Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Burgold]

The real question is whether Watson will back down. If he holds out then all of a sudden the leverage swings the other way. MInd you, there will be enough bidders that the cost will still be expensive, but if Watson is serious about being done with Houston then what we are seeing is the top of the asking price and it could go down by half.

[redskins4ever28]

1 minute ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Except when you consider the costs to acquire the players... 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, Montez Sweat and Kamren Curl vs. Maybe a 4th rounder. 

 

Guarantee they ask for Chase Young if we call. We have no shot at Watson, zilch. Also consider that those could be the demands for the Jets and Dolphins, we would have to pay even more. 

Those could be the demands for the Jets or Dolpins. Their 1st rounders are MUCH more valuable than ours is. I'm guessing we would have to pay more. 

I am not saying your wrong. I am just saying we also don’t know how badly he doesn’t want to play for Houston. The jets have the 2pick. There is definitely a real chance the Texans go with them as their trade partner. At the same time, New JeTS GM And coach might want to form their own path with their own qb pick in the draft. The jets have few spots of talent so I can see them not wanting to trade at all.  I can’t see the Phins making an offer. There’s no way they give up on Tua that quickly. I think it’s between us and the panthers.

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

The real question is whether Watson will back down. If he holds out then all of a sudden the leverage swings the other way. MInd you, there will be enough bidders that the cost will still be expensive, but if Watson is serious about being done with Houston then what we are seeing is the top of the asking price and it could go down by half.

This right here. You nailed it. The prices always start high crazy high. They go down the longer the teams wait and the more the player holds his ground if holding out

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm down with Mariota or Carr.

 I think at the moment those might be my top choices now if they are determined to go the veteran route -- depending on price.  And before someone comes at me, its not because i think either dude is the be all and end all but based on the currently supply of Qbs is what it is.    That's assuming either one hits the market. 

 

I

Edited February 2, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 minutes ago, redskins4ever28 said:

I am not saying your wrong. I am just saying we also don’t know how badly he doesn’t want to play for Houston. The jets have the 2pick. There is definitely a real chance the Texans go with them as their trade partner. At the same time, New JeTS GM And coach might want to form their own path with their own qb pick in the draft. The jets have few spots of talent so I can see them not wanting to trade at all.  I can’t see the Phins making an offer. There’s no way they give up on Tua that quickly. I think it’s between us and the panthers.

He already officially requested a trade so he wants to get out of Houston badly. The issue is, Houston doesn't have to trade him unless they get a kings ransom. There are so many teams out there that can outbid us that I feel like it would be a colossal waste of time. We should definitely call them, but what they're going to ask is going to be Watson's value, which is insanely high. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I think at the moment those might be my top choices now if they are determined to go the veteran route -- depending on price.  And before someone comes at me, its not because i think either dude is the be all and end all but based on the currently supply of Qbs is what it is.    That's assuming either one hits the market. 

 

I

I'm still high on Winston, but Carr is my second choice. I like what we've been building and want to keep it going. We should be pretty good for a while.

[RWJ]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I think at the moment those might be my top choices now if they are determined to go the veteran route -- depending on price.  And before someone comes at me, its not because i think either dude is the be all and end all but based on the currently supply of Qbs is what it is.    That's assuming either one hits the market. 

 

I

Who do you think is?  Guesstimate?

[86 Snyder]

1 minute ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Except when you consider the costs to acquire the players... 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, Montez Sweat and Kamren Curl vs. Maybe a 4th rounder. 

 

Guarantee they ask for Chase Young if we call. We have no shot at Watson, zilch. Also consider that those could be the demands for the Jets and Dolphins, we would have to pay even more. 

 

I mean, I literally said all that on the last page.  We dont have a chance vs. Miami.  Maybe against the Jets if he doesnt want to go there.  

 

Point is, make the attempt.  Put the picks aside, they werent on the team yet.  If we played last season with Watson instead of Sweat and Curl, do you not think we would have been much much better?  We'd still have a *very* strong dline and overall good defense.  The offense elevates enormously.  Youre in every game at that point.  You can attract Allen Robinson in free agency.  Fill defensive holes with FA.  Still have two 3rd rounders to plug holes.  Maybe trade them for better picks next year.  Eventually you'll have a 28 or 29 year old Watson and a full compliment of picks.  You establish a winning culture for another couple years, maybe get hot and make a championship game, who knows...then you still have a prime Watson and Chase and possibilities all over.

 

Or the flip side, you build a tough team similar to the Rams this year, hoping that a QB eventually lands in your lap.  Youre winning enough games that every season youre picking in the bottom half of the 1st and surpise surprise, no big time QBs are making their way to free agency.  You've had to pay Sweat and Curl big contracts and your 2021, and 2022 1st rounders are getting awfully thirsty too.  If they are actually good.  Otherwise, they didnt make the team much better or flat out busted.

 

Its a simple equation.  You need the QB at some point.  This one is young enough that you can get back to a full slate of picks and still have plenty of elite seasons remaining from him.  Maybe you find some diamonds in the rough in the interim. Its always easier to fix the rest of the team than find a QB and you know this one is a flat out stud.  The ticket has been scratched.  There is no mystery to how good the player is.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

I'm still high on Winston, but Carr is my second choice. I like what we've been building and want to keep it going. We should be pretty good for a while.

 

Watching Winston on Hard Knocks he came off to me a bit immature.  I know people can change.  but he doesn't strike me as a Rivera kind of culture guy.  Mariota on the other hand is supposedly a boy scout. 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/buccaneers/2018/06/28/jameis-winston-suspended-tampa-bay-buccaneers-uber/742691002/

The NFL announced Thursday that it has suspended Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Jameis Winston for the first three games of the season for groping a female Uber driver in 2016.

The league said in a press release that its investigation concluded that Winston violated the personal conduct policy by "touching the driver in an inappropriate and sexual manner without her consent."

Winston, who strongly denied the allegation when it first became public in 2017, issued a statement Thursday shortly before the NFL's announcement in which he apologized to the Uber driver for "the position I put you in."

"It is uncharacteristic of me and I genuinely apologize," Winston said in the statement. "In the past 2 1/2 years my life has been filled with experiences, opportunities and events that have helped me grow, mature and learn, including the fact that I have eliminated alcohol from my life.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/buccaneers/news/jameis-winston-nfl-bucs-saints-legacy

In 2012, while still at Florida State, Winston was accused of sexual assault by fellow FSU student Erica Kinsman. Winston was never formally charged with a crime, and the state attorney's office declined to pursue a criminal case against him. In 2016, Winston settled a federal lawsuit with Kinsman over the charges. 

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm still high on Winston, but Carr is my second choice. I like what we've been building and want to keep it going. We should be pretty good for a while.

Winston as in the failed QB from TB.  Another Haskin's flop but not as bad.

[Koolblue13]

I know about that stuff with Winston.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Who do you think is?  Guesstimate?

 

The GM press conference tomorrow might give us a clue.  I'd expect they will pump up the Qbs in the house as every team typically does but getting past that what else do they say?

 

My best guess is they are willing to be bold to get their man.  I tend to trust leaks more than most depending on where its coming from.  So we got a small leak about Carr.  I don't trust the Junkies completely but I'd say its possible.  I do trust Sheehan, I think he's sharp and knows how to avoid to be played so I buy that they like Fields especially because it fits the profile they seem to prefer everything being equal of having a QB with mobility.    Keim thinks they will go after Watson if he hits the market but i am guessing he either doesn't hit the market or if he does he ends up well out of reach. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The GM press conference tomorrow might give us a clue.  I'd expect they will pump up the Qbs in the house as every team typically does but getting past that what else do they say?

 

My best guess is they are willing to be bold to get their man.  I tend to trust leaks more than most depending on where its coming from.  So we got a small leak about Carr.  I don't trust the Junkies completely but I'd say its possible.  I do trust Sheehan, I think he's sharp and knows how to avoid to be played so I buy that they like Fields especially because it fits the profile they seem to prefer everything being equal of having mobility.    Keim thinks they will go after Watson if he hits the market but i am guessing he either doesn't hit the market or if he does he ends up well out of reach. 

Yes, Watson is DOA, IMO.  Fields, I'm ok with but understand that he stares down WRs and has a hard time ready defenses.  I hope that's not true.  He throws a nice ball and is mobile but I hope brain matched his physical traits too.  Not being hateful but we need someone with a mind that can absorb and look off WRs and be a true field general not only physically but mentally.  Carr is my hope and I hope their Plan B.

Edited February 2, 2021 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

If we're not worried about an injury prone QB...then why not just roll with Heinicke?

[Est.1974]

Rivera has seen enough of Winston from his Carolina days to judge that one. Winston had a fairly breakeven record for TB against him from memory, did include one shocking performance over here in a London game i think.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

If we're not worried about an injury prone QB...then why not just roll with Heinicke?

 

If you compare it via the sample size Heinicke's injury history is much more alarming than Mariota.  But more on point, Mariota is 6 '4 and 222 pounds.  Heinicke by his own admission is below 6 foot so am guessing 5 '11, 195 pounds?

 

No long term injury concerns i see.  But again I am not dying on a hill for Mariota.  We are just unlikely going to have a slew of studs to choose from at QB.  So if you have to look through the more realistic pile, he'd be one i'd consider

 

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/marcus-mariota/7204

Marcus Mariota Injury History

Date	League	Injury	Details
Dec 22, 2018	NFL	Cervical Neck Stinger	Mariota missed the season finale.
Nov 18, 2018	NFL	Cervical Neck Stinger	Mariota missed 1 half of play but returned the following week vs. Houston.
Sep 9, 2018	NFL	Arm Elbow Sprain	Mariota missed 1 game with a pinched nerve.
Oct 1, 2017	NFL	Thigh Hamstring Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1	Mariota missed only 1 game.
Dec 24, 2016	NFL	Leg Fibula Fracture	In Week 16, Mariota suffered a broken fibula against the Jags.
Dec 20, 2015	NFL	Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2	Mariota sprained his right MCL and missed the final two games.
Oct 18, 2015	NFL	Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2	Mariota was rolled up on in Week 6 against the Dolphins and sprained his MCL. He missed the next two games.
Jan 12, 2015	Non-NFL	Shoulder A/C Joint Sprain	Mariota sprained his right shoulder in the National Championship game.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

I’m kind of curious on the idea of Carr if he were made available at a reasonable cost. Outside of Watson, he’s the only one I am remotely enthusiastic about. That said, isn’t Carr less mobile than Alex Smith, almost? So where’s the logic there....
 

I also think that outside of a Watson trade, we really should be looking at Lance in the draft to sit and learn behind out get #1.

 

I don’t quite believe the Fields talk, yet.

[86 Snyder]

9 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

If we're not worried about an injury prone QB...then why not just roll with Heinicke?

 

I would much rather give Heinicke a shot than to bring in any of Carr, Mariota, or Dalton.

 

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you compare it via the sample size Heinicke's injury history is much more alarming than Mariota.  But more on point, Mariota is 6 '4 and 222 pounds.  Heinicke by his own admission is below 6 foot so am 5 '11, 195 pounds?

 

True but we already know Mariota is a pumpkin.  At least Heinicke has upside.  Kyle Allen can probably provide whatever MM can as well when Heinicke gets hurt.

 

[drowland]

For the people worried about the compensation to trade for Watson, if you can make that trade you're getting a 25/26 year old already top 5 NFL QB who would likely be here for a decade.  How many players on this current roster do you see being here that long?  If I had to put money on it, Chase and Terry would be the only possible ones because they're young and appear to be franchise pillars.  And maybe Tress since he's a punter   

 

Point is this type of move isn't a "SB or bust" move it's a franchise defining move that can make the WFT a year in and year out contender.  Longshot that it happens because I'd put Miami/Jets in the drivers seat, but if a trade goes down Ron and Co need to put up their best shot.  If Montez Sweat is included in a deal so be it.  We likely won't be able to pay him and Chase in a couple years anyway.  

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, drowland said:

If Montez Sweat is included in a deal so be it.  We likely won't be able to pay him and Chase in a couple years anyway

Funnily enough I see him as the odd one out down the line, of the 4 current starters anyway. Sending players to the Texans is poor form though 

[PartyPosse]

8 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

’m kind of curious on the idea of Carr if he were made available at a reasonable cost. Outside of Watson, he’s the only one I am remotely enthusiastic about. That said, isn’t Carr less mobile than Alex Smith, almost? So where’s the logic there....

He's a better passer.

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

True but we already know Mariota is a pumpkin.  At least Heinicke has upside.  Kyle Allen can probably provide whatever MM can as well when Heinicke gets hurt.

Mariota by all intents and purposes was looking like a very good player in the NFL up until his leg injury in 2016. That injury has been the tipping point so far in his career it looks like. I think he's worth a chance if we run out of options. 

[Est.1974]

Just now, PartyPosse said:

He's a better passer.

well there is that 

 

logic, as in what we are led to believe Rivera and Turned want in a QB, mobility being a fundamental attribute.

[KDawg]

I give a reasonable offer for Watson that favors us pre-draft. 2 firsts, 2 seconds and MAYBE a player (Settle, Ion or Allen but only if Allen isn’t going to sign the extension).

 

If that doesn’t get it done I try to move up in the draft and get Fields, Wilson or Lance.

 

If we come out of the draft with a mid round guy or not the projected franchise dude, I turn around and put the Texans offer back on the table. After we shore some holes with FA and this year’s draft. 
 

If we come out with a QB... fantastic. 

[86 Snyder]

11 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Mariota by all intents and purposes was looking like a very good player in the NFL up until his leg injury in 2016. That injury has been the tipping point so far in his career it looks like. I think he's worth a chance if we run out of options. 

 

There have been 4 full NFL seasons since then.  And he was 13th in QBR in 2016 (easily his best year) with very modest passing totals.  The TD:INT ratio was nice.  Still only completed 61% of his passes.  Big yawn.