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Rookie QB or Veteran QB for 2021???


Renegade7

Rookie QB or Veteran QB for next season(2021)???  

226 members have voted

  1. 1. Rookie QB or Veteran QB for next season (2021)???

    • Draft QB first round
    • Rookie QB from outside first round
    • Sign FA Veteran
    • Trade for Veteran
    • Stand Pat with one of the QBs we have on Roster, draft QB in 2022 Draft iinstead
    • I don't know
    • I don't care
    • I'm tired of 5 year development plans burned to the ground in less then 2
  2. 2. Rookie QB or Veteran QB for next season (2021)??? - (Feb 2020)

    • Draft QB first round
    • Rookie QB from outside first round
    • Sign FA Veteran
    • Trade for Veteran
      0
    • Stand Pat with one of the QBs we have on Roster, draft QB in 2022 Draft iinstead
    • I don't know
      0
    • I don't care
    • I'm tired of 5 year development plans burned to the ground in less then 2


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1 hour ago, joeken24 said:

Hmm. Deshaun Watson quietly played pretty damn well. But so did Matt Ryan. Ryan is a lot cheaper. QB.thumb.JPG.13251a4dee779d773abf95669baca96e.JPG


I think Matt Ryan has a very difficult contract situation in 2021 for the Falcons to get out of, especially as I believe they are in a bad cap situation too. Whether there is a way out of that for them, not sure.

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I know it's been talked about a plenty, but the issue for me with Fields isn't that he played at Ohio St., but rather the system he played in at Ohio St. Braxton Miller, Cardale Jones, JT Barrett, Dwayne Haskins have all proceeded Fields at Ohio St. under the Urban Meyer/Ryan Day era. All played at a high level while at OSU and looked to have futures as NFL QB's. Day ran the offense in Meyers last two seasons there, before taking over as HC when Meyer left after the 2018 season.

 

None have done anything in the NFL. Miller was actually moved to RB in his senior season and was drafted as a receiver. Jones was a 4th round pick and Barrett went undrafted. Both have been out of the league and we all know about how Haskins' career has gone so far.

 

My concern is that OSU runs a very QB friendly system with superior receivers that run around wide open. It's hard for me to ignore that the QB's who have played there under Meyer and Day have put up big numbers and have gone on to do nothing in the NFL. It's a sample size of their last four QB's, so I think some concern is warranted.

 

Now, of those previous guys, Fields does have potential- as they all have- and is probably the most talented of the group. He may very well turn out to be a good or very good NFL QB. I'm just dubious based on the guys before him and it's not the school, but the system at the school.

 

Oklahoma has become a hot bed for NFL QB's and that's not because of the school, it's because of the current system at the school. The difference is Lincoln Riley's system seems to get the Oklahoma QB's NFL ready, were the OSU system does not.

 

Back in the day when Barry Switzer was the HC at Oklahoma, the QB's were an afterthought because they ran a run heavy offense. It wasn't the school why QB's didn't put up big numbers, it was the system at the school back then. You have to look at the current state of the school, not the entire history of the school. 

 

So, while I do agree you can't just eliminate guys because of their school, I do think that that the recent history of OSU QB's putting up big numbers in their current system and that success not translating to even remote NFL success is something to be concerned about when considering taking Fields with our first round pick.  

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It’s not about the numbers. That’s the problem. You’re using numbers to evaluate prospects. 
 

Fields is capable of busting like anyone else. But his deep ball accuracy, mechanics, arm strength, field reads and athleticism is much different than the others.

 

 

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All this talk of Fields, do you y'all really think he's going to fall in the draft enough where we could move up to get him? 

 

I just don't see it personally, but most people I see posting about it, I am certain know way more than I, so now you're all getting my hopes up a bit. 

 

When we were 2-7, I was all in on tanking for landing Fields at the #2 spot. I think he's a generational player.  Perhaps some of it comes from watching QB1 on Netflix and becoming a fan of him in high school, but man this kid is solid AND has a great head on his shoulder to boot. 

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1 minute ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

All this talk of Fields, do you y'all really think he's going to fall in the draft enough where we could move up to get him? 

 

I just don't see it personally, but most people I see posting about it, I am certain know way more than I, so now you're all getting my hopes up a bit. 

 

When we were 2-7, I was all in on tanking for landing Fields at the #2 spot. I think he's a generational player.  Perhaps some of it comes from watching QB1 on Netflix and becoming a fan of him in high school, but man this kid is solid AND has a great head on his shoulder to boot. 


No. I do not.

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48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It’s not about the numbers. That’s the problem. You’re using numbers to evaluate prospects. 
 

Fields is capable of busting like anyone else. But his deep ball accuracy, mechanics, arm strength, field reads and athleticism is much different than the others.

 

 

 

Fair points and I respect your evaluation skills and your opinion. However, I think the guys before him all possessed deep ball accuracy, arm strength and athleticism- save Haskins-. As for field reads, they're a dominant offense with a superior run game and superior receivers, so how well he'll translate that to the NFL is questionable, in my opinion. 

 

There's a lot of guys who know much more than me about evaluating QB's- including yourself- that like Fields as a top NFL prospect a lot. Personally, I'm a skeptic, but what the hell do I know?

 

As you rightfully say, anyone can bust. And while I know Fields will not be available at our #19 pick, I do wonder if there's a possibility of us attempting to trade up to grab him....that concerns me a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

It can't end that argument, and it shouldn't.  Seriously, realistically it can't because HOF QB's don't grow on trees and you can't just go buy one at Best Buy. There are franchises that have never had a HOF QB and it's not for lack of trying. The fact is, until we figure out how to find a QB we are left with strategizing other ways as to how to win a SB. Think about it, we are seeing teams across the league that used high draft picks to get their next stud, and they all felt great about it, only to now think they need to find someone else. Look at this list of teams who drafted QB high and now are having problems:

Rams; Took Goff #1 overall in 2016....just traded him.

Eagles: Wentz, #2 overall pick in 2016....benched in week 13, future in doubt in Philly. Eagles drafted Jalen Hurts in 2nd round 2020 draft.

Jets: Darnold....high 1st round pick of the Jets, jury still very much out on Darnold

Bears: Trubisky....Bears traded up to get their QB of the future in 2017. He's about done there....

Broncos: Lock....2nd round pick of Denver in 2019 and they just tried dealing for Stafford but came up short. They're not sold on Lock

Miami: Tua.....already rumblings that he is not the answer in Miami and they picked him high in the 2020 draft. 

Redskins: Haskins.....1st round pick in 2019, cut in December. We all know the story

I could go on and on and on.....Waiting for or trying to find a HOF QB is so hard that you have to plan to win in other ways. It doesn't mean you settle for another QB, but sometimes a marginal QB is what is in the cards so you go from there and do your best with what you've got....keep looking for sure. Good scouting departments can help ease some of these struggles (see Kansas City/Mahomes). 

 

We get all of this. The point is not that getting a HOF QB is easy, we all know it's not.   This exercises is to address the posters who claim you can get by with a marginal QB as they reference the oddities such as Trent Dilfer or Mark Rypien. We see this position constantly and it's full of holes.  Making a long run with a marginal QB is next to impossible. That remains the point.  

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22 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

We get all of this. The point is not that getting a HOF QB is easy, we all know it's not.   This exercises is to address the posters who claim you can get by with a marginal QB as they reference the oddities such as Trent Dilfer or Mark Rypien. We see this position constantly and it's full of holes.  Making a long run with a marginal QB is next to impossible. That remains the point.  

This is right on. The game is different now than it was when Dilfer won. IMO you need a QB that can escape pressure, extend plays, can run when he has to. I think you go for Watson. He is the 4th best QB in the league. I would go 2 # 1's and give them Payne. Texans want a young cheap good player. If they can get Payne then they could dump Watt. If they do not take this deal then maybe throw in a 2 but that is it. What are the odds we get a guy as good as Watson with the 19th pick? 

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34 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

 

Fair points and I respect your evaluation skills and your opinion. However, I think the guys before him all possessed deep ball accuracy, arm strength and athleticism- save Haskins-. As for field reads, they're a dominant offense with a superior run game and superior receivers, so how well he'll translate that to the NFL is questionable, in my opinion. 

 

There's a lot of guys who know much more than me about evaluating QB's- including yourself- that like Fields as a top NFL prospect a lot. Personally, I'm a skeptic, but what the hell do I know?

 

As you rightfully say, anyone can bust. And while I know Fields will not be available at our #19 pick, I do wonder if there's a possibility of us attempting to trade up to grab him....that concerns me a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Braxton Miller was a ridiculous athlete that had a primary goal to run the ball. He had 667 pass attempts and 557 rush attempts. He was a run first guy all the way. And on top of that he had two shoulder surgeries which basically forced the move to receiver, which was probably the better career move for him. He was a sub 60% completion rate guy who used his legs to draw the defenses in. Didn’t read a whole lot.

 

JR Barrett was 769 pass attempts and 656 rush attempts. His completion % was low to mid 60s, so better. But his legs opened the pass and he wasn’t a read guy at all. He lost his starting spot to Cardale Jones after an ankle injury took him out of play in 2014.

 

Jones had 269 passes and 153 rushes. He wasn’t the same athlete as the other guys but he had more of a pocket presence. Jones’ lone season as a starter really wasn’t all that impressive from a statistical standpoint and he didn’t impress his HC either as he replaced Jones with Barrett mid season. Jones then replaced Barrett because Barrett was suspended. 
 

Barrett started the next two years. In one game against Bowling Green he had 7 total touchdowns. Barrett was largely seen as a fairly inaccurate downfield passer who had to use his legs to get guys open by many.

 

He was a mess mechanically and locked on to his first read a vast majority of the time. He was Lamar Jackson but less skilled as a thrower and a runner.

 

We know the Haskins story. Mechanics were a significant issue, but his quick release me arm strength allowed him to play extremely well in college. 
 

Now Fields. Fields has thrown 618 passes and run just 260 times and completed near 70% of his passes. He was among the collegiate leaders in downfield pass completion (which can also be attributed to his receivers). 

He has fantastic mechanics. He locks on to his first option at times but then he also does well reading the field at times and getting through his progressions. There are places where he can still develop as a passer such as those. 
 

He uses his legs when he has to and he is just as gifted as any previous OSU QB with his legs. But they are not a crutch for him. He’s also tough as nails. 
 

He’s different.

 

I don’t know that he is going to make it. No one ever does. I have reservations in Lawrence, too. And any top QB prospect. But I’d bet he winds up doing well in the league so long as his team doesn’t surround him with dog **** for 4 seasons. If he has an adequate roster he should pan out. He is too smart and too mechanically sound and too athletic. He has too much touch. He HAS to improve his reads, but he’s on path there.

 

 


 

 

Edited by KDawg
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Yes, you need a very good to elite QB to be in the final 4 every year for the most part, but you also need to draft that QB and develop him. It's hard, that's why there is a QB deficit.

 

Draft someone and have a good vet also, win games and be competitive while trying to improve.  

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I think our long term solution is still with the draft. The QB may need to sit for a year or even two but we aren’t 1 player away.

 

Also, why is everyone banking on Round 1 for a QB.

 

Why can’t we be like other teams and find the QB in other rounds. Why can’t we find the next: Montana,Wilson,Brees or Brady.

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11 minutes ago, KDawg said:


 

Braxton Miller was a ridiculous athlete that had a primary goal to run the ball. He had 667 pass attempts and 557 rush attempts. He was a run first guy all the way. And on top of that he had two shoulder surgeries which basically forced the move to receiver, which was probably the better career move for him. He was a sub 60% completion rate guy who used his legs to draw the defenses in. Didn’t read a whole lot.

 

JR Barrett was 769 pass attempts and 656 rush attempts. His completion % was low to mid 60s, so better. But his legs opened the pass and he wasn’t a read guy at all. He lost his starting spot to Cardale Jones after an ankle injury took him out of play in 2014.

 

Jones had 269 passes and 153 rushes. He wasn’t the same athlete as the other guys but he had more of a pocket presence. Jones’ lone season as a starter really wasn’t all that impressive from a statistical standpoint and he didn’t impress his HC either as he replaced Jones with Barrett mid season. Jones then replaced Barrett because Barrett was suspended. 
 

Barrett started the next two years. In one game against Bowling Green he had 7 total touchdowns. Barrett was largely seen as a fairly inaccurate downfield passer who had to use his legs to get guys open by many.

 

He was a mess mechanically and locked on to his first read a vast majority of the time. He was Lamar Jackson but less skilled as a thrower and a runner.

 

We know the Haskins story. Mechanics were a significant issue, but his quick release me arm strength allowed him to play extremely well in college. 
 

Now Fields. Fields has thrown 618 passes and run just 260 times and completed near 70% of his passes. He was among the collegiate leaders in downfield pass completion (which can also be attributed to his receivers). 

He has fantastic mechanics. He locks on to his first option at times but then he also does well reading the field at times and getting through his progressions. There are places where he can still develop as a passer such as those. 
 

He uses his legs when he has to and he is just as gifted as any previous OSU QB with his legs. But they are not a crutch for him. He’s also tough as nails. 
 

He’s different.

 

I don’t know that he is going to make it. No one ever does. I have reservations in Lawrence, too. And any top QB prospect. But I’d bet he winds up doing well in the league so long as his team doesn’t surround him with dog **** for 4 seasons. If he has an adequate roster he should pan out. He is too smart and too mechanically sound and too athletic. He has too much touch. He HAS to improve his reads, but he’s on path there.

 

 


 

 

 

Thank you for the in depth analysis of each guy- very well done, as always. That said, I'm still dubious of Fields as an NFL QB. I'm a stubborn Italian guy- what can I say.

 

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2 hours ago, fearlessNelms said:

Ohio St. Braxton Miller, Cardale Jones, JT Barrett, Dwayne Haskins have all proceeded Fields at Ohio St. under the Urban Meyer/Ryan Day era

Except that Day’s system is different from Meyer’s and he’s only had one QB.

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2 hours ago, KDawg said:

It’s not about the numbers. That’s the problem. You’re using numbers to evaluate prospects. 
 

Fields is capable of busting like anyone else. But his deep ball accuracy, mechanics, arm strength, field reads and athleticism is much different than the others.

 

 

 

I am probably only a hair behind you as for liking Fields.   I am big on him, too.

 

Sheehan who doesn't leak much but when he does he's often righ:  said on the radio today he knows there are multiple people in the organization that likes Fields a lot both as a player and as a dude.  They are very high on him.  He doesn't know though if they plan to make a move on him.  He doesn't know if they like Lance or not. 

 

He added they didn't see Haskins as a leader or liked his makeup as a QB.  But they do like Fields as far as makeup. 

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Assuming we bring back Scherff and Darby ... we have:

 

1 glaring hole: QB

2 major holes: WR, MLB

4 future needs/upgrades: LT, FS, CB, OLB

2 depth/upgrades: DE, TE


with cap space and draft picks it’s reasonable to expect most of these to be addressed in some capacity this year and next year. 
 

those aren’t a lot of overall issues so there’s really ample room to invest assets in the glaring/major holes section whether it’s cap or early picks 

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Assuming we bring back Scherff and Darby ... we have:

 

1 glaring hole: QB

2 major holes: WR, MLB

4 future needs/upgrades: LT, FS, CB, OLB

3 depth/upgrades: DE, TE


with cap space and draft picks it’s reasonable to expect most of these to be addressed in some capacity this year and next year. 
 

those aren’t a lot of overall issues so there’s really ample room to invest assets in the glaring/major holes section whether it’s cap or early picks 

I personally don't feel that we have a lot of holes, but the holes we do have are just enormous. QB, LBer, WR

 

There are plenty of places that I think we can upgrade for sure though.

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2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Assuming we bring back Scherff and Darby ... we have:

 

1 glaring hole: QB

2 major holes: WR, MLB

4 future needs/upgrades: LT, FS, CB, OLB

2 depth/upgrades: DE, TE


with cap space and draft picks it’s reasonable to expect most of these to be addressed in some capacity this year and next year. 
 

those aren’t a lot of overall issues so there’s really ample room to invest assets in the glaring/major holes section whether it’s cap or early picks 

 

Yep.  The idea that you can't aggressively get a Qb and address other needs seems wild to me.  You got enough picks and cap room to address more than one spot.   

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I personally don't feel that we have a lot of holes, but the holes we do have are just enormous. QB, LBer, WR

 

There are plenty of places that I think we can upgrade for sure though.

 

Arguably the 2 biggests are tailor made in FA.  Perfect storm for WR. 

 

As for MLB its not as good but potentially it's plenty good enough.

 

I don't recall a FA season in eons that was this stacked at WR and FS. 

 

 

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Watson has a cap hit in 2021 of 10.5mil. The hit rises to 35mil in 2022, then 20mil salary in 2023, with a 17mil roster bonus that you could look to pro-rate. I’m sure an acquiring team will look at his deal. Even a re-worked deal from 2021 with a significant SB will have a 10mil range cap hit.

 

So we can release Smith as a post 1 June, save almost 20mil on the cap, and squeeze both Watson and a premier WR in the roster instead. Not the worst idea......

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33 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

I think our long term solution is still with the draft. The QB may need to sit for a year or even two but we aren’t 1 player away.

 

Also, why is everyone banking on Round 1 for a QB.

 

Why can’t we be like other teams and find the QB in other rounds. Why can’t we find the next: Montana,Wilson,Brees or Brady.

 

Because for those 4 names there are about 987 later round QBs who don't amount to anything.  The odds are just too long for this to be the plan.  

 

This offseason is unique. I'm still not convinced Houston will make Watson available but if they do we are talking about QBs at the level of Watson and Stafford being available to the highest bidder. That never happens and there's a reason for that. Teams understand the value of a really good/great QB and rarely allows them to leave.  

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18 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Except that Day’s system is different from Meyer’s and he’s only had one QB.

 

Day has been running the OSU offense since 2017. So, although Meyer was still the HC in '17 and '18, Day was running the offense. I believe their offensive systems are similar and since Day has been the OC, he's had three QB's in Barrett, Haskins and now Fields. 

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Someone smarter than me needs to address Fields ability to convert to an NFL offense... but he should get all kinds of love for beating Clemson. (Destroying really) and taking his team to the title game. Haskins was terrible against good competition, the comp isn’t there for these two. 

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