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A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread


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Hurley seems a rather uninspired choice. The Panthers were a good team, but they weren't a perennial Super Bowl team. I get familiarity and I get comfort, but I think if he was the guy then we'd have heard about him being brought in for interviews elsewhere. What I've heard speculated is that Hurley is a very good administrator and maybe we do need that organizational guy, but I don't know that should be the top qualification for a GM choice.

35 minutes ago, owa said:

I don't understand why people care about this so much.  We did okay this year and didn't even have a GM.  It sounds like Rivera was calling Hurney a lot to ask how to do this and that so if Rivera wants to bring him in to help off-load some of his administrative responsibilities, I think it is a good move.  I couldn't care less what the guy's title will be or if we have a structure that fits fan's expectations.  Ron was hired to run the show so just have to roll with it and see how it goes.  I hope Smith stays but if he doesn't, it wasn't like he was making the rounds on the interview circuit this time around.  Others (i.e. other teams) must not feel he is ready as well.  I mean look at it this way...why is Rivera calling Hurney to ask how to do stuff?  If Smith was ready, it seems like that would have been unnecessary. 

I think it matters because we seem to have turned the corner on drafting the last couple of years and I think many are worried that we could do worse. Kyle Smith has led a couple of solid drafts in a row (at least on paper). If we change we want someone demonstrably better. I'm not sure the Panthers in recent years have been a testament to great drafting and talent acquisition. 

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

None of this feels good and I’m a huge Rivera guy. That’s just going on what we know, idk why we have to feel the need to drink the Kool-Aid just bc we “believe in Ron”. Who cares. I’m 100% behind Rivera but this move smells bad at first glance. 

Yep got to agree if Hurney is brought in and titled GM. He’s a glorified advisor and admin/ops assistant to Rivera. Which is fine, but not under the header GM.

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50 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Yep got to agree if Hurney is brought in and titled GM. He’s a glorified advisor and admin/ops assistant to Rivera. Which is fine, but not under the header GM.

Hurney does things like Rivera thinks.  Smith can easily get pissed off and not be willing to allow any stain on his young executive resume. Young Executives have too much hero potential and older executive administrators are hired to complete the chain as dependable team players. 

Edited by TheShredder
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5 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Hurney does things like Rivera thinks.  Remember when Carolina drafted Josh Norman and he played excellent in that defensive system.  Norman wanted a big second contract and RR and Hurney let him walk.  Bruce Allen regime over pays him and he never makes a Pro Bowl and quickly gets lazy and slow.  Those types of decisions need a fall guy and someone to take the heat.  Rivera doesn't want to do that with a young guy like Kyle Smith.  Smith can easily get pissed off and not be willing to allow any stain on his young executive resume. Young Executives have too much hero potential and older executive administrators are hired to complete the chain as dependable team players. 

Gettleman let him walk not Hurney.  :)

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If Ron is making all the football decisions (coach centric), Rob Rogers is the contract/cap guy and Kyle Smith is the scouting/player personnel guy what exactly is Hurney’s job?  Is this the end of Kyle?

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9 minutes ago, Guard Bum said:

If Ron is making all the football decisions (coach centric), Rob Rogers is the contract/cap guy and Kyle Smith is the scouting/player personnel guy what exactly is Hurney’s job?  Is this the end of Kyle?

You answered your question. Kyle Smith is(or should)be the personnel guy. Rivera can sign off on who the team picks/signs but there is no way a head coach can also fulfill all the scouting duties full time that a personnel guy is doing, especially during the season.

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.....very very few people said anything like the above lol. Mostly the people clinging to Haskins were mad about O’Connell. And MANY here were happy to see someone leave who had not only survived but thrived in Snyder’s viper nest for 17 years. 
 

Talk about a strawman.

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50 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

I’d be ok with Hurney if he acted as an administrator rather than a full time GM.

Agreed....this is far from a sexy hire and screams of "good ole boy network". On the surface, based on what I've read, I'd be curious as to how Hurney is an upgrade over Kyle Smith or some of the other candidates. This is a hire based on familiarity which should make everyone even more afraid that Cam Newton is not far behind.....

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16 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

This is a hire based on familiarity which should make everyone even more afraid that Cam Newton is not far behind....

I think RR knows Cam better than anyone...

 

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28 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I hear you and agree that the sky isn't falling.

 

That said, there were many of us who said that Haslett, Barry, and Manusky were uninspired/awful choices... and we were right. So, we may not be right about the people we let go, but we are sometimes correct in our assessment of hires.

 

Hurney is the easy choice. Is he the right choice? I dunno.

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9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I wouldn't go to either extreme. The question in scenario 1 is who is the next guy up. We only found out about Kyle S because we messed up the Scot M so badly. But suddenly he has emerged as a scouting hero. Maybe we have another good scout in the wings. Or maybe we have scenarion2 that you mention. Or maybe Hurney is just the GM he was in carolina but we are drafting all pro / HOF players in the first 2 or 3 rounds vs just drafting above average players. What scares me is he only drafted Will Grier, Cam Newton and Jimmy Clausen at QB and only one of those has worked out to this point. Scott Turner did find 2 guys as UDFAs though (and I wonder how involved Hurney was in those pickups). 

 

But what I was bringing up as a problem with Kyle S, he's not great at every position. It seems that Hurley has drafted good players at DE, QB, LB, T, C, RB, DB, WR. That's a whole team. Its not one draft but he's shown ability to pick players. And its not just top of the draft - some of these guys are in bottom half of the first and second and third rounds. It'd be great to mix that with Smith's late round finds and UDFAs, but lets be real. Smith's late round finds have been guys we are happy they didn't trip over their own shoelaces. They haven't been James Thrash type players who make a name for themselves in this league. We just cut SDH who was seen as a late round gem for quite a while. 

https://wholeninesports.com/2019/03/23/marty-hurney-panthers-draft-history/

 

Hurney did a great job with 1st rounders.  Nailing picks in mid round that consistently isn't as easy as it may seem.  He did a great job, and you're right, at a variety of positions.  This core carried that team.

 

Beyond the first round, a pretty poor track record.  Norman, hardy (ignoring he is a head case and going off solely performance) and munnerlyn were great late round picks.  The rest was pretty terrible.

 

Now maybe his role in carolina was to defer to the scouts and he handled the rest of the gm duties.  And a lot of info today is suggesting he might not be involved with personnel here.  But isn't the GM responsible for the performance of personnel dept, and making changes if performance in that area is poor?  It didn't seem to get much better during his tenure.

 

Assuming hurney is not handling personnel here, why hire him?   Bc it seems that would eliminate the potential for cowden or schoen, bc I doubt they leave for any position other than GM.  Could a guy like that not handle the non personnel side?  Bc if they could, why not hire one of them?  Everything I've read about them suggest strong personality traits that I assume could play the non personnel role as a GM.  And they both have a decent amount of experience.  I think their time is now.

 

Maybe KS stays for the long haul, or maybe they replace KS at some point with someone equally as talented at drafting.  But right now, I feel this move is underwhelming and I feel they could've done better. 

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15 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Hurney did a great job with 1st rounders.  Nailing picks in mid round that consistently isn't as easy as it may seem.  He did a great job, and you're right, at a variety of positions.  This core carried that team.

I think this is underselling what he did with first rounders and overselling what Smith did with late round guys. 

 

Hurney drafted all pro guys multiple times at multiple positions from all around the first round for a decade plus. That's great. Smith found some cool guys in the back of the draft who could have gone earlier. That's value but it's not what Scot M was talking about your team around. Even the best of his late round finds, Roullier is a guy we were openly debating whether he deserved to be signed (before the contract). This team hasn't been a breeding ground for all pros like Carolina was since Gibbs 1. I don't think that should be ignored 

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45 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

So another Bruce Allen type of role. 

No not a buddy to the owner but someone who puts together the FO and scouting staff, and oversees contracts.

 

 

Edited by JoggingGod
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Per Jogging's Post I think that's why there's a hold up.  Hurney will be here a short time and the main piece is one of the others.  I've got my eye on Cowden or Stokes.  I don't see Mayhew filling that out.  Stokes may have the best chance.  

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6 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Per Jogging's Post I think that's why there's a hold up.  Hurney will be here a short time and the main piece is one of the others.  I've got my eye on Cowden or Stokes.  I don't see Mayhew filling that out.  Stokes may have the best chance.  

 

If its Hurney+Cowden Ill be doing backflips.

 

If Kyle stays too I may just have to make another "I think it moved" post 🤣

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7 minutes ago, bh32 said:

Why are people flipping out over the Hurney hire? He will have nothing to do with player evaluations and has said it himself.

Because once you give the GM title to someone, we potentially closed the door on younger guys who could handle the non personnel side AND have a great track record with personnel.  Schoen and Cowden aren't coming here to be assistant GM.  Maybe KS or someone who also has a good track record with personnel will be groomed to take over one day, but they could also end up getting squeeze out by a new regime.  Too early to tell.  But at the very least, it seems we could've done better, and the fact that we settled on a guy that the decision maker knows from his prior job is a dynamic that our organization hasn't had much success with in recent years.

 

But I'll give Ron the benefit of the doubt and hope it all works out for the best.  

 

We also don't know the long term vision of these moves.  Maybe they have identified younger guys, maybe even KS, that will take the reigns from hurney. I'm sure they hired MH with a vision of how to construct, or keep intact over the long haul, a productive personnel department.  Or maybe RR settled for familiarity and wants to fight with people he knows beat.  None of us know how this will shake out, and the MH hire might turn out to be a solid move depending how the rest of the FO rounds out and moves forward.  However, we've had too many instances of one step forward, two steps backwards, and of questionable decision making that it's only natural to be disappointed when something doesn't seem to add up.  Hopefully RR proves that times have truly changed.

 

 

7 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

If its Hurney+Cowden Ill be doing backflips.

 

If Kyle stays too I may just have to make another "I think it moved" post 🤣

I'm with you, if we bring in cowden and KS seems be in the fold for the foreseeable future, I'll go from disappointed to ecstatic.   These next few days will be interesting.

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3 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

Because once you give the GM title to someone, we potentially closed the door on younger guys who could handle the non personnel side AND have a great track record with personnel.  Schoen and Cowden aren't coming here to be assistant GM.  Maybe KS or someone who also has a good track record with personnel will be groomed to take over one day, but they could also end up getting squeeze out by a new regime.  Too early to tell.  But at the very least, it seems we could've done better, and the fact that we settled on a guy that the decision maker knows from his prior job is a dynamic that our organization hasn't had much success with in recent years.

 

But I'll give Ron the benefit of the doubt and hope it all works out for the best.  

 

We also don't know the long term vision of these moves.  Maybe they have identified younger guys, maybe even KS, that will take the reigns from hurney. I'm sure they hired MH with a vision of how to construct, or keep intact over the long haul, a productive personnel department.  Or maybe RR settled for familiarity and wants to fight with people he knows beat.  None of us know how this will shake out, and the MH hire might turn out to be a solid move depending how the rest of the FO rounds out and moves forward.  However, we've had too many instances of one step forward, two steps backwards, and of questionable decision making that it's only natural to be disappointed when something doesn't seem to add up.  Hopefully RR proves that times have truly changed.

 

 

I'm with you, if we bring in cowden and KS seems be in the fold for the foreseeable future, I'll go from disappointed to ecstatic.   These next few days will be interesting.

Hurney won't be here long,So i don't think it will really affect a young talent evaluator from taking the assistant GM role.

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30 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think this is underselling what he did with first rounders and overselling what Smith did with late round guys. 

 

Hurney drafted all pro guys multiple times at multiple positions from all around the first round for a decade plus. That's great. Smith found some cool guys in the back of the draft who could have gone earlier. That's value but it's not what Scot M was talking about your team around. Even the best of his late round finds, Roullier is a guy we were openly debating whether he deserved to be signed (before the contract). This team hasn't been a breeding ground for all pros like Carolina was since Gibbs 1. I don't think that should be ignored 

I was pretty clear I think MH did an awesome job with his first rounders. 

 

I think you are selling KS short on our late rounders: settle, stroman, holcomb, harmon, moreland, and curl are all day 3 guys in just the last 3 years.   Plus the jury is still out on a lot of the late picks in 2020: ismael, hudson, JSW, AGG .  Plus mclaurin in the 3rd which was arguably the steal of that draft, and gibson may be ones of the steals of his draft.  As you alluded to, that's the value that is necessary to build a winner.  Imagine if KS had a tenure as long as MH did in carolina, and what 7-8 more years of value like that will do to our depth chart.  Wow.

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