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Next Day Thread (Same Day Edition): WFT vs. Arizona


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6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Here's what I want to know -

Arizona was able to beat our defensive pressure and thrive, basically by throwing quick passes.

Why can't our offense learn to do the same, considering our weak OL ?

We don't have the weapons at WR that can get open that quick nor do we have a QB who is very decisive or accurate right now.

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2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

One flaw with that stat is it only counts the time on actual passes - not how long the QB held the ball on sacks

 

Okay, he got sacked 4 times.  How much more will it add to time to throw?  Even if you add 10 seconds(which is unlikely), it would be 2.42.  Further, you will need to do this to every player.  So everybody's  average goes up. 

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29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wow, I think we actually match up well to the Browns even though am not sold that this is a good team. 

 

Our DL vs their OL and RBs should be interesting.  Their OL looks good and their RBs are excellent.  If we're down 2 scores in the 4th they'll wear us down though. But Young

and Sweat should be able to get out on Baker when he runs those boots.

 

Our OL vs their DL I don't like.  Browns are weak at LB and safety so there's an area we can exploit in the passing game.  But they are getting some guys back healthy this week.  

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1 hour ago, EmirOfShmo said:

Both weeks I have not understood Turner's 1st half play calling. It seems disjointed & random. And didn't seem to ease Haskins in to a comfortable start. 

The earlier quote on here from Haskins saying something like "We were expecting A & B defense but they did E defense. Once we figured that out were able to move the ball." That's on Turner & his assistants. It took them a half to figure it out.

We have a rookie (talented) OC with a rookie QB. It's going to take time for both. 

 

Edit: And I have to add this: Sonny used to be able to explain what they were trying to do offensively in the 1st 3 minutes. It was so "here's what they're trying to do & why". I so miss those days. At least you could understand what they were trying to do.Now...not so much. 


Turner seems like a chip off the old block to me. Never liked the hire. Offense has no rhythm or consistency at all. 

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6 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

Our DL vs their OL and RBs should be interesting.  Their OL looks good and their RBs are excellent.  If we're down 2 scores in the 4th they'll wear us down though. But Young

and Sweat should be able to get out on Baker when he runs those boots.

 

Our OL vs their DL I don't like.  Browns are weak at LB and safety so there's an area we can exploit in the passing game.  But they are getting some guys back healthy this week.  

 

Baker seems willing to hold on to the ball to make a big play somewhat like Wentz.

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1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Logan Thomas had some good and some bad, as usual.  He's clearly somewhat talented but raw.  Very raw.  He's struggling to disengage from physical defenders.  This is kind of the Josh Doctson syndrome.  Right now Thomas profiles as a #2 TE, unless he finds a better way to release into routes and hand fight, then he's staying as a #2 TE. 

 

He is who we thought he was, not a TE1.  I was amazed there was any expectations for him.  Having said that, he should have 2 TDs this season.  If he can do anything, he can use his size and be a red zone threat.  If you put it out of the reach of a 6'6" guy, cant blame Thomas.  He's probably more of a situational guy, rather than a guy that should be getting volume snaps.  But when Baugh and Sprinkle are your competition, Thomas is as good we got.

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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Baker seems willing to hold on to the ball to make a big play somewhat like Wentz.

He ain't playing behind Wentz's OL though.  When Baker has the playaction going and gets his feet set he's accurate.  Thing with him though is he always doesn't see the underneath coverage so you can pick him off.   But they need to keep him in the pocket and get him throwing flat footed.  He doesn't always set up in the pocket.  

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5 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

I still want to know how our first punt didn't draw a roughing flag?  It was a textbook call...

Because they called holding on our guy and I guess they thought he pulled the defender into Way.  

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I think we just need to run a up tempo/nk huddle spread really. We are so anemic on offense that its the only time we move the ball when we do so with a sense of urgency. Even when we sped the tempo up early we started getting successful. Also. We have yet to hand the ball off to the guy motioning one time. Im not sure how much is the offensive scheme and if route design gets ppl open for real. We know Kyle's scheme and Jay's did. 

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Scott Turner seems to game plan the opposite of what you should do for a  young QB behind a mediocre O-line.  All the up tempo quick passes never seem in the plans until the second half.  I remember with Kyle Shanahan, he had RG3 doing that kind of stuff as part of the "first 20 plays of a game on offense are scripted" type thing. It allowed the young QB to get a rhythm going out of the gate, get comfortable, get opposing defense on their heels.   It seems like with Tuner it is the opposite and only goes to that kind of scheme when he is likely panicking about how the offense is doing. 

Edited by NoCalMike
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Arizona's offense showed that unlike the Eagles, they could adjust to a good D-line when the rest of the defense is average to mediocre.  This is going to be an issue going forward until the rest of the defense is upgraded.  The Eagles failed because their O-line was banged up, but also because they didn't seem to ever adjust to the 'Skins pass rush becoming more effective as the game went on.  "Wentz drops back and flings it downfield" stopped working and they didn't adjust to get the ball out of his hands quicker.  The Cards pretty much used that quicker style all game long, but it is not surprise given that Murray himself is still a young QB and pretty much operating under the 3 stop drop, find your guy at top of his route, if he aint there, take off kind of scheme..

 

I don't want to hear anymore about how fast Troy Apke is.  Until he gets a better feel for the game, or his instincts mature, his speed is nullified by  never being in a good position to make a play.   So far in the open field he is awful as well.

 

Two weeks of game film, Scott Turner should start gameplans out with what Haskins has done well.  That is how you start the play calling, and then go from there. Not vice versa.

 

Gibson, he has the tools.  He is still learning the X's & O's, but I thought he looked remarkably better this week.  If his improvement trajectory is like this for another week or so, he is going to be a very fun RB to watch come Halloween time.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Two weeks of game film, Scott Turner should start gameplans out with what Haskins has done well.  That is how you start the play calling, and then go from there. Not vice versa.

I wonder how much this is affecting Haskins. He looks much better after a few drives. Im guessing this is the Work-in-Progress Rivera refers to.

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3 hours ago, KDawg said:


And this is why I don’t think the timeout situation is something to dwell on. Lots of factors. Fans/media will, though. Coping mechanism. Something to pick apart with a franchise that has been poor.

 

And Rivera just took a lot of negative attention off the team. They’re going to get their share, too, of course. But Rivera is now going to shoulder more of it. Done on purpose or not, it was a chess move. 

I don’t think Ron is overly concerned about wins and losses this year and the non timeouts imo were a statement to his own team they he wasn’t happy with their compete and execution and he didn’t think they were deserving of the opportunity. I’m ok with. It was a good message.

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Saw the game today. We were manhandled. Arizona was superior in every facet of the game.

 

What worries me is that absolute flacidness this team starts games with. This one was over by halftime, really.

Haskins' stats were awful, pathetic, until the start of the 4th quarter. The running game never got into a rythm (come back AP!).

The Cards were never in any danger of losing this game. Luck had no part in this play.

 

Let's be honest here: Arizona is a much better team than we are. Specially their QB Murray.

Now I understand why he was picked first in last year's draft. The difference between Haskins is huge!

It seems Murray will be able to keep Arizona in any game.

 

Can't say the same about us, sadly,

 

 

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My take:

Team had WAY too many mistakes in the first quarter.  Like last week, they started out sluggish.  You cannot keep giving up a ton of points to start the game.   This is becoming a disturbing pattern and honestly... this is a coaching issue.  Team needs to be much more focused.

Offensive line was atrocious.  Pass blocking was particularly bad.

Haskins needs to get the ball out quicker.   His pocket awareness and accuracy need to improve significantly.   He is a very pedestrian QB at this time.  I think he has potential to be a decent starter, but never a great QB.

Terry McLaurin is a stud.

Chase Young disappears in stretches.  Has difficulty disengaging from tackles. 

Secondary is a sieve.  Apke is horrible.  At the very least, he's supposed to be fast and should never get be beat deep like that.

Zero excuse for fumbling the football on a kickoff return.  Just sloppy careless football.

 

Arizona is a talented team, but we let them win an easy one.

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O overall needs to make a big step. Based on the names, we were already sceptic but it's not good enough right now. O line can't stop the opponent, Haskins is way to streaky, skill players struggle to beat 1v1 and playcalling is not helping. 

 

Biggest issue might be that Haskins his style doesn't fit the teams players. I think he is best from within the pocket with deeper routes. But for that you need clean pocket and receivers beating 1v1 down field. I agree with most that quick passing game would help some of the o line issues...but not sure if fits Haskins well. Accurate quick release doesn't seem to be his ammo. 

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17 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

He didn’t wanna he here because Ron didn’t want to extend him.

Yet hes playing for the Seahawks without an extension lol. It would have taken way too much money to keep him around, the fact that we aren't a good organization just drove up his price. 

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I hate to have to do this AGAIN, but another instance of first year head coach, learning exactly what he has and doesn't have with the personnel on the team.  Similar to Gruden, Rivera is hired into a situation he didn't pick the QB, and if Haskins aint it, there is no backup waiting in the wings.  I am not counting Alex Smith for the time being for obvious reasons.   The front office went and did it all over again. They drafted a guy they were enamored with instead of talking to football people about drafting a franchise QB.  If Haskins eventually develops one day, it is not going to be for another season or two, but what coach in their right mind is going to be that patient with their starting QB?

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I was as high as anyone when it comes to Haskins’ college tape (mainly, his progression throughout the course of the season - he was a very different, much better, QB by the end of it), and I was as high as anyone going into this season about him. I haven’t posted much lately, but I made that clear in the Haskins’ thread one of the few times I did recently. 
 

But, man, is he making me look stupid. I mean, I feel like a total dumbass right now and that I have absolutely no eye for anything player-related. 
 

He’s just off in every way. Even his completions come with a myriad of issues starting with footwork and ending with slight inaccuracies. It’s frustrating. 
 

I don’t know, but I just think he’s way better than this. He can’t be this bad, can he? I’m stunned. :( 
 

He’s got a ton of things going against him, so I’m hoping it’s just the combination of it all (previous organizational instability per the norm here, brand new offense, awful Oline, lack of weapons, etc...) causing this, but there are bad things he’s doing that are totally on him. It’s really sad to see. 
 

Part of me wants to believe that maybe a lot of it is him actually correcting any issues he’s had in the past, so the process of it is making him look even more disjointed than usual and is causing him to be inaccurate as he gets accustomed to moving a certain way and throwing a certain way. But I realize how naive that likely is. I hope we see a progression from him on the same level of what he did in college and even like what he did last season towards the end. It’s very possible he just takes a bit to get going. 
 

But, yeah, it hurts to watch right now. It’s simply not good enough and it’s certainly diminishing my previous thoughts on his ceiling. 😕 

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Lose out and draft the best available QB

Snyder gets bounced and Bozos buys the team

Pick a F-ing name

Profit

 

Seriously Haskins is not and never has been the answer.  Literally the only play he can make is the slant, a throw any NFL QB can make.  Terrible pocket presence, inaccuracy that has and always will remain an issue, and a total lack of awareness.  He is in his 2nd year, at some point "he's young and will develop" is off the table. That time is near.  

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
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