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The Washington Defensive Line Thread


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14 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Why does it seem like the fan base is always more forward thinking than the actual team?? Seemed obvious we had a surplus on the DL. Is RK going to retire here?? Did no one want these guys?? Am I naive?

 

I think so.  You just have to look around trhe league.  trades are are rare, and you don't do them just to do them

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We don't have the luxury to keep all of them and let's be honest, neither Allen nor Payne have been the dominant force we hoped they would be. Payne has been stout against the run but from someone drafted just outside the top 10 you would expect a bit more. Allen has his moments but he also gets walked back a couple of yards in the rushing game a few times per game and as a pass rusher he is just okay - nothing special. It's also his 4th year and he didn't declare early so we have to question how much upside there is left.

I don't think we would be off a lot worse if we started Settle and Ioannidis instead of Payne and Allen. I mean Settle and Ioannidis as of today have 2 sacks more than the other two combined and one of them is a backup and the other one is on IR since week 4. So I think I'd rather extend those two, save some money and invest that money elsewhere. This was supposed to be the year that our D-line was dominating. It didn't happen so far and we have too many holes elsewhere to put our money on the hope that they will someday look like the Steelers D-line does today. I trust our coaches here to make the right call but personally, I would be okay trading them or not extending them.

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8 minutes ago, Panninho said:

We don't have the luxury to keep all of them and let's be honest, neither Allen nor Payne have been the dominant force we hoped they would be. Payne has been stout against the run but from someone drafted just outside the top 10 you would expect a bit more. Allen has his moments but he also gets walked back a couple of yards in the rushing game a few times per game and as a pass rusher he is just okay - nothing special. It's also his 4th year and he didn't declare early so we have to question how much upside there is left.

I don't think we would be off a lot worse if we started Settle and Ioannidis instead of Payne and Allen. I mean Settle and Ioannidis as of today have 2 sacks more than the other two combined and one of them is a backup and the other one is on IR since week 4. So I think I'd rather extend those two, save some money and invest that money elsewhere. This was supposed to be the year that our D-line was dominating. It didn't happen so far and we have too many holes elsewhere to put our money on the hope that they will someday look like the Steelers D-line does today. I trust our coaches here to make the right call but personally, I would be okay trading them or not extending them.

 

Long term I think we'll have to let either Ioannidis or Allen go.  Ioannidis is signed through the end of 22 and Allen through 21.  A second option would be to let Payne go but since he is 23 whereas Ioannidis is 26 and Allen 25.   If you can keep Settle fairly cheap after next season, I think you do so as he is quality depth.  If he is not cheap than I think you let him go.

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On 11/16/2020 at 11:16 AM, philibusters said:

 

Long term I think we'll have to let either Ioannidis or Allen go.  Ioannidis is signed through the end of 22 and Allen through 21.  A second option would be to let Payne go but since he is 23 whereas Ioannidis is 26 and Allen 25.   If you can keep Settle fairly cheap after next season, I think you do so as he is quality depth.  If he is not cheap than I think you let him go.

If I'm Settle I'm outta here unless they make room for me to start and they pay me. I think Ion has been our best DT when he plays, great motor and good pressure. He reminds me of a poor mans Dave Butz from the 80's. I would bet that Settle has a market but that's just a guess.

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3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

If I'm Settle I'm outta here unless they make room for me to start and they pay me. I think Ion has been our best DT when he plays, great motor and good pressure. He reminds me of a poor mans Dave Butz from the 80's. I would bet that Settle has a market but that's just a guess.

There’s a chance Settle may be willing to sign a short term extension now to get a meaningful signing bonus

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9 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

If I'm Settle I'm outta here unless they make room for me to start and they pay me. I think Ion has been our best DT when he plays, great motor and good pressure. He reminds me of a poor mans Dave Butz from the 80's. I would bet that Settle has a market but that's just a guess.


This is part of what people miss when they look at our defensive line. 
 

I’m not sure Ioan is any better than Payne or Allen, to be honest, in an overall sense. What he is, though, is aggressive and a better pass rusher than both of them. His presence gels much better with the linebackers playing back on their heels. That aggressiveness has served him very well. 
 

If we don’t improve our backer play with more downhill and coverage backers this offseason then the answer is to find more aggressive defensive tackles. 
 

Payne is a very good hole plugger. But he’s not as big as an anchor as other guys who play 1-tech and finds himself getting moved a bit.
 

Allen is kind of a mixture at both and when he flashes he flashes. 

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I kind of like the idea someone else above me said. Keep Payne because he’s younger, and let Allen walk. Nothing against Allen - I like him as a player and leader - just think he’ll cost too much in a position group we’re anticipating paying handsomely down the line.

 

The core d-line group (minus Kerrigan) will have one more year here together. Maybe some improved linebacker play will be boost their play. But as others have said, Allen and Payne aren’t quite what we were hoping for when we got them. 

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If we can only keep 3 of our DT's I think Payne is the odd man out. If we were smart we would sign Settle to a long-term contract and let Payne enter FA (while getting a nice comp pick). Settle does everything Payne does, yet also applies more pressure on the QB and when I watch Settle I see him constantly moving people backwards. I just think while Settle isn't as fast as Payne, he has more length than him, making it easier to drive people back and he also seems to have more natural strength. 

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49 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Payne is underrated. He gets more double teams than any other player on our line. I love settle and think they shouldbbe working on extending him asap, but Payne should be a permanent piece of the defense imho

His production can be replaced by a 3rd or 4th round DT, I mean we have two 5th rounders that are arguably just as good. Im not sure we should invest in Ioannidis, Allen, Payne, and Settle. Thats a lot of money invested into one position where frankly, there's a good chance the production won't match the price it will take to keep our two first round DTs. Of course we should listen to what Payne is asking for in his contract but if its crazy we really shouldn't give in.

 

 

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With better backers Allen and Payne (and Ioan spelling both) is our best interior DL.

 

With our current linebackers, Ioan and Settle are probably a better fit. They are more aggressive and less gap pluggers than the former. 

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Payne has shown during his college (his last bowl game) and NFL career that he can shoot gaps and is more than athletic enough to be very good doing it. Is it a matter of him not being comfortable doing it or is he being told to work to attract and maintain his double team and Ion and Settle they tell them to just hit the gap and fly aggressive to the honey? 

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Settle is 23 and a local kid. Given he is coming off a Day 3 rookie deal, I would think he’d take a nice guaranteed bonus on a 2 or 3 year extension. If he takes a 2 year extension, he can still get a nice fat 3rd contract at 26. It’s a win win. He’s also from Loudon so he would probably love to stay home a bit longer

 

I am taking Payne over Allen because of the run stuffing ability. Payne did have 5 sacks as a rookie NT. He needs to find that pass rush ability once more.

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3 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Payne has shown during his college (his last bowl game) and NFL career that he can shoot gaps and is more than athletic enough to be very good doing it. Is it a matter of him not being comfortable doing it or is he being told to work to attract and maintain his double team and Ion and Settle they tell them to just hit the gap and fly aggressive to the honey? 

That would kind of suck for Payne wouldn't it? Sacks = Money in this league, so telling him to just eat two blockers while other people make plays is doing him a huge disservice. Hes definitely athletic as hell for his size, it really doesn't make sense why he's not a better pass-rusher but it is what it is at this point. 2.5 sacks the last 26 games is kinda not good lol. 

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2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

That would kind of suck for Payne wouldn't it? Sacks = Money in this league, so telling him to just eat two blockers while other people make plays is doing him a huge disservice. Hes definitely athletic as hell for his size, it really doesn't make sense why he's not a better pass-rusher but it is what it is at this point. 2.5 sacks the last 26 games is kinda not good lol. 


3.5. the bogus face mask again Cincy should count. It’s minor to your point but...

 

Yes, I understand it will never count as an official sack, but that’s not how I personally evaluate. The actual stats don’t always mean a lot. Sometimes great plays get negated by bad calls or things completely away from the play. 

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