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What will Ron's excuse be this week?


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2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Philly ties cincy and somehow gained ground on everyone in the division.

 

Philly is completely ****ed. Wentz has been awful, they've failed to beat either of the bad teams they've played, and got dubbed by the one good team. They're older, expensive, and terrible. That's a bad combination. 

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So, I just listened to Ron's presser.  He was pretty adamant he though this was the right decision for this team right now.  I remain convinced the injury excuse is bogus and a lie.  

 

I think he has absolutely no confidence in Dwayne's ability not to **** the bed and force something stupid, and I think he's trying desperately to protect Dwayne from that situation.  Because throwing another INT when trying to get back into it would just be piling on.  I think he might be trying to protect Dwayne from himself, from his teammates and to some extent, the fans.  (Though based on one of his answers, he seemed less concerned about the fan "noise."  Said, something like, "that's just what it is.  Noise.")

 

I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's what I think he's trying to do.  And since he has been through this with one young QB, and it worked out pretty well for him, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  For now.  But truthfully, this is something I would have KILLED Jay Gruden over, so it would be completely hypocritical of me not to say that it is bothersome.  But after listening to the answer, at least it seems well thought out.  And I guess that's something.  And again, I think the injury excuse is a convenient lie.  You have to read between the lines about what he's saying about Dwayne and his development to piece it all together.  Because he isn't going to come out and say, "Yeah, I didn't try and get another possession because I thought our idiot QB was going to force a throw into triple coverage and throw his 4th pick of the game." 

 

He also said pretty bluntly that this type of approach is finite, it's not something long term, I can't remember the phrase he used, but it was clear this is not the way he WANTS to play it, but it's what he feel he has to do.

 

Which is probably a HUGE indictment on Haskins.  But that's for a different thread.  Or 5.  

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9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And since he has been through this with one young QB, and it worked out pretty well for him, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. 


I get what you’re saying, but I have to point out that Cam was an instant superstar. He was a work in progress but even as a raw “running QB” with one JC championship and one season and championship for Auburn, he broke an NFL rookie QB record immediately by throwing for 400+ yards in weeks 1 and 2 back to back. He showed out immediately.

 

I’m not sure Rivera’s ever dealt with such a project that had so much invested in him, like he has now with Haskins. There’s no reason to think he (or any coach) would know how to get Haskins to succeed bc it may not be possible. I know you know that...I just felt compelled to point out the difference between a guy like Cam and a guy like Haskins. I do believe Rivera will continue to do what he thinks is best for Haskins and the team and that’s all I can ask for even if I don’t always get it. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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Dunno if someone said it, but i think Rivera is sending a message to the team.

 

Kinda:  ''I'm gonna use time out when i'll believe in you. Now i'm kinda saving you from looking silly, prove me wrong, prove me i should beleive you'll do somethings, then i'll use time out, for now STFU and hide''

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We have to accept the reality that Haskins is in a position he is not ready for, but at the same there is zero Plan B.  Winning 5-6 games with Kyle Allen as your QB does nothing for the long term or short term.  If the team had gone out and signed a bonafide NFL caliber QB that could lead a team to maybe 9-7ish?  Then that would be different.   Also, I still am not quite sure what the situation is with Alex Smith as of today.  He is out there practicing, he is on the depth chart.  Is the coaching staff just humoring his "quest to get back" by keeping him around?  Has the front office told the coaching staff that for the sake of contract/money rammifications he needs to be on the roster for now? 

 

I think the entire "We are running with Haskins" conversation changes if/when(?) Alex Smith is able to play football again, assuming the team hasn't lost so many games by that point that it doesn't matter.


I know I am making an assumption with Smith, and he still very likely never steps foot into an actual game ever again, but if he is cleared to, and the coaches think he is performing the best in practice AND the team is still mathematically in contention?  How do you not make that switch if Haskins is not showing enough progress?

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10 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:


I get what you’re saying, but I have to point out that Cam was an instant superstar. He was a work in progress but even as a raw “running QB” with one JC championship and one season and championship for Auburn, he broke an NFL rookie QB record immediately by throwing for 400+ yards in weeks 1 and 2 back to back. He showed out immediately.

 

I’m not sure Rivera’s ever dealt with such a project that had so much invested in him, like he has now with Haskins. There’s no reason to think he (or any coach) would know how to get Haskins to succeed bc it may not be possible. I know you know that...I just felt compelled to point out the difference between a guy like Cam and a guy like Haskins. I do believe Rivera will continue to do what he thinks is best for Haskins and the team and that’s all I can ask for even if I don’t always get it. 

Well, Cam was the #1 overall pick for a reason.  And Dwayne is not Cam.  Doesn't play like him at all.  (Side note: We played Baker, #1 overall pick in the 2018 draft, and Kyler Murray, the first overall pick in the 2019 draft in back to back weeks. I just realized that and found it interesting)

 

I think what I'm pointing out is at least Ron's been through it, so it's not new to him.  The decisions he makes will be different, but he at least has the experience of building the team.  The Panthers were 2-14 the year before he got there.  He had a bad team, with a young QB, and had to figure things out.   The buttons will be different, but at least he is being thoughtful about it and there is a plan.

 

And I absolutely know there might not be any way to fix Haskins.  He might not be fixable.  

 

If I was to bet right now, and I had 100 chips, I would lay them this way:

 

40 chips: Dwayne is not on the team in 2021. New vet or high draft pick is starting.  

40 chips: Dwayne is on the team, and there is an honest to God QB competition between him and another vet not named Kyle Allen.

20 chips: Dwayne is the named starter going into camp.  

7 minutes ago, -JB- said:

This is getting ugly really fast.  1-15 is possible.

It's week 3.  So, I think we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

 

And we have Dallas twice, the Eagles one more time, and the Giants twice on the schedule.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if we end up 5-11 (not so good!) and all of the wins are in-division.  The Eagles and Giants are terrible.  We might be bad, but we've already beaten the Eagles once.  And they're getting worse.  And you never know with Dallas.  You never know.  So, a split would be possible.  

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4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think people are overblowing the not calling the TOs issue. We had no chance of coming back and its better to keep guys healthy then risk injury in a futile comeback attempt. The team did NOT give up after being down 17-7, we rallied to take the lead.

 

Haskins had a bad day but there were some good throws made. Its going to be like this for a while. QB development isn't some steady linear curve. He'll play well, then he'll struggle. Hopefully he eventually learns to be consistent. He's got this season to keep at it.

 

Sweat was a baller today even with Young out. D overall played well but couldn't stop the run in the 4th quarter and that was also a big difference maker.

 

Several games today and last week where if the teams were being coached by Ron Rivera they would have given up.

 

Winning is a habit. 

 

You have to still teach players that you keep playing to win the game until the clock reads 0:00.

 

He has treated the last two games like it is preseason.

 

He should let us in on the plan... that the team is playing for a chance to have a high draft pick. 

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7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

40 chips: Dwayne is not on the team in 2021. New vet or high draft pick is starting.  

40 chips: Dwayne is on the team, and there is an honest to God QB competition between him and another vet not named Kyle Allen.

20 chips: Dwayne is the named starter going into camp.  

e.  We might be bad, but we've already beaten the Eagles once.  And they're getting worse.  And you never know with Dallas.  You never know.  So, a split would be possible.  

 

Oh I like this...

 

I'll play.

 

10 chips - Dwayne is on the roster and is the QB.

30 chips - Allen is the QB, Dwayne is no longer on the roster.

30 chips - They go after a big name QB

40 chips - (Conditional to draft position) They draft a QB high in the first round. 

 

In the case that our pick is somehow too high for a QB, but Dwayne's trajectory remains what it is:

 

10 chips - Dwayne is on the roster and QB (I don't think Haskins is on the roster if he's not the starter)

50 chips - Allen is the QB

40 chips - They go after a big name vet. 

3 minutes ago, WilberMarshall said:

 

 

 

He should let us in on the plan... that the team is playing for a chance to have a high draft pick. 

 

I think he's said it without saying it.

 

But let me amend your statement a touch...

 

The team is letting Haskins play determine whether we are playing for a high draft pick or a playoff run.

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5 minutes ago, WilberMarshall said:

 

Several games today and last week where if the teams were being coached by Ron Rivera they would have given up.

 

Winning is a habit. 

 

You have to still teach players that you keep playing to win the game until the clock reads 0:00.

 

He has treated the last two games like it is preseason.

 

He should let us in on the plan... that the team is playing for a chance to have a high draft pick. 

Those teams that came back actually have legitimate NFL talent on offense. We don't outside of McLaurin and maybe Gibson.

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6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

10 chips - Dwayne is on the roster and is the QB.

30 chips - Allen is the QB, Dwayne is no longer on the roster.

30 chips - They go after a big name QB

40 chips - (Conditional to draft position) They draft a QB high in the first round. 

You can bet as many chips as you want but this is 110 chips. :P 

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I'm pretty sure that none of us have coached in the NFL and have no idea what Rivera is thinking.  In Week 1, he said to trust the process.  This is part of that and unfortunately the painful part.  If they were executing and winning, I'm pretty sure that thought process would've been different.  

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I generally thought the idea was to save the timeouts for after the first potential score. When you're down two scores, the only two ways to really get the ball back without the other team bleeding the clock is: (1) an onside kick; or (2) to use the timeouts. As an onside kicks now fails 97% of the time, it at least gives a plausible chance, even though scoring twice seems unlikely with this team.

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1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

You mean in week 1? 

 

Yes.  When they got the lead and were hammering Wentz, Rivera used Barber as the battering ram RB to get tough yards and chew the clock.  I would love to see Gibson and McKissic just pounding away at a defense.

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:


I get what you’re saying, but I have to point out that Cam was an instant superstar. He was a work in progress but even as a raw “running QB” with one JC championship and one season and championship for Auburn, he broke an NFL rookie QB record immediately by throwing for 400+ yards in weeks 1 and 2 back to back. He showed out immediately.

 

I’m not sure Rivera’s ever dealt with such a project that had so much invested in him, like he has now with Haskins. There’s no reason to think he (or any coach) would know how to get Haskins to succeed bc it may not be possible. I know you know that...I just felt compelled to point out the difference between a guy like Cam and a guy like Haskins. I do believe Rivera will continue to do what he thinks is best for Haskins and the team and that’s all I can ask for even if I don’t always get it. 

 

Yea, I'm starting to think Rivera is a little arrogant, as if he created Cam from a Haskins. Cam was never even close to as bad as Haskins has been. Heck he threw for 4,000 yards and rushed for 700 more as a rookie. Rivera was just fortunate to have the #1 pick and get a qb the caliber of Cam. Maybe that's why he's trying to lose this year, to try that again. But I'm starting to not believe much of what Rivera says. None of it makes sense and is detached from reality. 

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1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, I just listened to Ron's presser.  He was pretty adamant he though this was the right decision for this team right now.  I remain convinced the injury excuse is bogus and a lie.  

 

I think he has absolutely no confidence in Dwayne's ability not to **** the bed and force something stupid, and I think he's trying desperately to protect Dwayne from that situation.  Because throwing another INT when trying to get back into it would just be piling on.  I think he might be trying to protect Dwayne from himself, from his teammates and to some extent, the fans.  (Though based on one of his answers, he seemed less concerned about the fan "noise."  Said, something like, "that's just what it is.  Noise.")

 

I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's what I think he's trying to do.  And since he has been through this with one young QB, and it worked out pretty well for him, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  For now.  But truthfully, this is something I would have KILLED Jay Gruden over, so it would be completely hypocritical of me not to say that it is bothersome.  But after listening to the answer, at least it seems well thought out.  And I guess that's something.  And again, I think the injury excuse is a convenient lie.  You have to read between the lines about what he's saying about Dwayne and his development to piece it all together.  Because he isn't going to come out and say, "Yeah, I didn't try and get another possession because I thought our idiot QB was going to force a throw into triple coverage and throw his 4th pick of the game." 

 

He also said pretty bluntly that this type of approach is finite, it's not something long term, I can't remember the phrase he used, but it was clear this is not the way he WANTS to play it, but it's what he feel he has to do.

 

Which is probably a HUGE indictment on Haskins.  But that's for a different thread.  Or 5.  


This is it. Annoys me people like Sheehan don’t dig deeper into decisions. Kind of tells you how fragile Ron thinks Dwayne’s self confidence is

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2 hours ago, drowland said:

I thought Ron should have challenged the PI called on McLaurin.  I know those rarely get overturned but if it was truly just an arm swipe maybe they do.  That lead to another pick with Haskins behind the sticks.  At least use those TOs for something to try and help out.

 

Just an FYI, but these plays cannot be challenged anymore.

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10 minutes ago, SAli457180 said:

 

Yes.  When they got the lead and were hammering Wentz, Rivera used Barber as the battering ram RB to get tough yards and chew the clock.  I would love to see Gibson and McKissic just pounding away at a defense.

Still confused. What do you mean by “the thought process would have been different” had we been winning in week 1 (we were) and executing (we were)

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