London Kev Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 13 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: I don't see any way that players would tank. Their football futures, careers, and contracts are at stake. Whether they're a young player who is somewhat marginal at the time, trying to establish himself in the league, he needs all the production he can get, to keep his career rolling. Or whether it's an established player, who wants to play for a bigger contract ; none of them want the Tank Stain on their football resume, for a whole year, practically. In addition, none of them want to be the 3-13 laughingstock of the town, and the league This has always puzzled me. Is there really such a thing as tanking? The players don't gain anything from losing, so who does, the coaches, the owner, how does it work? Does the head coach decide to tank and then calls bad plays or sits his better players so that the team is more likely to lose? Or is it the owner that decides and then tells the coaches to start throwing games? Or is it just a term that sums up the wishes of some fans, but is not really an actual thing? You never gain anything for losing over here so tanking is not an option, in fact I would guess that most people in England have never heard of the word in that context. It's an alien concept to me and I don't like it (but understand the reasoning behind it), but is it a real, actual thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, London Kev said: This has always puzzled me. Is there really such a thing as tanking? The players don't gain anything from losing, so who does, the coaches, the owner, how does it work? Does the head coach decide to tank and then calls bad plays or sits his better players so that the team is more likely to lose? Or is it the owner that decides and then tells the coaches to start throwing games? Or is it just a term that sums up the wishes of some fans, but is not really an actual thing? You never gain anything for losing over here so tanking is not an option, in fact I would guess that most people in England have never heard of the word in that context. It's an alien concept to me and I don't like it (but understand the reasoning behind it), but is it a real, actual thing? Of course it is. The players aren't the ones who tank. And neither are the coaches. They never want to lose. But teams are often compiled in a way that means you aren't going to win many games. You may have talent, but the scheme doesn't fit. You may trade off talent to get draft picks to help you down the line... You may not have had a good option at QB and you are likely to lose games because you couldn't replace them and you embrace that. Tanking could even mean getting rid of older players to develop younger players even if it means you lose games because of it. Tanking is a very real thing. But tanking isn't really done on game day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, London Kev said: This has always puzzled me. Is there really such a thing as tanking? is it a real, actual thing? It's just a Conspiracy Theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 18 hours ago, philibusters said: I don't know if how Smith will grade the QB's, but I think of it as a first tier with Lawrence, Fields, and Wilson all in that first tier. Within the first tier I think Lawrence is probably the best prospect as he is the least riskier as he has every physical tool. I like Wilson more than Fields, but that one is highly debateable. Do you value creativity (Wilson) or physical tools (Fields) more? I agree with this. I like Wilson probably second most in this draft. I'm still questionable on Fields. I think his ceiling is high but I don't know where I place him. The more I read the more I get rumors of Wilson and I like that but I still think Wilson is more of a playmaker. But It doesn't matter because I think we're deciding between Wilson and Lance right now and I have Wilson above him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
“Misdirection” Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Should I be rooting for the Lions or Texans in regards to us having the best draft pick? I would think Texans so more teams have more wins, but I’d say more likely lions find a way to take a QB the Houston? help me find a rooting interest lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 I'm probably in the minority, at least on this thread, but I see more value in these playoff type, must win now games and actually making the playoffs then I do in having a team tank for a better draft pick. There's just too much that can go wrong as opposed to what can go right. Example: The Bengals tanked out and got Burrow, great pick, QB of the future, face of the franchise....he's out for the year with a serious knee injury and who knows how he'll come back from it? There's also the chance that you tank, get a high pick with a great prospect and he busts. Tanking increases the odds of getting a franchise QB but we don't know for sure that Coach Rivera won't sign a free agent veteran QB this offseason? I'd sooner see the culture of WiNNING football games be established. I'm sure you old timers like me remember Joe Gibbs starting out 0-5 as a head coach and then taking that team to an 8-8 finish and then crediting that turnaround in that non-playoff season as the foundation for all of the Super Bowl success. RR seems like a guy who wants to win now and I know his players want to win now. For those of you who disagree and don't think winning the division this year would be huge for the future of this young team, just think how stoked you'll be as a fan if we win today and then go on to win the division, host a playoff game and POTENTIALLY, win a playoff game. This franchise will have a whole new glow to it and the players will be believers in themselves and the coaching staff moving forward. Lets focus on winning today and trying to win every game moving forward no matter how bad people may think this team and division is. Happy Thanksgiving ES Nation....Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, London Kev said: This has always puzzled me. Is there really such a thing as tanking? The players don't gain anything from losing, so who does, the coaches, the owner, how does it work? Does the head coach decide to tank and then calls bad plays or sits his better players so that the team is more likely to lose? Or is it the owner that decides and then tells the coaches to start throwing games? Or is it just a term that sums up the wishes of some fans, but is not really an actual thing? You never gain anything for losing over here so tanking is not an option, in fact I would guess that most people in England have never heard of the word in that context. It's an alien concept to me and I don't like it (but understand the reasoning behind it), but is it a real, actual thing? Players and coached play and coach to win. So I agree with you there. But I am not convinced tanking is not effective. It gave us Chase Young where the Giants ended up with a tackle who is really struggling. It worked for Miami who have improved dramatically in just a year. I can't blame a fan for actually rooting for his/her team to win. And obviously tanking does not always work. But to me in May I won't give a damn if we lost to Dallas if it mean we are picking 4th and they are picking 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Players and coached play and coach to win. So I agree with you there. But I am not convinced tanking is not effective. It gave us Chase Young where the Giants ended up with a tackle who is really struggling. It worked for Miami who have improved dramatically in just a year. I can't blame a fan for actually rooting for his/her team to win. And obviously tanking does not always work. But to me in May I won't give a damn if we lost to Dallas if it mean we are picking 4th and they are picking 9th. It hasn't worked for Miami yet...Tua looked pretty confused last week. Daniel Jones isn't doing much for NYG and he's a high pick. Here's another one for ya; Carson Wentz. This dude was supposed to be the next Johnny Unitas in Philly and he has regressed to the point where he is very close to being benched for a rookie. I speak from great experience as a fan when it comes to tanking, I'm a lifelong 76ers fan and tanking hasn't gotten them anywhere other than a couple of should be superstars who have potential. The Sixers blew most of the picks they accrued by tanking because of bad picks and terrible coaching. Tanking can get you players for sure but you need so many other pieces to make it all work....good front office, coaching staff, chemistry on the field, good health (avoiding injuries), etc..... I just can't see advocating for tanking when winning the division is within reach. I know we aren't winning the SB this year but we are building a culture that needs to learn how to win...that's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoshuaj Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, London Kev said: This has always puzzled me. Is there really such a thing as tanking? It’s bored, couch potato, fanspeak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: It hasn't worked for Miami yet...Tua looked pretty confused last week. Daniel Jones isn't doing much for NYG and he's a high pick. Here's another one for ya; Carson Wentz. This dude was supposed to be the next Johnny Unitas in Philly and he has regressed to the point where he is very close to being benched for a rookie. I speak from great experience as a fan when it comes to tanking, I'm a lifelong 76ers fan and tanking hasn't gotten them anywhere other than a couple of should be superstars who have potential. The Sixers blew most of the picks they accrued by tanking because of bad picks and terrible coaching. Tanking can get you players for sure but you need so many other pieces to make it all work....good front office, coaching staff, chemistry on the field, good health (avoiding injuries), etc..... I just can't see advocating for tanking when winning the division is within reach. I know we aren't winning the SB this year but we are building a culture that needs to learn how to win...that's important. I can't argue if you want your team to win a division. But you can't just cherry pick high picks that didn't pan out because there are tons of examples the other way. We all know the odds increase with draft position. Me? I want no part of being remembered as the champs of the worst division in the history of sports, only to get bounced in the first round and end up picking 19th instead of top 5-7. 1 hour ago, LLandryistheshiz said: Should I be rooting for the Lions or Texans in regards to us having the best draft pick? I would think Texans so more teams have more wins, but I’d say more likely lions find a way to take a QB the Houston? help me find a rooting interest lol Yeah I was thinking the same thing but Houston could very well entertain offers to trade back. I'm just rooting for the teams with records close to ours so that means I'm rooting for Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I can't argue if you want your team to win a division. But you can't just cherry pick high picks that didn't pan out because there are tons of examples the other way. We all know the odds increase with draft position. Me? I want no part of being remembered as the champs of the worst division in the history of sports, only to get bounced in the first round and end up picking 19th instead of top 5-7. LOL....no one will remember or care about who wins this division. Think of it this way, IF we win the division this year and then go on to win the Super Bowl in 2023 maybe this year would be the start of it all? You surely would want to be a part of that I would think? Maybe I'm just so sick of losing that the thought of winning games is appetizing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I can't argue if you want your team to win a division. But you can't just cherry pick high picks that didn't pan out because there are tons of examples the other way. We all know the odds increase with draft position. Me? I want no part of being remembered as the champs of the worst division in the history of sports, only to get bounced in the first round and end up picking 19th instead of top 5-7. Yeah I was thinking the same thing but Houston could very well entertain offers to trade back. I'm just rooting for the teams with records close to ours so that means I'm rooting for Houston. The Texans pick belongs to Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: LOL....no one will remember or care about who wins this division. Think of it this way, IF we win the division this year and then go on to win the Super Bowl in 2023 maybe this year would be the start of it all? You surely would want to be a part of that I would think? Maybe I'm just so sick of losing that the thought of winning games is appetizing? If you could show me that momentum carries over from one year to the next you may have something. But sadly there is no evidence of this occurring. So we are left with the choice, a meaningless division title and the 19th pick or not winning the division and picking top 7. And that's not just for the first round, it's every round and that could be significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: Tanking can get you players for sure but you need so many other pieces to make it all work....good front office, coaching staff, chemistry on the field, good health (avoiding injuries), etc..... I agree with this and think it was said perfectly. Teams who don't have these things just lose games. It's not taking. When we have these things (supposedly) we should be trying to build a winning product and have the players buy in. The actual act of winning can do a lot in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sellersfan Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 3 hours ago, KDawg said: Of course it is. The players aren't the ones who tank. And neither are the coaches. They never want to lose. But teams are often compiled in a way that means you aren't going to win many games. You may have talent, but the scheme doesn't fit. You may trade off talent to get draft picks to help you down the line... You may not have had a good option at QB and you are likely to lose games because you couldn't replace them and you embrace that. Tanking could even mean getting rid of older players to develop younger players even if it means you lose games because of it. Tanking is a very real thing. But tanking isn't really done on game day. Yep! Players don’t tank because it affects bonuses and incentives. Players also don’t risk life and limb weekly in order to lose. This extends to coaches as well. Hundreds of hours in preparing, sacrifice family time etc. They just aren’t wired that way and wouldn’t be in the NFL planning to lose. However, at some point a team is going to decide their season is over. That is when you rest starters and vets who are banged up. Give your backups and PS players a chance to see what you got. It’s not tanking per say, it is more like reviewing your entire roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 I think the Jets, Jags and Bengals might end up the clear top 3 in the draft by a couple of games. Both top QBs then the Bengals go either Sewell or Chase to reunite with Burrow. The way the next batch of teams are looking we could end up with a lot of teams on the same record, likely 5-11 or 6-10. I hope Dallas bring back Dak, Falcons can’t easily move on from Ryan in 2021. Miami and the Chargers set at QB. Feels like we get a real shot at Wilson, or Lance, only screwed by winning the division . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 33 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: If you could show me that momentum carries over from one year to the next you may have something. But sadly there is no evidence of this occurring. So we are left with the choice, a meaningless division title and the 19th pick or not winning the division and picking top 7. And that's not just for the first round, it's every round and that could be significant. Winning cultures breed winning, there are several teams where there's evidence of this, it's what every coach strives for, establishing a winning culture to build for future success. Young teams need to learn how to win and believe they can do it. "You play to win the game"...Herm Edwards. You don't play to get a higher draft pick, that stuff takes care of itself. In all seriousness, there are tons of ways to get a QB you can win with...it starts with the coaches taking the talent they have and establishing a winning culture. I love what Miami is doing, winning games with a crazy aggressive defense and not worrying about who the QB is. They are starting to believe they can win and it's happening. I'd argue they're a better team with Fitzpatrick then they are with Tua right now. My point is that, once a team learns how to win, they expect to win and they find ways to win rather then finding ways to lose. It's important to learn how to win rather than wating around for a potential savior in the draft that may or may not make you a winning franchise. Just my opinion based on playing sports and watching them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sellersfan Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 52 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: I think the Jets, Jags and Bengals might end up the clear top 3 in the draft by a couple of games. Both top QBs then the Bengals go either Sewell or Chase to reunite with Burrow. The way the next batch of teams are looking we could end up with a lot of teams on the same record, likely 5-11 or 6-10. I hope Dallas bring back Dak, Falcons can’t easily move on from Ryan in 2021. Miami and the Chargers set at QB. Feels like we get a real shot at Wilson, or Lance, only screwed by winning the division . I agree. It’s the second tier of bad teams that worry me. Atlanta,Carolina,Detroit,San Fran. Each of them could take a Wilson or Lance and let them learn for a year behind the starter. Looking at those teams schedules it is Atlanta that worries me. I think we could have an either/or scenario for Wilson/Lance. I would prefer if we had the choice as opposed to settling with whats leftover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Tomb Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 10 hours ago, OVCChairman said: Played 2 plays at LG, got his leg rolled up on and been on IR since Oh, that's right! His stint was so short I forgot about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovi Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Ugh. As much as I love seeing us win we can’t even lose when it’s right. Lol. Still I’m feeling better about Gibson every week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 I'm here for the catapult. So who do we like more between Trask, Lance, or Jones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted November 27, 2020 Author Share Posted November 27, 2020 So we went from 5 to a wild-card game after beating the cowgirls. At this point it looks like Alex is going to be your QB next year as long he stays healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I can't argue if you want your team to win a division. But you can't just cherry pick high picks that didn't pan out because there are tons of examples the other way. We all know the odds increase with draft position. Me? I want no part of being remembered as the champs of the worst division in the history of sports, only to get bounced in the first round and end up picking 19th instead of top 5-7. Yeah I was thinking the same thing but Houston could very well entertain offers to trade back. I'm just rooting for the teams with records close to ours so that means I'm rooting for Houston. What's worse... winning the worst division in history... or losing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 This couldn't wait until tomorrow? Damn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Well, if want that franchise QB; we are going to have trade up. What players we have that we can trade for picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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