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Heels Dug In Forever: Die Hard Fans and Snyder


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2 hours ago, KDawg said:

This “I was hoping the bombshell was more” is a disease.

 

You were hoping for more than a franchise chock full of men who allegedly sexual harassed women? If proven true, it’s likely these FIFTEEN women were just a percentage of those that experienced this caveman behavior.

 

This isn’t a “I wanted more” situation. This is ****ing disgusting (IF true).

 

 

 

Yes -- disgusting, embarrassing and intolerable. 

 

It doesn't matter that Dan isn't directly implicated according to the story - although, apparently he enjoys belittling and/or mocking his employees.  Real fine leader he is,....  Any level of sexual harassment over the time period specified is completely unacceptable.  He either allowed it or ignored it -- not sure which is worse.  From my perspective he's completely and forever tainted,....and unfit to run an NFL franchise.  The results on and off the field are proof enough for me at this point.

 

Just to be clear -- this is merely my personal opinion.  Which in the end means nothing.

Edited by Probos
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4 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Why end with that, any time someone messes with anyone on this board we could just filter it. His piece had a different vibe to it so I figured I'd mess with him. 

 

 

Nope, just the lazier "Dan pays you/on Snyder's payroll"-type responses lol...

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

In my eyes, it's absolutely true. Those tweets and the firings/"retiring"just iced it for me.

 

But more to what Kleese was saying--which turns out wasn't about the Tiger King at all 😐 --placing your desire to remain a fan through all of this so far as a badge of honor, I gotta respect that. I didn't look at my desire to do so as anything, really...and surprisingly enough this was maybe the only time I actually ran the idea of saying "that's it" through my head in the entire 40+ years of being a fan. But I knew I'd be watching the games in Sept (if there is a season) and I'd be ecstatic seeing Haskins throw another long TD to Mclaurin, seeing Guice stiff-arm the ever-loving **** out of soeone on a long run, and Chase Young get his first sack. I've always said I'm not a fan of the owner or of the team (except for a very few who have retired), I'm a fan of the Redskins, soon to be the (fill in the blanks). Owners and players come and go, but the team remains.


I realized long ago that I probably care more about this franchise than just about anyone. I mean that literally. Probably more than any player, coach, exec, past or present. Maybe even more than Dan himself. I understand that this is a job for them and that in almost every case they didn’t grow up with a passion for the Washington (insert name here) like I did. 
 

There are a FEW guys over the years that I perceive as having developed that passion. Gibbs for sure. Joey T. Dexter Manley. Maybe Gary Clark. A few others. People who seem to have an adoration for the franchise that rivals mine. That look on Gibbs’ face when we cliched the 1987 Championship vs Vikings— they look is how I feel about this team. He’s one of the only people I’ve ever felt personified that for me and thus why I will always revere Gibbs the way I do. Not only was he the most important figure in our history; he really, really cared. I think he still does. 
 

I am totally fine with people that don’t care to my level. My level probably isn’t healthy. As long as a player, lack, exec gives it their all while they are here; I don’t care if they develop a passion for the organization or not. 
 

So yes, I wear it all as a strange badge of honor. I’m a Cincinnati Reds fan too. And I wear weird badges there as well. Like if it’s game 73 of 162 and it goes extra innings at Dodger Stadium. It’s 2:30am locally on a Wed and I’m still watching. Why? Again, probably not healthy. But there is this weird part of me that thinks “man, if we win the World Series this year I can look back and say I was ALL IN. Remember that seven hour game out in LA back in late May? I watched it ALL!!” 
 

So, each year when game 16 wraps for the Skins, I get this strange sense of accomplishment for having made it through all 16 again. And in most years there are even a few memorable moments/bright spots. And then we get the random ACTUAL good season every 5 years or so and those are pretty fun. For example, I would say 2015-2018 were fairly entertaining seasons. Frustrating for sure, but I was pretty engaged in each of them from start to finish. Was it as fun as 1982-1992? Uh, no. But did I enjoy it? Yes, I did. I was crushed after that loss to the Giants in the season finale in 2016. Very painful. And if I’m still able to feel football pain in January, that’s generally a good sign. 
 

I guess some read the above and label me a “homer.” That’s fine. I’m not really sure what it means. I guess some view anyone who still cares, wears the colors, etc as a mark or a sucker or whatever. But I can promise you I’m not being tricked into anything it. I know darn well what I’m getting into and what the likely outcome is going to be. It’s an active choice I make. Dan Snyder is the worst owner in the NFL and perhaps all of pro sports. If you were hired to argue the contrary in a court of law, I’m honestly not even sure how you’d form that argument. But for whatever reason his presence has not diluted my passion for the team. To the contrary, it might have defiantly emboldened it. 

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Being a fan of this team, and I've been pro name change for years, is like being a heavy marlboro red smoker, which I was for 40 years (I'm 47 next week) until last year.

 

I know it's not good, I'd rather not do it. It doesn't make me feel good almost ever, but I still don't stop.

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I know that I'll still be there every Sunday at 1 watching the team "formerly known as the Redskins" whenever they start playing again. But at this point it seems increasingly its more out of habit than being a die-hard fan anymore and the expectations are so low. If they surprise and finally get to that elusive 11+ win plateau, great. If they don't and finish below .500 again, oh well. All I know is that when the team does finally have another magical year and win the Lombardi, my TV set will be turned off well before Dan Snyder gets handed that Lombardi.

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

That wasn't a day after the sexual harassment ALLEGATIONS...that was a day after the final investigative report was issued. That was 7 months after the allegations.

The timing isn't the point. The difference in the tone of the two statements is what matters. They both pretty much said they weren't aware of what happened and it was regrettable. However, the Cuban statement expressed some level of disgust/regret while Snyder's was merely an anodyne exercise in keeping the opposition lawyers and the press at bay.

 

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

This “I was hoping the bombshell was more” is a disease.

 

You were hoping for more than a franchise chock full of men who allegedly sexual harassed women? If proven true, it’s likely these FIFTEEN women were just a percentage of those that experienced this caveman behavior.

 

This isn’t a “I wanted more” situation. This is ****ing disgusting (IF true).

They're not mutually exclusive. It was/is a disgusting series of events and I wanted more, not because I wanted more of the behavior described, I just wanted enough to get Lord Farquaad gone and from what we know so far, we didn't get it.

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1 minute ago, The Sisko said:

 

The timing isn't the point.

 

If the timing wasn't the point Sheehan wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

Let's see how Snyder responds 7 months down the road after the investigation is complete and a report is published.

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10 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

 

The timing isn't the point. The difference in the tone of the two statements is what matters. They both pretty much said they weren't aware of what happened and it was regrettable. However, the Cuban statement expressed some level of disgust/regret while Snyder's was merely an anodyne exercise in keeping the opposition lawyers and the press at bay.

 

 

 

By the way, just realized you posted/quoted me in the wrong thread lol...not sure how that happened.

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15 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

After reading OP, the thread title should be changed to “The Stockholm Syndrome Thread”

 

 


Eh, the difference here I wasn’t kidnapped, taken away, and then slowly conditioned to accept my new reality. I was already here, do not sympathize with my new “roommate” but have decided I will try to outlast him as opposed to finding a new place to dwell. 

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49 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Being a fan of this team, and I've been pro name change for years, is like being a heavy marlboro red smoker, which I was for 40 years (I'm 47 next week) until last year.

 

I know it's not good, I'd rather not do it. It doesn't make me feel good almost ever, but I still don't stop.

 

You started smoking at age 7?

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Just now, Timmy_Smith said:

 

You started smoking at age 7?

6. My grandmother taught me. Coffee, booze and smoking along with hating Italians. lol She was a 70lbs Irish lady from south Philly.

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Snyder has failed spectacularly has an owner. He's never going to truly change. Deep down, he thinks he knows best and will always be like that. The Skins may have a random good year under his ownership, but the next dumpster fire will always be around the corner. At this point, you have to be a fool to expect anything else. I was a fool for a long, long time. So here's to enjoying the random decent year once in a while. That's all you can hope for until Snyder no longer owns the team.

Edited by Hooper
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3 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

And thus, Dan Snyder has won.  You can do anything you want, to anyone, and be rewarded.


There are no laws against being a world class ahole. Even in this latest article, the accusers make a point to say that Snyder was not involved and they can only speculate as to whether or not he knew. Considering he’s such a recluse and probably not spending much time hanging out in the breakdown with “lower level” employees it’s entirely possible he didn’t know it was going on. 
 

Now, it is VERY clear that he is horrible at any sort of oversight within his organization. Perhaps Snyder, much like Mark Cuban, is ultimately guilty of not being aware of things he should be aware of.... but there is definitely a difference in levels between... harassing employees, covering up or ignoring known harassment complaints, and simply being absent/unaware of what was happening. There is a level of “guilt” in each of those, but the severity diminishes as you move down the ladder. 
 

He can’t do ANYTHING he wants. If he was named in this article, he’d be in huge trouble and it would likely lead to his removal. But it seems that Snyder (so far at least) is able to draw the line at just being a really miserable ahole and not cross that line into actionable offenses. 
 

The NFL system is set up so that once you own a team, it’s basically impossible to screw it up financially. You can have the worst team in the league year after year, treat employees poorly, let down your fans/customers and you will still bank and see your investment grow due to the nature of the league’s revenue sharing arrangement. 
 

He could absolutely be removed for committing a criminal act or getting caught engaging in sexism, racism, harassment, etc. Unfortunately, he cannot be removed for being terrible.   

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10 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Snyder has failed spectacularly has an owner. He's never going to truly change. Deep down, he thinks he knows best and will always be like that. The Skins may have a random good year under his ownership, but the next dumpster fire will always be around the corner. At this point, you have to be a fool to expect anything else. I was a fool for a long, long time. So here's to enjoying the random decent year once in a while. That's all you can hope for until Snyder no longer owns the team.


Yep, this is basically it. Kind of like the Cardinals under the Bidwell’s. Then they fell ass backwards into Kurt Warner and randomly wound up with a handful of coaches who were competent and had a nice little run that came VERY close to ending with a SB title. It’s not really anything specifically the Bidwell’s did or changed— and not surprisingly, they weren’t able to sustain it. 
 

So that’s my hope. Maybe Rivera gets a handle on the shenanigans and maybe we get lucky with a guy like Haskins. Random 10-6 season and things go your way in playoffs. Something like that. I gave up hope many moons ago that Snyder will return the franchise itself to glory. But I still hold out hope that the stars could align for a short period of real success.  

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@kleese - thanks for putting my own thoughts into words far more eloquently than I'm capable of doing.

 

It sucks, but it's the bed we've made, and I'm here for the long haul.  One of these days, we need to make a game together, my Midwestern friend. Maybe we hit up a Dallas home game if they ever stop putting them on Thanksgiving or NYE weekend. 

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I don't like the owner and I haven't liked any of the team management for the 20 years Snyder has owned the team.   But, I loath journalists who just spew their opinions on readership rather than letting the readers form their own opinions.  It forces me to defend Snyder/et al when he's been terrible with the franchise.  "he should stand at the podium and apologize", "he must have known", "he fostered the atmosphere", etc etc etc.  If the media liked Snyder they wouldn't say anything like this.  Instead it would be "he took decisive action in firing the culprits.  He has hired the right people to fix this mess."   

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36 minutes ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

@kleese - thanks for putting my own thoughts into words far more eloquently than I'm capable of doing.

 

It sucks, but it's the bed we've made, and I'm here for the long haul.  One of these days, we need to make a game together, my Midwestern friend. Maybe we hit up a Dallas home game if they ever stop putting them on Thanksgiving or NYE weekend. 


Yes, that’s been super annoying. I’m just over 3 hours from Dallas and it’s an easy trip and I like Jerryworld. But Thanksgiving isn’t not convenient (I’ve been twice on Turkey Day) and I never buy tickets in advance for any Redskin game played past mid November for obvious reasons. Been forever since we played them in Dallas in a random early to mid season slot. 

8 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

I don't like the owner and I haven't liked any of the team management for the 20 years Snyder has owned the team.   But, I loath journalists who just spew their opinions on readership rather than letting the readers form their own opinions.  It forces me to defend Snyder/et al when he's been terrible with the franchise.  "he should stand at the podium and apologize", "he must have known", "he fostered the atmosphere", etc etc etc.  If the media liked Snyder they wouldn't say anything like this.  Instead it would be "he took decisive action in firing the culprits.  He has hired the right people to fix this mess."   


Yes, this is an issue for me too. I like facts and keeping emotion out of arguments as much as possible. And I really don’t like exaggerations when people make claims about others. I feel like there is some piling on and twisting of facts when it comes to Snyder. So it puts me in awkward position of “defending” him when I totally agree that he’s awful. 
 

So if you ask me is Dan a bad owner and would we benefit from his removal? 100%, yes. Absolutely. But if you ask me whether he’s ever done anything (that has come to light) that would justify a forced sale? My answer is 100%, no. Being incompetent and an ahole isn’t ground for being forced to sell your business. Now, if people think they can ratchet the public pressure up high enough to make him want to leave on his own? Go for it. 

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I dig @kleese's OP.  I'm in the same boat.  I was hoping yesterday would be the thing to kick Snyder out.  Maybe it can gain some momentum and maybe it will be.

 

But **** that chump.  I was here first, I was a fan before he was an owner.  I'm 38, he's 55.  If he doesn't get kicked out, if he doesn't ever sell, I will outlast him.  Flat out.  And it doesn't matter what else he does to drag this franchise through the mud.  I will outlast him. 

 

Mark my words, the day Snyder gets kicked out or is forced to sell the team will be as sweet as any Super Bowl victory.  

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"I realized long ago that I probably care more about this franchise than just about anyone....."

Your passion for the franchise is appreciated. Problem is you seem to think that Ron Rivera, who lost to "this franchise" then called the Redskins in 2019, is a miracle solution. Until it is sold to an owner who has leadership abilities enough to run a pizza shop, never mind an NFL franchise, Ron Rivera could be the second coming and it wouldn't help. The simplest of solutions is usually the best. What could be simpler than a For Sale sign? (Just heard on sports talk radio that Snyder just put out a typical pr statement about only the latest in a long list of fiascos. And so it continues. 2020, if it happens will be a horror show. That will be the fun part I am afraid.)

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13 minutes ago, Smurf3 said:

"I realized long ago that I probably care more about this franchise than just about anyone....."

Your passion for the franchise is appreciated. Problem is you seem to think that Ron Rivera, who lost to "this franchise" then called the Redskins in 2019, is a miracle solution. Until it is sold to an owner who has leadership abilities enough to run a pizza shop, never mind an NFL franchise, Ron Rivera could be the second coming and it wouldn't help. The simplest of solutions is usually the best. What could be simpler than a For Sale sign? (Just heard on sports talk radio that Snyder just put out a typical pr statement about only the latest in a long list of fiascos. And so it continues. 2020, if it happens will be a horror show. That will be the fun part I am afraid.)


Not a savior and probably not a long term fix either. But could he do something similar to Gibbs from 2004-2007? Yes. And not only was the one field product solid in those four years, but there was a break in the off field fiasco stuff. And I actually think in terms or roster, RR is taking over a better situation than where we were after the 2003 season. I’ve given up saviors man. Wishing more for lightning in a bottle now. 

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