m not married to the label, just thought he showed a little something on certain plays. And his overall “game” attitude throughout a lot of losing.

[Darth Tater]

19 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Why would NY cut him? He's costing them a shade under 10 mil either way plus they don't get a comp pick if someone else picks him up.

Don't care.  If New York won't cut him then he should not be considered as an option. He gets to be their backup or they have to hope their own people can rehab him. If they can't, just wait for him as a street FA next year.

[86 Snyder]

How the **** did we end up talking about dealing multiple draft picks for Sam Darnold and signing him to an extention? 

 

If we do that I instantly lose all faith in this braintrust.

[Skinsinparadise]

Like I said, I bet half of these rumors type things are BS.  But for entertainment value...

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, my sanity isn't driven by them getting San Darold.  I think he ends up a bust just like he has been so far but that doesn't bother me either.  There is one key thing that bothers me about Darnold and that is the price

Agreed re the price, I don’t like the idea but will factor the price into any conclusion I come too. Seems bizarre for reports to imply the price is so high. Mid round pick 2021, conditional pick 2022 based on the outcome of his first season.

 

I honestly think I’d rather offer #19 for Carr.

[clskinsfan]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agreed re the price, I don’t like the idea but will factor the price into any conclusion I come too. Seems bizarre for reports to imply the price is so high. Mid round pick 2021, conditional pick 2022 based on the outcome of his first season.

 

I honestly think I’d rather offer #19 for Carr.

I would as well. But 19 alone isnt getting you Carr. 

[Darth Tater]

22 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

No way he gets cut and reports have already said multiple teams are interested if he becomes available. Coaches love a dude who can create off-schedule/when a play doesn’t work and will think they can create a system with necessary constraints to hone him in. He does have unique escape ability as I continue to watch more of his highlights. 

As long as we are not one of those idiot FOs.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

And also, the league knows we are looking and would love to get QB done, so you could expect our name to be linked to almost everyone. Leakers/Agents/GMs and those that benefit from action will be dropping dimes real or not about our involvement I’d surmise. Hopefully that’s the case with Darnold and hope it’s not us w/ Wentz. 

[ExoDus84]

Yeah, Sam Darnold...woof!

 

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

And also, the league knows we are looking and would love to get QB done, so you could expect our name to be linked to almost everyone. Leakers/Agents/GMs and those that benefit from action will be dropping dimes real or not about our involvement I’d surmise. Hopefully that’s the case with Darnold and hope it’s not us w/ Wentz. 

I would rather have Wentz over Darnold. At least Wentz has proven he can be a dominate player in the league. 

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I would as well. But 19 alone isnt getting you Carr. 

Agreed. I think i would have to exhaust that avenue before I did anything else though.

[Andre The Giant]

Seahawks getting calls...

[max21]

Sam Darnold? I’d give a 5th and Steve Sims 

[CommDownMan]

3 minutes ago, max21 said:

Sam Darnold? I’d give a 5th and Steve Sims 

 

But then who would catch passes for this offen...  never mind.  Carry on.

[Darrell Green Fan]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, my sanity isn't driven by them getting San Darnold.  I think he ends up a bust just like he has been so far but that doesn't bother me either.  There is one key thing that bothers me about Darnold and that is the price.

 

If we want to try to revive high draft picks how about Trubisky or Winston where you can do it for free.    I am not a fan of either dude either but the risk is minimal.

 

For Darnold i am convinced you are likely giving up a 2nd and 4th or something like that.  I think you end up giving up Alex Smith type trade capital.    I get he's younger than Alex was.  But at least Alex showed he can play.  Darnold hasn't even showed that he's a passable starter let alone even an 17-24 average to below average type of QB.    If we got him for nothing in FA i wouldn't give a rats behind if we signed him or not.   But if I am trading high draft capital for Darnold or name that other flier like Trubsiky, I hate it.  If they end up doing it, Rivera better be right, he'd lose me on the personnel front if they bet big on Darnold and get it wrong.

 

 

 

 

This Darnold talk is simply crazy. Even without giving picks it makes little sense to go down this road.  Another check down QB only this one is inaccurate.  You don't become a good team with a QB like Sam Darnold.  Waste of time a team does not have before the contracts come due.  

[Darth Tater]

Problem with Darnold IS that he either sucks in his own right or the Jets ****ed him up.  If he sucks in his own right, you don't touch him.  If it was the taint of the Jets, you are not going to have enough to know if you actually fixed him before you are going to have to commit.

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agreed re the price, I don’t like the idea but will factor the price into any conclusion I come too. Seems bizarre for reports to imply the price is so high. Mid round pick 2021, conditional pick 2022 based on the outcome of his first season.

 

I honestly think I’d rather offer #19 for Carr.

 

I'd be ok with #19 for Carr but wouldn't give up two #1s for hiim.

 

As for Darnold, some say you get him cheap.  That's my main disagreement.  I guess will see.  But right now the buzz is a 2nd and change (3rd or 4th) or Schefter said high first.  Darnold isn't coming cheap in all likelihood, so you are likely paying a bigger price than it took to get Alex.  That's wild. 

 

To use a stock analogy.  The Jets paid $60 for the stock.  It's gone down to $20.   Now you got a bidding process from buyers to get the $20 stock at $45 but are banking on potential and that the stock is undervalued in spite of its current price.   

 

Yeah maybe the stock will shoot up to 90 once you bought it at 45 but it could just as easily go down to how its performed so far, back to $20, and eventually be worthless. 

 

For me, If I want to get a reclamation project I'd want the dude cheap versus paying a hefty price to do it.   I am not paying through the nose for a fixer up house -- I'd want it at a bargain. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

14 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Straight Facts.

 

Rather have gotten Cam if I'd known we were going to cut Haskins because he was hot garbage, not because he lost his confidence from signing another starter for his job.

 

Cam is coming here at this rate as a bridge QB, its too easy.  It's lowest hanging fruit, I'm not buying we get Watson, but I am buying we aren't afraid to draft someone.

 

I'm still mad we didn't get Stafford, but I'll survive. Here's the thing, I really want us to go after Watson and stop making excuses for why we don't have a QB.  I don't see enough people looking at it that way, more what else can be lost out on.

 

Listen, you can't start a car without an engine. Stop trying, its the 21st Century, we need the best QB we can get.

I've been predicting it since the end of December and you're the first one to see my point. Cam is not a bad bridge QB because he has value as a short yardage QB and is someone RR can rely on if things go south with whoever starts (if Cam doesn't start). I believe RR regrets not signing Cam last season over going with DH but I also think it was the right decision. Now, we sign Cam, cheap, it costs us nothing in terms of assets, and Cam gets a chance to prove himself all over again in a very weak division. Or, Cam gets beaten out by Heinicke or Allen in preseason and he adjusts to his new role as a gadget QB rather than a franchise guy. I see Cam getting signed on an incentive laden contract with a chance to win the job vs Allen and Heiny. This move makes a lot of sense if you want to see what you have in Heiny after his great playoff performance. 

All this being said, it's just how I logically see things playing out IF WE DON'T FIND SOMETHING BETTER..

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Dark Acre]

With all the emphasis on franchise QBs, if a guy is available for trade AND his availability is not because he hates the dumpster fire he's in, then he's not a franchise QB so save the assets and build the team unless the cost is low enough.  If it's so important to have a FQB that you're willing to sacrifice building the team, and you're trading substantial assets for a guy, then he's not a FQB since why is his team trying to trade him?  (If it's salary cap issues, it makes my point about the cap needing a serious readjustment because it's driving the game.)

 

BTW, there's no way the NFL is going to have a low salary cap next year -- way too much havoc and too little dogs of war.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Brandon Weeden should probably keep his mouth shut if he wants a shot at that equipment manager position. 
 

I don’t believe any of the Darnold to WFT chatter. It’s prime silly season, and that is prime silliness.

[86 Snyder]

40 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I've been predicting it since the end of December and you're the first one to see my point. Cam is not a bad bridge QB because he has value as a short yardage QB and is someone RR can rely on if things go south with whoever starts (if Cam doesn't start). I believe RR regrets not signing Cam last season over going with DH but I also think it was the right decision. Now, we sign Cam, cheap, it costs us nothing in terms of assets, and Cam gets a chance to prove himself all over again in a very weak division. Or, Cam gets beaten out by Heinicke or Allen in preseason and he adjusts to his new role as a gadget QB rather than a franchise guy. I see Cam getting signed on an incentive laden contract with a chance to win the job vs Allen and Heiny. This move makes a lot of sense if you want to see what you have in Heiny after his great playoff performance. 

All this being said, it's just how I logically see things playing out IF WE DON'T FIND SOMETHING BETTER..

 

The problem with Cam is he has such a huge personality that he will completely takeover the QB room amd lockerroom in general.  You really cant have a legit QB comoetition with him on the roster because its too divisive to team chemistry.

 

On paper, I agree it makes a lot of sense.  He just has way too much gravity.

[kingdaddy]

7 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

The problem with Cam is he has such a huge personality that he will completely takeover the QB room amd lockerroom in general.  You really cant have a legit QB comoetition with him on the roster because its too divisive to team chemistry.

 

On paper, I agree it makes a lot of sense.  He just has way too much gravity.

This is where we would have to trust RR's judgement on how Cam would handle competing for a job and what he'd be like if he lost. If there is any question on how he'd handle it then pass on him. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I doubt he would take it. If the team declines the 5th year then his best interest would be to ball out and cash in. Accepting a low level bridge deal basically admits he's not gonna be any better than he has shown.

That kind of deal that would make sense would be something like:

$6 mil bonus now

2022- $12 mil

2023- $18 mil

2024- $27 mil

(none of that salary guaranteed)

 

For the team, you gamble $6 mil to start. Then, instead of a 5th year option which would guarantee if he gets hurt you get a true option at the end of the year which would basically be 18 mil total for that year, but 6 of which you have basically totally guaranteed. 

Then, you basically have two years at option amounts that you obviously wouldn't pay if he doesn't show you a lot. If he's good, it's a decent contract. If he becomes great, then you have a big bargain.

 

For Darnold, assuming no one wants to pick up the option (no one should), then you accept a bit of money up front with a three year deal that gives the team a price that makes them willing to keep you around if you show anything and you to still earn a lot of money. The only real downside is if you think you're going to turn into a top 10 QB you's probably lose out on something like $25 mil. But you'll  still be a FA at a young enough age to cash in mightily anyway. 

 

Maybe he'd take a deal like that, maybe he wouldn't. Maybe somebody will agree to the option. But I don't consider dealing for him without something like that in place. You can't risk him not showing you enough but getting hurt and being on the hook for 25ish mil. The "upside" would be that he would play well enough and you'd end up paying him a huge contract right away. Which, with the gamble you're taking dealing for a guy who hasn't done anything in the NFL, isn't enough upside. 

 

Not that I'm really advocating dealing for him right now at all, but if I did, I need some kind of extension like that in place.