Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Lawrence is a pro style QB with just about every trait you could ask for. Griffin played in a read option scheme and didn't go beyond his first read much at Baylor. Try again.

 

#2 is a chance to get someone worth it and we blew it.  Unless we get #1 we are trading up for him.  And if we are wrong, then what? 

 

How many other QBs have come out of pro style offenses and failed?  Again, this isn't even about if Lawrence is worth it, is this the best place for him right now?  It's not.

 

Young was supposed to be generational and he was a milk cartoon today.  That's normal for a rookie, if we want to start winning games, shouldn't stop asking our saviors to be just old enough to drink alcohol?

 

Get a veteran for 2021 then really scope out who's the best fit for this team versus the flavor of the year.  We keep failing at that.

[JoggingGod]

Zach Wilson has an outside shot at QB2. I think he's going to fly up the draft boards.

[Skinsinparadise]

Love it even PFF getting in on it

 

 

 

[Alexa]

Calling Lawrence a generational player is just off. Way off. Watch the national championship game last year. He looked like Mitch Tribisky. 

[Warhead36]

The problem with going for a vet is you have to commit resources to one. Even an average starting QB probably runs you close to $10 Mil a year. And for what? To go 6-10? I'd rather just draft a young guy that has a shot at being a perennial All Pro for cheaper OR just keep trotting Allen out there while we shore up the rest of the roster.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You need one at some point though. The earlier you get one, the better. Its impossible to sustain success in the NFL without one.

 

I agree with needing one eventually, just why does it have to be now?  We just watched them go back and forth with an 0-5 football team and I can't say it was all QB.  

 

I want a stopgap for a change, can't we get ourselves together first, this get them as soon as possible thing isn't working. It's just not.

[JoggingGod]

Just now, Alexa said:

Calling Lawrence a generational player is just off. Way off. Watch the national championship game last year. He looked like Mitch Tribisky. 

Okay I'm convinced this board is just saying **** to be ironic

[Renegade7]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

The problem with going for a vet is you have to commit resources to one. Even an average starting QB probably runs you close to $10 Mil a year. And for what? To go 6-10? I'd rather just draft a young guy that has a shot at being a perennial All Pro for cheaper OR just keep trotting Allen out there while we shore up the rest of the roster.

 

I again am not against this at all.  Even a veteran for two years at a high price is better then finding we ruined another guy with a top 5 pick.  

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Zach Wilson has an outside shot at QB2. I think he's going to fly up the draft boards.

I don’t think he surpasses Fields. I am sold on Fields if his play this year matches last year’s. 
 

Trey Lance is a guy with a LOT of upside, but he’s a developmental project. I think Wilson is, too. I think he uses everything he has to throw the ball downfield. But he understands what defenses are doing, takes advantage of what’s there and can use his legs. I do like Wilson. I don’t see him as QB2 or even 3. But 4? Absolutely. And he could challenge for 3. 
 

He’s good. 

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I think the state of the franchise could change from the start of FA to the draft. We don’t know 100% yet which o linemen or WR will be available in FA yet, it’s not impossible to sign a couple good ones in FA and then draft Lawrence. 

 

It'd require not only an aggressive FA period, but folks wanting to come here.  I didn't get that vibe at all this year, didn't Cooper turn us down for less money to stay in Dallas?

 

I'm concerned we are in Washington Wizards territory where stars don't want to sign here and waste their time.  Can anyone blame them with ownership being in flux?  

 

Why I'm at either trade or put Allen out there again in 2021.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Renegade7

[TradeTheBeal!]

Trade for Stafford and win the NFC East for the next 3 years.

[method man]

I really like Wilson. He is a guy that flashes Brees like intelligence and absolutely works his ass off. He should be QB3 and perhaps QB2 by the end of the season

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, dyst said:

Is the veteran Mahomes or Wilson, because I’d go for Lawrence otherwise.

 

Waiting for smoke on Stafford, even ARod.

[Daniel.redskins]

You don't pass on Lawrence or Fields.  You just don't.  To me Lance is a developmental guy, kind of like Jordan Love.  If we can't get Lawrence or Fields, let's build the **** line and wide outs and roll with whomever.  I'm not opposed to giving Montez some reps this season to see what he has.  

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Trade for Stafford and win the NFC East for the next 3 years.

 

Him and Rivera are made for each other.

[Skinsinparadise]

This whole we can't develop a QB stuff theory while I understand it to an extent IMO its hyperbole and detracts from the main point which is we failed to draft talented Qbs.  Trent Green started here.  RG3 looked great for a season, got hurt and his career changed.  Kirk was decent albeit not great -- and he was a 4th rounder.

 

The main issue with the QB spot, IMO hasn't been drafting great talent but then failing. There was a sample size for Ramsey, or Campbell or whomever once they left.   And no they didn't leave here and soared.  The idea that they were too damaged to succeed elsewhere IMO is silly.    People can't say hey it was the supporting cast and coaching that failed them yet when that changes and they still struggle elsewhere its about some carryover impact from the past.   

 

Haskins to me is likely another in the line of guys that aren't set up to be franchise QBs.  I wasn't sold on him before the draft.  I am not shocked that his trajectory is what it has been.

 

Clinton Portis summed it well once as to why this team can't get over the hump.  He said while they've been bad, they haven't been bad enough to draft high enough to get elite players.  I'd add to that elite QBs aren't easy to find later in the draft.  They are much easier to get with the first pick or the 2nd pick in the draft.  Not at 15.    Or in the late first where they got Campbell and Ramsey.  If you aren't getting the top QB or at the 2nd best it becomes much more of a crap shoot. 

 

And we've been shopping in the crap shoot aisle of QBs.  To me the more on point message on QBs is why can't we get lucky in the crap shoot aisle of QBs because some other teams do get lucky with that crop albeit far from all of them.

 

If Lawernce and Fields live to their reputation I doubt they fail here.  But if we end picking lets say 9th and get the 4th best QB, lets say Trask.  That would be on point for the last 20 years here plus.  RG3 was the exception and his rookie year was probably the best season we've had since the 91 SB year -- but his career went off the rails after the injury.  

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I agree with needing one eventually, just why does it have to be now?  We just watched them go back and forth with an 0-5 football team and I can't say it was all QB.  

 

I want a stopgap for a change, can't we get ourselves together first, this get them as soon as possible thing isn't working. It's just not.

Because there is no guarantee we'll be in a position to draft one at a later time.

 

We had a shot at one last year with Tua but passed, which I was okay with because Chase Young is a stud and Tua has all sorts of question marks.

 

But if we are picking top 3 again and once again pass up on a franchise QB prospect, we could be screwing ourselves big time if we get a stop gap who gets us up to like 6-10 where we end up out of range.

[JoggingGod]

I have no idea why anyone has Lance ahead of Wilson. Wilson is so clearly better when it comes to going through his reads and ball placement, plus is a 3 year starter.

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I want a stopgap for a change

We tried that with McNabb Grossman and Alex Smith. It flopped. The two QBs that actually did something here were drafted by us.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This whole we can't develop a QB stuff theory while I understand it to an extent IMO its hyperbole and detracts from the main point which is we failed to draft talented Qbs.  Trent Green started here.  RG3 looked great for a season, got hurt and his career changed.  Kirk was decent albeit not great -- and he was a 4th rounder.

 

The main issue with the QB spot, IMO hasn't been drafting great talent but then failing. There was no sample size for Ramsey, or Campbell or whomever once they left.   And no they didn't leave here and soared.  The idea that they were too damaged to succeed elsewhere IMO is silly.    People can't say hey it was the supporting cast and coaching that failed them yet when that changes and they still struggle elsewhere its about some carryover impact from the past.   

 

Haskins to me is likely another in the line of guys that aren't set up to be franchise QBs.  I wasn't sold on him before the draft.  I am not shocked that his trajectory is what it has been.

 

Clinton Portis to me summed it well once as to why this team can't get over the hump.  He said while they've been bad, they haven't been bad enough to draft high enough to get elite players.  I'd add to that elite QBs aren't easy to find later in the draft.  They are much easier to get with the first pick or the 2nd pick in the draft.  Not at 15.    Or in the late first where they got Campbell and Ramsey.  If you aren't getting the top QB or at the 2nd best it becomes much more of a crap shoot. 

 

And we've been shopping in the crap shoot aisle of QBs.  To me the more on point message on qBs is why can't we get lucky in the crap shoot aisle because some other teams do get lucky albeit far from all of them.

 

If Lawernce and Fields live to their reputation I doubt they fail here.  But if we end picking lets say 9th and get the 4th best QB, lets say Trask.  That would be on point for the last 20 years here plus.  RG3 was the exception and is rookie year was probably the best season we've had since the 91 SB year -- but his career went off the rails after the injury.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I personally hate the "we suck at drafting QBs!" argument. Yeah? Well so did the Bengals, but they didn't stop. Now they have Joe Burrow who looks like he's gonna be a stud. Were the Chiefs any good at drafting/developing QBs? Nope. Until they got Pat Mahomes. The Bills were a QB wasteland too until they got Josh Allen. And the list goes on and on.

 

You keep trying until you find the guy.

[TradeTheBeal!]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Him and Rivera are made for each other.

I want it to happen so badly. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

I have no idea why anyone has Lance ahead of Wilson. Wilson is so clearly better when it comes to going through his reads and ball placement, plus is a 3 year starter.

We tried that with McNabb Grossman and Alex Smith. It flopped. The two QBs that actually did something here were drafted by us.

You quoted the wrong person on that.

[KDawg]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

I have no idea why anyone has Lance ahead of Wilson. Wilson is so clearly better when it comes to going through his reads and ball placement, plus is a 3 year starter.

Potential. 
 

Right now Wilson is the better QB. Lance is really, really raw. But he is big, strong, fast and has a good arm. He has the intangibles you want... if you’re looking to sit a guy for a couple of years and surround him with talent.

 

Wilson will likely need to sit a bit, too, but he could be a mid season guy where he’s ready relatively early in the process. I worry about his arm a little... he uses everything he has on all of his throws. But no one can deny his heart, ability and work ethic. 

[Renegade7]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Because there is no guarantee we'll be in a position to draft one at a later time.

 

We had a shot at one last year with Tua but passed, which I was okay with because Chase Young is a stud and Tua has all sorts of question marks.

 

But if we are picking top 3 again and once again pass up on a franchise QB prospect, we could be screwing ourselves big time if we get a stop gap who gets us up to like 6-10 where we end up out of range.

 

As has been mentioned, it's fair to ask where we are drafting.  Because top 3 might not be good enough, its may need to be #1 or #2, preferably #1.

 

Are we the worst team in football and ensured a #1 pick?  Would a veteran like Stafford leave us at 6-10 in 2021 with another offseason to work on the roster?

 

Getting the guy of the future is half the battle, how many times have we proven that or seen other franchises prove that?

 

The rule is if you suck at QB, keep drafting them.  How much draft capital have we been giving up to figure this out?  It's not working.

[CobraCommander]

Why not both? We have plenty of cap space. Depends on which veteran QB's are available and where we pick I guess.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I personally hate the "we suck at drafting QBs!" argument. Yeah? Well so did the Bengals, but they didn't stop. Now they have Joe Burrow who looks like he's gonna be a stud. Were the Chiefs any good at drafting/developing QBs? Nope. Until they got Pat Mahomes. The Bills were a QB wasteland too until they got Josh Allen. And the list goes on and on.

 

You keep trying until you find the guy.

 

Yeah exactly.    Haskins, Campbell, Ramsey weren't the top QBs in the draft or even the 2nd most highly regardled.  You aren't ever going to get a 30-30 ESPN special about how did dudes like them who just screamed bonafide star suprisingly fail in the NFL.  All of them had major asterisks about them before the draft.   

 

It's not like we've been drafting universally loved prospects and the league has been shocked that they haven't succeeded.

 

The failures here make sense.  RG3 being an exception and he soared for a season until the injury.

 

We keep swinging.  We can say how can Geron Christian fail considering all the stud LTs we've drafted?  Prior moves on a position doesn't have anything to do with future moves.  Especially when coaching staffs change and FO people change.  Cerrato and Bruce Allen and Kyle Smith are all different dudes.  Ditto Shanny, Gibbs, Zorn and Rivera.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Skinsinparadise