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Heels Dug In Forever: Die Hard Fans and Snyder


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Last week I made my first post on ES in about six months. That’s my defense mechanisms these days. I am fully able to basically shut the Redskins out during the off season and only pour deep energy into it from pre-season to season’s end. 

 

From the day Rivera’s first presser ended until last week, I rarely checked the boards and pay almost no attention to FA, draft, general news. I stay connected enough to know what’s going on, but it’s minimal. I watch other sports, focus on my other teams and other interests. And this year in particular I easily would have kept my “ignore” feature on until almost game 1 was it not for the name change and this latest story. That brought me in last week. 

 

In that post I questioned whether or not the name change could be the “move on” moment for me. It bugged me more than I thought it would. Probably because of HOW it’s going down more so than the fact that it IS going down. But that’s really a whole other conversation/debate. It stung me because of my personal history and memories of the team. It was a little more painful than I imagined it was going to be. And that led me to openly wonder if perhaps it could push me out. But deep down, not sure I was really being honest with myself. 

 

In the massive and highly entertaining thread from yesterday/today I posted a quote from a favorite movie of mine: Planes, Trains, and Automobiles: 

 

“I-I could tolerate any, any insurance seminar, for days. I could sit there and listen to them go on and on with a big smile on my face. They'd say, "How can ya stand it?" And I'd say, "'Cause I've been with Del Griffith.”

 

If you’ve seen the movie, you get it. And today I realized that this is where I am with this team and where I will always be. 

 

I am indestructible. There is literally no “move on” moment for me short of disbanding the franchise. I will survive. I can handle anything. I will outlast everyone. Even the owner. I was here before he was. When he’s gone I’ll either still be here or I’ll be six feet under. I wear it as a badge of honor now. I’ve done this my whole life. It’s brought me immense pleasure. Yes, even the miserable years have provided a level of entertainment/enjoyment that might border a bit on the demented side, but it remains still. 

 

I cast no judgement on other fans. If people bail altogether, I get it. If they scale back, I get it. In some ways I’ve done that myself. 

 

But I actually don’t have to harken back to 1991 to find WHY I still root for this team. Heck, I can just go back to last year. 

 

Yes, last year. 

 

The 2019 season is absolutely a bottom three season for me as a fan in terms of my enjoyment level. It sucked. 

 

But there was a moment. Week one at Philly, we lead 10-0. Keenum drops back and McLaurin is streaking wide open. Perfect pass, easy 75 yard TD. Well, I SHOT off my chair on the deck when I saw how open he was and I jumped and yelled when he crossed the goal line. It’s absolutely instinctive. In that moment did I suddenly think we were winning the Super Bowl? Uh, no. I wasn’t even convinced we’d win the game (smart move). But that sort of unplanned response is all I need. I woke up that morning; put my jersey on, set up food and drink and got the two TVs set up on the deck. My excitement level for the season was lower than normal for sure, but it was absolutely higher than if it was just a normal Sunday. The season itself quickly devolved into misery. But I mean it was just the year before that that the Redskins ruined my Thanksgiving once again. And you know what ruining Thanksgiving means? It means I still care. 

 

I guess I’m able to separate Snyder from my personal fandom. I think largely due to the fact that I really was doing this long before he arrived. I feel a stubborn ownership myself and have no intention of letting him or anyone else ruin the Redskins for me. 

 

So, I guess he can’t ruin the “Redskins” for anyone anymore. But I think it’s clear I’m not going anywhere regardless. 

 

I was hopeful like everyone else. That maybe this “bombshell” would be our Snyder-escape. Doesn’t look like that will be the case. The allegations are slimy and the dudes involved are super creeps and all deserve to be fired and out of the league (and probably out of a workplace setting) for good. But there isn’t any assault there. Nothing even criminal per se. It’s almost identical to the Dallas Mavs situation although probably not quite as bad because the execs in our case weren’t as high up as in Dallas and the allegations weren’t quite as gross/blatant. Even the accusers made it clear in our case Snyder was not involved and no one even implicated him in a cover up or intimidation or anything like that. So he’s guilty of not setting the culture properly and lacking oversight. Things we’ve known for 20 years. This is probably the most obviously embarrassing moment for him and the organization over that span, but it’s not a removable offense based on what is being alleged. 

 

So for about 24 hours I had the same hope many of you did. Maybe we’d all get our wish. But alas, this ain’t Disney and wishes don’t always come true. So for me, I soldier on. I continue to search for slivers of hope. 

 

My current silver is this:

 

From 2004-2007 the Redskins took a break from being a national joke. On the field things were decent to good and off the field there were no humiliations. No media leaks. No terrible stories. No accusations. No media rumors of chaos behind the scenes. Pretty boring, calm. Those years felt like a normal NFL team. It was the one period under Snyder where we had a proven leader and good man in charge with NO ONE between him and Snyder. That last part is the key. It was the one time in the Snyder era there wasn’t some sort of right hand man acting as an intermediary between the owner and the hands on leader. 

 

The situation now is much like 2004-2007. It is apparent that Snyder somehow has good relationships with people when he enters into that relationship with a personal lever of reverence or respect for that person. Gibbs and Rivera seem to fit that bill. Snyder seems to have horrible relationships with pretty much everyone else. 

 

But I firmly believe this is Rivera’s ship right now. And it REALLY will be now. I promise you Dan will be hiding in his yacht as much as possible. He hates facing the music/media and he knows he can’t run from this. If he shows his face he’s going to have to answer. Fingers will point. I think he was turning the keys over to Rivera anyway, but now he basically has no choice. Snyder is still there and as long as that’s the case it probably ultimately means bad things for us. But I do think the further he pushed into his hole, the better chance we have to succeed— or at least not be humiliating. 

 

I’m not sure if Rivera has the chops to change the culture AND turn around the on field product as well. That’s a monumental task. But I do believe he is legitimately a man of good character and integrity and he will clean up the behind the scenes BS. There is no Bruce or Vinny to undermine him. If Snyder has remaining lackeys in the organization I’m not sure who they would be. Now, will Rivera have the patience, tolerance, and energy to get through this mess, the virus mess, the social justice stuff, rebuilding a roster, etc?? Well, I certainly have my doubts about that. But I think he’s as good as anyone to try. 

 

Personally, I’m fine if the 2020 season evaporates. I’m pretty worn out by it all and a full year off from this football team wouldn’t bother me a bit. May very well be just what the doctor ordered for fans and the organization itself. Timing certainly seems good for that. So no, I am not itching with anticipation for week one this year. 

 

But... someday I will be. Maybe in September 2020 or maybe in September 2021. I’ll be there. I hibernate, but I never leave. They can’t smoke me out. If this is a game of chicken with Snyder, he will have to swerve first. He isn’t “duping” or tricking me. I know what this deal is. I know what I’m getting into. But I’ve dug my heels in. I still find the good in it. I still find the fun in it. I have to look harder now and some years it doesn’t last very long, but it remains. As do I. 

 

I would say Snyder is lucky to have me. But maybe that’s why this doesn’t bother me as much as it bothers some. I do not view this as HIS team. He doesn’t have ME. This is MY team. I promise you I know more about this organization than he does. I promise you I can rattle off specifics better than he can. He probably doesn’t even remember Romeo Bandison or why he SHOULD remember him. He can’t have that. I won’t give it to him. 

 

I’m 42 years old. I’ve been doing this as long as I can remember. Even in the lowest times being a fan of this team brings me some level of expression/passion/interest/enjoyment that is hard to explain. So let’s see what you got next Dan. If he ever accidentally gets it right, the rewards will be mine. 

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This was just posted and due to current events hasn’t aged well.

 

Now isn’t the time to talk about Snyder having anyone. He is not guilty to this point, but this all happened on his watch. So regardless, he needs to be accountable in some way.

Edited by KDawg
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4 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

Lost me big time in the third act, which sounded like delusion to me.

 
I would say a certain level of delusion is required to be a fan of any team. Especially this one. 

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This was just posted and due to current events hasn’t aged well.

 

Now isn’t the time to talk about Snyder having anyone. He is not guilty to this point, but this all happened on his watch. So regardless, he needs to be accountable in some way.


Oh; I am sure he will be— and he should be. Probably in the form of fines or perhaps even suspension. And he will certainly be held accountable in the court of public opinion. Whatever is left of reputation will take a hit. But absolutely nothing I read today would lead me to believe that removal from his post as owner is warranted. 

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16 minutes ago, kleese said:

 
I would say a certain level of delusion is required to be a fan of any team. Especially this one. 

 

I'd argue there are much different levels of dilusion.  Ignoring Josh Allen's meltdown at the end of a playoff game and pretending Mike McCarthy is actually into those newfangled analytics is a different disease than hoping for some kind of return to glory under the worst owner in the history of sports because Rivera seems like a good man, ala Gibbs, who was brilliantly fortunate to leave this debacle with his reputation untarnished.  

 

Personally I wont spend a dollar or invest emotional energy into this franchise until Snyder is no longer part of it.  Redzone and football games that are actually good/matter can fill me up until then.

 

We all need to vote with our wallets for the foreseeable future.

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Just now, 86 Snyder said:

 

I'd argue there are much different levels of dilusion.  Ignoring Josh Allen's meltdown at the end of a playoff game and pretending Mike McCarthy is actually into those newfangled analytics is a different disease than hoping for some kind of return to glory under the worst owner in the history of sports because Rivera seems like a good man, ala Gibbs, who was brilliantly fortunate to leave this debacle with his reputation untarnished.  

 

Personally I wont spend a dollar or invest emotional energy into this franchise until Snyder is no longer part of it.  Redzone and football games that are actually good/matter can fill me up until then.

 

We all need to vote with our wallets for the foreseeable future.


First of all, as I said in the OP I won’t judge any fellow fan for whatever they choose. If the team brings you no enjoyment or interest then bailing or scaling way back makes sense. Life is too short. 
 

As far as the $$ thing is concerned, we’ve been over this before and while I get it from a personal standpoint of feeling better about not sending your dollars for organization specific things; any support of the NFL is support of Snyder. If you subscribe to Redzone, it’s money in his pocket. It’s also

money in his pocket every time someone buys a Pat Mahomes jersey. Jerry Jones unsuccessfully tried to change this. The way the revenue is set up for the league each owner benefits from the overall success of

the league. Things like ticket sales or concessions are a very, very small drop in the bucket. 
 

There is a reason the franchise has increased in value immensely under his ownership despite a striking drop in ticket sales, merch sales, etc. 
 

The team has missed an entire generation of potential fans. No one under the age of 35 gives a rip about them. And the remaining pool of “old” fans diminishes by the year. 
 

Yet, as long as the league is healthy, Dan’s pockets stay straight. There really isn’t a way to make Heim hurt financially in any meaningful way. There IS a way to embarrass and humiliate him with an empty or

taken-over stadium, but that’s an old story now too. 

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13 minutes ago, kleese said:


First of all, as I said in the OP I won’t judge any fellow fan for whatever they choose. If the team brings you no enjoyment or interest then bailing or scaling way back makes sense. Life is too short. 
 

As far as the $$ thing is concerned, we’ve been over this before and while I get it from a personal standpoint of feeling better about not sending your dollars for organization specific things; any support of the NFL is support of Snyder. If you subscribe to Redzone, it’s money in his pocket. It’s also

money in his pocket every time someone buys a Pat Mahomes jersey. Jerry Jones unsuccessfully tried to change this. The way the revenue is set up for the league each owner benefits from the overall success of

the league. Things like ticket sales or concessions are a very, very small drop in the bucket. 
 

There is a reason the franchise has increased in value immensely under his ownership despite a striking drop in ticket sales, merch sales, etc. 
 

The team has missed an entire generation of potential fans. No one under the age of 35 gives a rip about them. And the remaining pool of “old” fans diminishes by the year. 
 

Yet, as long as the league is healthy, Dan’s pockets stay straight. There really isn’t a way to make Heim hurt financially in any meaningful way. There IS a way to embarrass and humiliate him with an empty or

taken-over stadium, but that’s an old story now too. 

 

I understand all of those things, but we have never been in the moment of social evolution that we find ourselves in now.  The currency of outrage has never been more valuable.  The iron is still hot from the name change.  The media and rest of the league loathes him.  No one wants to let him build a stadium.  His partners are folding.  He will have to stand up to the court of public opinion and convince everyone he didn't know about the transgressions and that he is the man to fix them, all while being breathtakingly awkward and reclusive (thanks Czabe). 

 

Now is the time.  We all need to ratchet up the pressure.  

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2 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

I understand all of those things, but we have never been in the moment of social evolution that we find ourselves in now.  The currency of outrage has never been more valuable.  The iron is still hot from the name change.  The media and rest of the league loathes him.  No one wants to let him build a stadium.  His partners are folding.  He will have to stand up to the court of public opinion and convince everyone he didn't know about the transgressions and that he is the man to fix them, all while being breathtakingly awkward and reclusive (thanks Czabe). 

 

Now is the time.  We all need to ratchet up the pressure.  


I think that’s a fine approach and potentially has merit. I do NOT think the owners will actually be able to force him out based on this largely due to the fact that I doubt all of them would be totally confident their own houses have been in order during their tenure to a degree where they also couldn’t see the same fate. 
 

However, do I think a swarm of public pressure could potentially push Snyder to decide to sell on his own? Well, I think there could be some hope in that. But that’s where the reclusive part comes in. By all accounts, he legitimately insulates himself from these criticisms. Sounds like he’s almost surprised when he hears fans are unhappy about something. So it’s hard to feel the pressure if you are out on your yacht paying no attention. 

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3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Ok, I didn't read the entire thing but I do agree, Tiger King was way over-hyped.

It was really awful and super biased. Left you feeling bad for Joe and dude was a garbage person murdering baby tigers.

 

This rant i don't know. Could tell it was a diaper slapping the floor immediately. 

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2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

It was really awful and super biased. Left you feeling bad for Joe and dude was a garbage person murdering baby tigers.

 

This rant i don't know. Could tell it was a diaper slapping the floor immediately. 

Is there tigers where you live?

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5 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Be honest with us, how much does Dan Snyder pay you to write this stuff? 

 

I'll be honest here...I wish there was a filter on this board that replaced comments like "how much does Dan Snyder pay you" with asterisks like the profanity filter does. 

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5 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Be honest with us, how much does Dan Snyder pay you to write this stuff? 


Not sure why he’d pay me to state publicly

that he’s a horrible owner and I was rooting for the news to be bad enough that he would

be removed yet simply state my reasons why I remain a fan of the team. 
 

And let me ask you this... let’s assume we play the Eagles on 9-13. Will you watch? And if so, will you root for the Redskins/whoever’s? If the answer to those questions are yes, then you are same as me. I have a hard time believing that all of the fans that comment in these threads only post

in threads and don’t support the team in any other fashion. 

5 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

There are a lot of ES and redskisn fans we all know who are delusional about the name and also support Dan and the park stuff regardless of what happens. 


I have decided long ago to support the team

by continuing to root for their success regardless of what happens— that’s for sure true. I was rooting hard for the “bombshell”

to be much more than it was because ousting Snyder would be best for our potential success. However, even though he remains I will still root for the team to be successful. If that’s “supporting Dan” than I suppose I am guilty. But that would be a weird way to define “support.” 

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13 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

by continuing to root for their success regardless of what happens— that’s for sure true. I was rooting hard for the “bombshell”

to be much more than it was because ousting Snyder would be best for our potential success. However, even though he remains I will still root for the team to be successful. If that’s “supporting Dan” than I suppose I am guilty. But that would be a weird way to define “support.” 

Supporting the team and supporting this owner are two different things.  I dont want to name names but fans who appear on TV who claim to know nothing or defend this team no matter what happens. 

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1 minute ago, skinfan2k said:

Supporting the team and supporting this owner are two different things.  I dont want to name names but fans who appear on TV who claim to know nothing or defend this team no matter what happens. 


OK, just clarifying that support of the organization in terms of hoping they win doesn’t necessarily equate to “supporting Snyder” in your view. 

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This “I was hoping the bombshell was more” is a disease.

 

You were hoping for more than a franchise chock full of men who allegedly sexual harassed women? If proven true, it’s likely these FIFTEEN women were just a percentage of those that experienced this caveman behavior.

 

This isn’t a “I wanted more” situation. This is ****ing disgusting (IF true).

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I'll be honest here...I wish there was a filter on this board that replaced comments like "how much does Dan Snyder pay you" with asterisks like the profanity filter does. 

You can add “buckle up folks” into this profanity as well

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I totally related to the part about the first half of the eagles game.

when that play happened, I leaped out of my seat, absolutely ecstatic, thinking in that brief moment that we were going to be a good football team and this why I do what I do, this is why I suffer through all the pain, so that the joy feels that much better when it arrives. 

I very quickly replaced that joy (well before the eagles comeback) with doubt and reinstalled the concrete barrier around my heart knowing the sword was on its way because its impossible to not be cynical as a fan of the Washington Redskins, but I agree for that incredibly brief moment I realized why I do this.

Edited by redskinss
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"....I’m 42 years old. I’ve been doing this as long as I can remember. Even in the lowest times being a fan of this team brings me some level of expression/passion/interest/enjoyment that is hard to explain. So let’s see what you got next Dan. If he ever accidentally gets it right, the rewards will be mine. "

 

I am 73 years old and loved the late '50s Eddie LeBaron, Jim Podoley, Bob Tonniff (sp) Redskins and every version thereafter until Mr. Snyder took over. No way to make a glass half full or lemonade out of lemons out of this total joke of an organization. Mr. Snyder, sell this franchise.

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I'm not sure if this needed a new thread, it could have easily gone into the "Something, something, something....how will your fandom change" thread.

 

With that minor whinge out of the way: I read the whole post and thoroughly enjoyed it, thanks for sharing. I'm also not going anywhere, this is my team, not Snyder's, and I will always want them to succeed (rather than just suck, ;)).

 

To be honest, I've realised that since Bruce left and RR was hired, I don't seem to dislike Snyder quite as much, although I do still want him gone. Maybe I'm deluding myself about just how much influence the new coach will have, I don't know.

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3 hours ago, KDawg said:

This “I was hoping the bombshell was more” is a disease.

 

You were hoping for more than a franchise chock full of men who allegedly sexual harassed women? If proven true, it’s likely these FIFTEEN women were just a percentage of those that experienced this caveman behavior.

 

This isn’t a “I wanted more” situation. This is ****ing disgusting (IF true).

 

 

 

In my eyes, it's absolutely true. Those tweets and the firings/"retiring"just iced it for me.

 

But more to what Kleese was saying--which turns out wasn't about the Tiger King at all 😐 --placing your desire to remain a fan through all of this so far as a badge of honor, I gotta respect that. I didn't look at my desire to do so as anything, really...and surprisingly enough this was maybe the only time I actually ran the idea of saying "that's it" through my head in the entire 40+ years of being a fan. But I knew I'd be watching the games in Sept (if there is a season) and I'd be ecstatic seeing Haskins throw another long TD to Mclaurin, seeing Guice stiff-arm the ever-loving **** out of soeone on a long run, and Chase Young get his first sack. I've always said I'm not a fan of the owner or of the players (except for a very few who have retired), I'm a fan of the Redskins, soon to be the (fill in the blanks). Owners and players come and go, but the team remains.

Edited by Califan007
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2 hours ago, KDawg said:

This “I was hoping the bombshell was more” is a disease.

 

You were hoping for more than a franchise chock full of men who allegedly sexual harassed women? If proven true, it’s likely these FIFTEEN women were just a percentage of those that experienced this caveman behavior.

 

This isn’t a “I wanted more” situation. This is ****ing disgusting (IF true).

 

 

I believe these women were done a huge diservice by some of the local reporters and obviously the organization. 

 

Most people just wanted dots to connect to the owner, they didn't want more crimes to happen. That's kind of a silly thought to have. 

 

 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

I'll be honest here...I wish there was a filter on this board that replaced comments like "how much does Dan Snyder pay you" with asterisks like the profanity filter does. 

Why end with that, any time someone messes with anyone on this board we could just filter it. His piece had a different vibe to it so I figured I'd mess with him. 

 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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