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A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread


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2 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Imagine not rooting for good things to happen to good people such as Wright and Rivera 😂😂😂 

Sorry, they are collateral damage and they have their owner to thank for it. And we all know I'm not alone in this, this mood is pervasive and probably more common with local residents than people who actually still root passionately for the team. 

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1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Sorry, they are collateral damage and they have their owner to thank for it. And we all know I'm not alone in this, this mood is pervasive and probably more common with local residents than people who actually still root passionately for the team. 


Absolutely spot on. And I know this because if someone told me I would feel the way I do right now just two years ago, if not less, I would’ve said it was impossible, no way. 
 

Snyder has done to me what I sincerely thought impossible. I’m someone who lived and breathed this team for decades, as were you. I can only imagine there are many, many others who feel the same, if not worse. Unlike us, they just don’t care at all anymore, not even enough to be bothered by any success. They probably never posted on message boards and/or social media as much as us to give a crap about talking about this, either. We can’t stand Snyder to the point that it has affected how we engage with the team itself, something I was able to separate him from in my mind for years. But, yeah, regarding the others this is clearly reflected in how the Stadium has looked in terms of fan participation the last few years as well as the decrease in revenue gained relative to the rest of the NFL. 
 

Those who are still here will be vocal and enthusiastic, which will make them feel like they’re the majority just by virtue of the environment. And, of course, the always fun “fan labeling” that comes with it where they actually believe they fan better than other fans (much of which makes me ashamed because I see myself and the similar type of fan I used to be in it). 
 

But there’s no question in my mind Snyder has destroyed a massive portion of this fanbase. What percentage exactly, I don’t know. But it’s significant. I honestly think that if we start winning consistently most of the fans will be new, younger, ones that got attached to the modern branding as well. 
 

You never know, though. There are certainly quality football people within the organization that you can’t help but root for (as there always were in the past). Maybe our minds get changed. Knowing how I feel now and how I thought that to always be impossible, I won’t count anything out. It’s just… that guy has done so much wrong to so many people I can’t stand the idea that he even gets another chance at success with anyone. Like you said, Wright and Rivera are collateral damage. It’s not their fault, but he’s lost that to me. He doesn’t deserve another reset in the Snyder Cycle, no matter how better revised this version seems (in comparison to other Snyder Cycle resets, not necessarily the NFL in general) on the surface.  
 

For me, personally, it goes even deeper in that the fans themselves will piss me off to no end if there’s any semblance of success because they’ll be crediting it to some absurd quality of coaching/staff nonsense they have no idea about (even worse Snyder will be credited for “making these great hires”) instead of the fact that Snyder was forced into a situation where his toxicity doesn’t corrupt the entire organization and these hires were able to actually fulfill their roles for a longer period of time than anyone else ever had the luxury of. Yuck. But I know that’s just me, lol. Pretty amazing that Snyder has gotten me to this point. 

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2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Sorry, they are collateral damage and they have their owner to thank for it. And we all know I'm not alone in this, this mood is pervasive and probably more common with local residents than people who actually still root passionately for the team. 

 

hasn't Snyder done enough damage without us actively hoping his mere presence causes even more damage to people who don't deserve it?

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28 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:


Absolutely spot on. And I know this because if someone told me I would feel the way I do right now just two years ago, if not less, I would’ve said it was impossible, no way. 
 

Snyder has done to me what I sincerely thought impossible. I’m someone who lived and breathed this team for decades, as were you. I can only imagine there are many, many others who feel the same, if not worse. Unlike us, they just don’t care at all anymore, not even enough to be bothered by any success. They probably never posted on message boards and/or social media as much as us to give a crap about talking about this, either. We can’t stand Snyder to the point that it has affected how we engage with the team itself, something I was able to separate him from in my mind for years. But, yeah, regarding the others this is clearly reflected in how the Stadium has looked in terms of fan participation the last few years as well as the decrease in revenue gained relative to the rest of the NFL. 
 

Those who are still here will be vocal and enthusiastic, which will make them feel like they’re the majority just by virtue of the environment. And, of course, the always fun “fan labeling” that comes with it where they actually believe they fan better than other fans (much of which makes me ashamed because I see myself and the similar type of fan I used to be in it). 
 

But there’s no question in my mind Snyder has destroyed a massive portion of this fanbase. What percentage exactly, I don’t know. But it’s significant. I honestly think that if we start winning consistently most of the fans will be new, younger, ones that got attached to the modern branding as well. 
 

You never know, though. There are certainly quality football people within the organization that you can’t help but root for (as there always were in the past). Maybe our minds get changed. Knowing how I feel now and how I thought that to always be impossible, I won’t count anything out. It’s just… that guy has done so much wrong to so many people I can’t stand the idea that he even gets another chance at success with anyone. Like you said, Wright and Rivera are collateral damage. It’s not their fault, but he’s lost that to me. He doesn’t deserve another reset in the Snyder Cycle, no matter how better revised this version seems (in comparison to other Snyder Cycle resets, not necessarily the NFL in general) on the surface.  
 

For me, personally, it goes even deeper in that the fans themselves will piss me off to no end if there’s any semblance of success because they’ll be crediting it to some absurd quality of coaching/staff nonsense they have no idea about (even worse Snyder will be credited for “making these great hires”) instead of the fact that Snyder was forced into a situation where his toxicity doesn’t corrupt the entire organization and these hires were able to actually fulfill their roles for a longer period of time than anyone else ever had the luxury of. Yuck. But I know that’s just me, lol. Pretty amazing that Snyder has gotten me to this point. 

Great post. Like you, I cannot believe that I'm here. For years I wanted to overlook the bad with this owner. I would assume that any idiotic decision or grotesque story that leaked out of Redskin Park had some method to the madness. 

 

He's a bad man. And, to the "fan labeling" people you mention...I would just love to see how they would respond if they had people they knew and loved impacted by a disgusting predator. I would be fine if this team went 0-17 and everyone was fired. I believe that many people in the organization are quality individuals, but they also make millions so I wouldn't be starting a GoFundMe for Jason Wright if he lost his job and had to catch on somewhere else. Plenty of good people unfairly feel the impact of bad organizations/owners. 

28 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

hasn't Snyder done enough damage without us actively hoping his mere presence causes even more damage to people who don't deserve it?

 

No. We root for dozens of things every day. I can't help what I want to see happen. This isn't some conscious, spiteful stance I'm taking. This is how I feel. Plus, unlike Snyder, my activity won't actually impact what happens on the field. They are going to be good, bad, average, whatever regardless of what I want to happen. Believe me, the last 30 years proves that. 

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17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

No. We root for dozens of things every day. I can't help what I want to see happen. This isn't some conscious, spiteful stance I'm taking. This is how I feel. Plus, unlike Snyder, my activity won't actually impact what happens on the field. They are going to be good, bad, average, whatever regardless of what I want to happen. Believe me, the last 30 years proves that. 

 

So you're actively hoping good people fail because you know your hoping won't have any effect? It just makes you feel good?

 

And for the record, you CAN help what you want to see happen. This desire wasn't forced on you, it was chosen by you.

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So @TD_washingtonredskins , do you want to see us win?  I've read what you've written and agree with a lot of points.  I just don't know the answer to this question for you.

18 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

So you're actively hoping good people fail because you know your hoping won't have any effect? It just makes you feel good?

 

**EDITED DUE TO POOR WRITING**

 

I don't think it's an active hope. People do not choose what they want, that's patently false.  If it were true, then nobody would have any vices or taboo interests because they would simply be able to flip the switch.  What people DO with what they want and how they feel, that's what people control.

Wanting A which has a known or anticipated side effect of B does not mean you want B.  If I'm trying to get rid of a bacterial infection, I'm not taking the antibiotic because I want an upset stomach.

People also don't benefit from having what was a reliable source of positivity turn to a source of negativity, especially when it's outside of their control.

I don't think it's active or intentional.

Edited by NewCliche21
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2 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

So @TD_washingtonredskins , do you want to see us win?  I've read what you've written and agree with a lot of points.  I just don't know the answer to this question for you.

 

I don't think it's an active hope. I don't actively hate carrots, I know they're good for me, I *WANT* to like them, but I hate them.

In abusive relationships, the person experiencing abuse doesn't want to feel the need to stay in the relationship.  Nobody wants that.

I don't think it's active or intentional.

 

Whether or not you like carrots is a matter of personal taste. Whether or not you want everyone who grows carrots to end up unemployed and filing for backruptsy is not a matter of taste. It's a choice on how you want to perceive things and have it effect your life.

 

And old GF long time ago and I broke up...she was spiteful, I was pleasant. At one point she wrote me an email, lengthy one, talking about all the negative things that she felt towards me. I wrote back and basically told her that if she wants to view our relationship in a negative manner that's her choice, but in no way am I going to take part in that. I  said I chose to always view her in her best light, not because she deserved it but because that's exactly how I want and choose to live my life. She has bitterness, I moved on.

 

About a month later she sent me another lengthy email apologizing out the ying yang lol...said "you probably don't want to hear this, etc, etc" and owned up to all the stuff she was spewing. I said "Eh, what's done is done, don't worry about it." The idea that none of us have a choice over how we choose to perceive things in our lives is laughable. Unless we're talking about significant trauma when we were young children, it's a bit silly to pretend like we have no say in how we respond, act, perceive things in life.

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@thesubmittedone, @TD_washingtonredskins

 

I feel you both...trust me.  No shame in those thoughts to be had.  Personally, the new culture (however it may have come to pass) is enough to at least allow me to root for the team without feeling scummy about it.  I guess thats my own Mendoza line.  And especially in light of current events *gestures at everything*, I'm looking for any smidgen of pleasure or enjoyment I can find.  

 

No one can tell you how to feel about it though and I'm sure your credentials as a fan speak for themselves.  Just...idk...I hope you find a way.  And if not well, thats cool too.

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

So you're actively hoping good people fail because you know your hoping won't have any effect? It just makes you feel good?

 

And for the record, you CAN help what you want to see happen. This desire wasn't forced on you, it was chosen by you.

I don't agree. You don't train yourself to like something or root for something...you feel it. For the 30 years the Redskins winning on Sundays was extremely important to me, it wasn't because I trained for it or decided I wanted it to be important. It just was and I felt it without much control. Now, that's turned. The disgusting acts by Snyder have made it so that when I see that they are playing, I don't want them to win. I'm not trying to make some point by rooting against them...no one sees what I'm doing so I'm not sure why you think I'm choosing it. I just know what I want to see happen. 

1 hour ago, 86 Snyder said:

@thesubmittedone, @TD_washingtonredskins

 

I feel you both...trust me.  No shame in those thoughts to be had.  Personally, the new culture (however it may have come to pass) is enough to at least allow me to root for the team without feeling scummy about it.  I guess thats my own Mendoza line.  And especially in light of current events *gestures at everything*, I'm looking for any smidgen of pleasure or enjoyment I can find.  

 

No one can tell you how to feel about it though and I'm sure your credentials as a fan speak for themselves.  Just...idk...I hope you find a way.  And if not well, thats cool too.

Thanks man - believe me, I've been in the position some of these guys are. I've looked down at negative fans and thought they were ridiculous for their opinions. It's surreal being on this side of it. I remember trying to justify everything..."I'm sure they intentionally scaled down the playbook early in the year to not show their hand later or "I'm sure they know what they are doing drafting 3 pass-catchers in the second round"

 

And I'd probably STILL be doing that if this was still just the football stuff. The allegations and very likely predatory things that Snyder allowed or orchestrated is just too much. I would love to not have known about them or, even better, had them not happen so I could be saying "I'm sure Ryan Fitzpatrick will break out of who he's been for 15 years in the NFL and lead a team to the playoffs"

 

 

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

Whether or not you like carrots is a matter of personal taste. Whether or not you want everyone who grows carrots to end up unemployed and filing for backruptsy is not a matter of taste. It's a choice on how you want to perceive things and have it effect your life.

 

And old GF long time ago and I broke up...she was spiteful, I was pleasant. At one point she wrote me an email, lengthy one, talking about all the negative things that she felt towards me. I wrote back and basically told her that if she wants to view our relationship in a negative manner that's her choice, but in no way am I going to take part in that. I  said I chose to always view her in her best light, not because she deserved it but because that's exactly how I want and choose to live my life. She has bitterness, I moved on.

 

About a month later she sent me another lengthy email apologizing out the ying yang lol...said "you probably don't want to hear this, etc, etc" and owned up to all the stuff she was spewing. I said "Eh, what's done is done, don't worry about it." The idea that none of us have a choice over how we choose to perceive things in our lives is laughable. Unless we're talking about significant trauma when we were young children, it's a bit silly to pretend like we have no say in how we respond, act, perceive things in life.

 

That's not a great analogy because I don't WANT them to be fired, I just don't hope the team wins to save their jobs. I'm rooting against the team being successful, not for anyone to have bad things happen to him or her. If that's an outcome, so be it. How's this...once Ron or Jason lose their job in DC, I hope they both go on to win multiple championships and make money hand over fist. I truly do think they are both good people (from what I know) so I don't wish them to be perennial losers...that's just what I'd like to see Snyder continue to be. So far, he's got a 20-year track record. 

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I've spent a lot of the past 50 years devoting three hours of my time watching the Skins in the fall each week and can't imagine that will stop, strictly because of habit. However, I really do so now without any passion.

 

This league increasingly has bored the **** our of me.

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15 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Whether or not you like carrots is a matter of personal taste. Whether or not you want everyone who grows carrots to end up unemployed and filing for backruptsy is not a matter of taste. It's a choice on how you want to perceive things and have it effect your life.

 

And old GF long time ago and I broke up...she was spiteful, I was pleasant. At one point she wrote me an email, lengthy one, talking about all the negative things that she felt towards me. I wrote back and basically told her that if she wants to view our relationship in a negative manner that's her choice, but in no way am I going to take part in that. I  said I chose to always view her in her best light, not because she deserved it but because that's exactly how I want and choose to live my life. She has bitterness, I moved on.

 

About a month later she sent me another lengthy email apologizing out the ying yang lol...said "you probably don't want to hear this, etc, etc" and owned up to all the stuff she was spewing. I said "Eh, what's done is done, don't worry about it." The idea that none of us have a choice over how we choose to perceive things in our lives is laughable. Unless we're talking about significant trauma when we were young children, it's a bit silly to pretend like we have no say in how we respond, act, perceive things in life.

 

Liking carrots is not a matter of taste.  We don't choose our emotions, we don't choose what makes us gag.  That's just not true.  It's not analogous to your situation with your ex.

People don't choose self-defeating or self-harming feelings.  Full stop.

Source:  Have been therapist for past decade.

 

EDIT:  Also noticed that you completely ignored the abusive relationship part of my post.  Notable.

Edited by NewCliche21
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Winning might bring back the fans but, he has done so much institutional damage to the core of this franchise that it is very sad to witness. 
 

I don’t know the guy so it’s very hard for me to express my disdain for him and I feel bad for not liking a guy I don’t know but my god do I despise him.

 

I can forgive the losing seasons. I can suspend belief and pretend he didn’t know the corrupt culture of the team existed under his nose but this “Tanya is the CEO and I will step away and not have anything to do with the team. Tanya Tanya Tanya” bit is really pissing me off. 

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13 hours ago, hail2skins said:

I've spent a lot of the past 50 years devoting three hours of my time watching the Skins in the fall each week and can't imagine that will stop, strictly because of habit. However, I really do so now without any passion.

 

This league increasingly has bored the **** our of me.

 

This is a great way to put it.  It's been habitual, especially low for me in 2013 and 2014, rarely a point of joy.  I think the "YOU LIKE THAT?!" game and the go-ahead field goal against then-undefeated Pittsburgh last year are the only ones that made me forget about every other moment.

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1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

Liking carrots is not a matter of taste.  We don't choose our emotions, we don't choose what makes us gag.  That's just not true.  It's not analogous to your situation with your ex.

People don't choose self-defeating or self-harming feelings.  Full stop.

Source:  Have been therapist for past decade.

 

EDIT:  Also noticed that you completely ignored the abusive relationship part of my post.  Notable.

I'm shocked that a therapist would consider anything about the team to be a relationship. We joke about it, but to actually see a corporate entity as something to have a relationship with couldn't sound any less emotionally healthy.

 

The Washington Football Team, the NFL, and all sports are not about relationships. They're about making money. They support charities not because its the morally right thing to do, but because they want you to feel warm and fuzzy when you choose to give the corporate entity your money.

 

Calling them "they" is a misnomer, though. They are things, not people. I don't have a relationship with my car. I don't have a relationship with the team. I don't have a relationship with the car dealership. I don't have a relationship with the NFL. We're not friends because the team isn't a person, we don't care about each for any other reason than they want my attention, so that ultimately I will give the team money. I do have relationships with individual people in the car dealership. I can have relationships with the individual people in the corporate entity. Some of the individuals in those corporate entities suck, like Dan Snyder. Some of the individuals don't suck. That's because they are individuals.

 

When you listen to a music band, do you have a relationship with that band? The band used to play good music, but now they've sucked for 20 years, and it turns out the band's manager is human trash. When you buy tickets to go to their concert, and it turns out they still suck like they did the other 20 years, is the band abusing you?

 

When I choose to purchase items from Amazon or Walmart, I don't have a relationship with the companies. I think the companies' owners are selfish jerks. But I also like the individual people in the store who give genuine time and effort. I *want* them to succeed because they are good people.

 

Is Ron Rivera not a good person?

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1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

I'm shocked that a therapist would consider anything about the team to be a relationship. We joke about it, but to actually see a corporate entity as something to have a relationship with couldn't sound any less emotionally healthy.

 

The Washington Football Team, the NFL, and all sports are not about relationships. They're about making money. They support charities not because its the morally right thing to do, but because they want you to feel warm and fuzzy when you choose to give the corporate entity your money.

 

Calling them "they" is a misnomer, though. They are things, not people. I don't have a relationship with my car. I don't have a relationship with the team. I don't have a relationship with the car dealership. I don't have a relationship with the NFL. We're not friends because the team isn't a person, we don't care about each for any other reason than they want my attention, so that ultimately I will give the team money. I do have relationships with individual people in the car dealership. I can have relationships with the individual people in the corporate entity. Some of the individuals in those corporate entities suck, like Dan Snyder. Some of the individuals don't suck. That's because they are individuals.

 

When you listen to a music band, do you have a relationship with that band? The band used to play good music, but now they've sucked for 20 years, and it turns out the band's manager is human trash. When you buy tickets to go to their concert, and it turns out they still suck like they did the other 20 years, is the band abusing you?

 

When I choose to purchase items from Amazon or Walmart, I don't have a relationship with the companies. I think the companies' owners are selfish jerks. But I also like the individual people in the store who give genuine time and effort. I *want* them to succeed because they are good people.

 

Is Ron Rivera not a good person?

 

The amount of ways this has been interpreted is surprising.  Not your fault, I should've articulated my point better.  I'll give a more appropriate response later, on hold with an insurance company right now.

______________

Actually, I disagree with the premise of this comment independently of my original post.  People have attachments to things.  I love this team.  I love my country.  I have an emotional response when something negative or positive happens to either.

Some more notes:

Your insistence that these relationships don't exist doesn't change their existence.  Your attempt at redefinition of "they", which can be used to refer to any noun, is random.  Your attempt at redefining "relationships" is also curious. Bringing up whether or not Ron Rivera is a good person is completely unrelated.

You've got a couple of logical fallacies that are really precluding the establishment of your own argument here.  You've got ad hominem, slippery slope, red herring, strawman, and hasty generalization stand out pretty clearly.

Edited by NewCliche21
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Those long time fans aren’t coming back.

I laugh whenever I hear stadium talk because I don’t see local taxpayers footing the bill. Also, Dan has driven away most fans; so he couldn’t fund a stadium thru Psls.

 

If the team wins consistently; any fans drawn in, will likely be new fans.

 

The sexual harassment stuff may have been the final straw for some but his loss  of the fan base has been gradual thing; pretty much since Gibbs retired after the 07 season.

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On 8/23/2021 at 5:07 PM, thesubmittedone said:


Absolutely spot on. And I know this because if someone told me I would feel the way I do right now just two years ago, if not less, I would’ve said it was impossible, no way. 
 

Snyder has done to me what I sincerely thought impossible. I’m someone who lived and breathed this team for decades, as were you. I can only imagine there are many, many others who feel the same, if not worse. Unlike us, they just don’t care at all anymore, not even enough to be bothered by any success. They probably never posted on message boards and/or social media as much as us to give a crap about talking about this, either. We can’t stand Snyder to the point that it has affected how we engage with the team itself, something I was able to separate him from in my mind for years. But, yeah, regarding the others this is clearly reflected in how the Stadium has looked in terms of fan participation the last few years as well as the decrease in revenue gained relative to the rest of the NFL. 
 

Those who are still here will be vocal and enthusiastic, which will make them feel like they’re the majority just by virtue of the environment. And, of course, the always fun “fan labeling” that comes with it where they actually believe they fan better than other fans (much of which makes me ashamed because I see myself and the similar type of fan I used to be in it). 
 

But there’s no question in my mind Snyder has destroyed a massive portion of this fanbase. What percentage exactly, I don’t know. But it’s significant. I honestly think that if we start winning consistently most of the fans will be new, younger, ones that got attached to the modern branding as well. 
 

You never know, though. There are certainly quality football people within the organization that you can’t help but root for (as there always were in the past). Maybe our minds get changed. Knowing how I feel now and how I thought that to always be impossible, I won’t count anything out. It’s just… that guy has done so much wrong to so many people I can’t stand the idea that he even gets another chance at success with anyone. Like you said, Wright and Rivera are collateral damage. It’s not their fault, but he’s lost that to me. He doesn’t deserve another reset in the Snyder Cycle, no matter how better revised this version seems (in comparison to other Snyder Cycle resets, not necessarily the NFL in general) on the surface.  
 

For me, personally, it goes even deeper in that the fans themselves will piss me off to no end if there’s any semblance of success because they’ll be crediting it to some absurd quality of coaching/staff nonsense they have no idea about (even worse Snyder will be credited for “making these great hires”) instead of the fact that Snyder was forced into a situation where his toxicity doesn’t corrupt the entire organization and these hires were able to actually fulfill their roles for a longer period of time than anyone else ever had the luxury of. Yuck. But I know that’s just me, lol. Pretty amazing that Snyder has gotten me to this point. 

Dan Snyder literally killed the Redskins.

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On 8/24/2021 at 10:20 AM, NewCliche21 said:

 

Liking carrots is not a matter of taste.  We don't choose our emotions, we don't choose what makes us gag.  That's just not true.  It's not analogous to your situation with your ex.

People don't choose self-defeating or self-harming feelings.  Full stop.

Source:  Have been therapist for past decade.

 

EDIT:  Also noticed that you completely ignored the abusive relationship part of my post.  Notable.

Correct we don't chose our emotions but we do have the ability to harness the unhealthy emotions and not let them effect us. You don't have to respond or react to a  negative emotion. Put your negative emotions to bed and move on!

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