So, how do you reopen schools? (Preschool to High School & even College)

[Xameil]

7 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

100%

 

I mean, it wasnt enough that he botched it the first go around, now he's coming for the children.  There's just no way opening schools under the current climate wont result in total disaster.  

Its disaster depending on the region. My region appears to be mainly in the clear. I would hate that my region gets held up because some idiots cant use common sense

[China]

The school reopening debate reveals that we don’t listen to teachers about schools

 

President Trump insisted on Tuesday that America’s schools reopen for in-person education this fall. He accused those opposed of thinking, “it’s going to be good for them politically, so they keep schools closed. No way,” and proceeded to pressure a school principal taking part in the White House event to hold in-person classes full time. On Wednesday, he followed up by tweeting a threat to withhold federal funds from schools that aren’t open.

 

Trump placed himself squarely into the debate among parents, administrators, doctors and state and local politicians about what the best course for America’s children is amid the continuing covid-19 pandemic. But one voice has been largely missing from this debate: America’s teachers.

 

The disregard of teachers’ shared professional expertise and practical knowledge is no accident. It reflects the way that, instead of treating teachers like other American professionals, society has long blamed them for the failings of schools and worked to constrain them through bureaucracy and regulations.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[The Evil Genius]

120 days ago the Maga ****tard was still denying COVID-19 in the US (only 15 cases..its nothing..it's not worse than the flu).

 

What the **** does he or his apologists know.

 

BTW it sickens me to see private schools get one cent of public money.  <-- this coming from someone who went to Norfork Academy for 10th grade (and mostly enjoyed it).

Edited July 10, 2020 by The Evil Genius

[TheGoodBits]

They know. But they’re lying to us. Shocked I tell you, shocked! 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/11/politics/cdc-documents-warn-high-risk-schools-reopening/index.html

[Springfield]

6 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

They know. But they’re lying to us. Shocked I tell you, shocked! 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/11/politics/cdc-documents-warn-high-risk-schools-reopening/index.html

From the article:

Quote

The CDC's guidelines for K-12 schools encourage hygiene, the use of cloth face coverings, and staying home when appropriate. It also suggests staggered scheduling, a back-up staffing plan, modified seating layouts to allow social distancing, physical barriers and closing communal spaces.

The current guidelines, last updated in May, say the "lowest risk" setting for Covid-19 spread is virtual-only learning options, while listing full-sized, in-person classes that lack social distancing as the "highest risk" setting.

So nobody is proposing full sized, in-person classes that lack social distancing. At least we where I live. I don’t get what narrative that CNN is trying to push here. Sure seems like they’re trying to say “Internal CDC documents warn full reopening of schools is 'highest risk' for coronavirus spread”. No **** it is, which is why we aren’t even doing that.

[Elessar78]

So, even Fauci said he thinks schools should re-open* with safety protocols, because, and I'm paraphrasing, there are benefits that outweigh the risks.

 

Multiple studies have found that as long as safety protocols are followed, schools in countries that have reopened have shown low prevalence of transmission kid-to-kid, kid-to-adult.

 

With that said, teachers are driving the bus on this so to speak. If you don't feel safe, are not made to feel safe, how can you teach well? A bigger concern, that I've seen echoed by multiple people, that "essential" workers and ones who have worked throughout the pandemic develop a false sense of security. These people become lax about  distancing, hygiene, masks, etc.

 

I've tried to be about the science on this from the start. From what I'm reading/hearing the science says it's safe to reopen schools AS LONG AS PROTOCOLS are followed. But even the studies seem to have a caveat that they were performed in countries of low prevalence—we can't be sure of how it extrapolates to areas of high prevalence.

 

There's also the issue of ACTUAL human behavior. We went GREEN here and sports had certain rules (like only one parent, social distancing during sports activities, etc) but observance was spotty. There's actual fatigue on the part of the "enforcers".

[bearrock]

5 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

I've tried to be about the science on this from the start. From what I'm reading/hearing the science says it's safe to reopen schools AS LONG AS PROTOCOLS are followed. 

 

Does the calculus change when those evidence are from countries that had their infection under control and in very small numbers and we have a raging spread right now?  Are we really comparing apples to apples?

 

Also, the steady drumbeat of the village idiots who continue to claim that this is all overblown somehow persists even now.  It's a pretty good bet that some adults in the building will be of that ilk.  How confident can we be in their interest in complying with the safety protocols if they think the whole thing is a hoax to begin with?

[TheGoodBits]

I don’t think there’s been really any studies that show indoor transmission is significantly reduced/eliminated with CDC safety protocols in place. If someone wants to point one out that would be great. I do know there are numerous examples of summer camps that have chosen to open under the CDC’s guidelines and have ended up with dozens of kids and staff infected. 
 

Here’s the reality: while limiting times spend in communal areas, spacing decks 6 feet apart, and encouraging kids to wear masks can help slow down the transmission of the virus, if kids are spending all day in a class together, even with masks, it will spread among that classroom at the very least. Likely beyond that. So perhaps you end up with “only” 20% of the school infected vs 60%. That’s basically the CDC’s version of “moderate risk.” But that  school is still shutting down when that outbreak occurs. 
 

 

[Springfield]

3 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Does the calculus change when those evidence are from countries that had their infection under control and in very small numbers and we have a raging spread right now?  Are we really comparing apples to apples?

 

Also, the steady drumbeat of the village idiots who continue to claim that this is all overblown somehow persists even now.  It's a pretty good bet that some adults in the building will be of that ilk.  How confident can we be in their interest in complying with the safety protocols if they think the whole thing is a hoax to begin with?

 

I think the narrative that we have a RAGING virus in this country is irresponsible and too broad. We have several hot spots that could even be considered epicenters. This virus has seemingly moved from one hotspot to another. There's no reason in my opinion to punish areas that have flattened and continue to lower transmission because these epicenters don't have things under control. The virus has shown itself to be very local/regional. What is safe in an area like Fairfax County or much of the New England states is probably not safe in areas of Florida or Arizona.

 

I'll also add that I'm tired of hearing about the whole wrangling of children who refuse to wear masks. You think that's hard? Wrangle ADULTS who refuse to wear masks. A child to can be sent to detention or be suspended from school if they are unsafe. What are you gonna do to an adult (or group of adults) who refuse to wear masks. You gonna call the cops on them when they're in your store? You gonna try and kick them out yourself? Dealing with children during a pandemic is exponentially more easy than dealing with stubborn adults.

 

Personal, anecdotal story: I've been going to they gym for the last two weeks. They have mechanisms in place to separate people. Masks required when not working out. 3 of every 4 treadmills are closed. Only 3 benches where 8 used to be. Only one person per cable machine. Only 2 smith machines open where 3 used to be open. All that. The first week, the gym employees were enforcing these rules. If they saw people in the bench area that weren't using a bench then they'd usher them away. If they saw more than one person using a cable machine then they'd tell them they had to wait. Well now, it's a free for all. They aren't enforcing the rules any longer. The machines that are closed don't get used, but the bench area and cable machine area that's easier to pack people into don't get spread out like the did a week and a half ago.

 

Kids are much easier to control through this than adults.

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

18 minutes ago, Springfield said:

The virus has shown itself to be very local/regional. What is safe in an area like Fairfax County or much of the New England states is probably not safe in areas of Florida or Arizona.

Maybe, but that’s what people in Florida,  Texas, and Arizona were saying a few weeks back.  I guess we’ll find out.

 

18 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Kids are much easier to control through this than adults.

Not sure about this argument....

[Springfield]

4 minutes ago, visionary said:

Maybe, but that’s what people in Florida,  Texas, and Arizona were saying a few weeks back.  I guess we’ll find out.

 

I don't disagree, but I will point out that the states of FL, TX and AZ have also notoriously shunned masks and precautionary procedures because it hadn't effected them yet. States like NY, MA and such felt the pain of Covid early in the pandemic and thus took lots of precautions to prevent its spread. Also, it seems to me that the epicenters get hit hard and fast and then the transmission dies off (sadly, because people are probably dying off as result). It was that way with Italy, NY, Spain, etc.

 

It's tough to judge the US vs Europe because the US is so large. One state can be the equivalent of one country in Europe both in land area and population size. Given the lack of measures by the federal government, it's no surprise that there's been a non-uniform spread of the virus throughout the country.

 

And hell, this is just me trying to be an optimist.

[Jumbo]

devos on tv this morning...my usual response to trump helpers...left unspecified  due to graphic nature

 

two major hopes i have are that is there a blue tsunami in 2020, and that afterwards the next admin/congress/state legislatures and much of the populace will devote maximum available effort, relentlessly, in applying the most debilitating legal forms of accountability possible and across the board personally, publicly, socially, economically, etc., on all elected goper trump-helping officials 'till the end of their days

 

make it a widespread long-lasting energetically sustained movement  

 

 

 

[Elessar78]

 

1 hour ago, Elessar78 said:

 

 But even the studies seem to have a caveat that they were performed in countries of low prevalence—we can't be sure of how it extrapolates to areas of high prevalence.

 

There's also the issue of ACTUAL human behavior. We went GREEN here and sports had certain rules (like only one parent, social distancing during sports activities, etc) but observance was spotty. There's actual fatigue on the part of the "enforcers".

 

53 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Does the calculus change when those evidence are from countries that had their infection under control and in very small numbers and we have a raging spread right now?  Are we really comparing apples to apples?

 

Also, the steady drumbeat of the village idiots who continue to claim that this is all overblown somehow persists even now.  It's a pretty good bet that some adults in the building will be of that ilk.  How confident can we be in their interest in complying with the safety protocols if they think the whole thing is a hoax to begin with?

See quoted portion above. I agree, there are still holes in what we understand. Again, Fauci and, public health guru under Obama, Andy Slavitt if we can, we should reopen safely, because apart from physical health and educational benefits, there are also social and mental benefits for kids being in school. A survey of epidemiologists said that this is a regional thing. Not all areas of the US are AZ, TX, FL, CA, WA right now.

[TheGoodBits]

My personal (very good) theory about why the current hotspots are where they are in indoor vs outdoor transmission. All of the major outbreaks are in areas where it’s just too damn hot to do things outside. Restaurants open up in New England? Great everyone eat outside. Restaurants opening in FL, TX, AZ, and SoCal during the summer won’t have widespread outdoor use of outdoor dining. 
 

This is the same reason flu season is in the winter: people come indoors. 
 

Schools are inside. 

[youngestson]

45 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Kids are much easier to control through this than adults.

Not even a little. 

[Elessar78]

45 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

I think the narrative that we have a RAGING virus in this country is irresponsible and too broad. We have several hot spots that could even be considered epicenters. This virus has seemingly moved from one hotspot to another. There's no reason in my opinion to punish areas that have flattened and continue to lower transmission because these epicenters don't have things under control. The virus has shown itself to be very local/regional. What is safe in an area like Fairfax County or much of the New England states is probably not safe in areas of Florida or Arizona.

 

I'll also add that I'm tired of hearing about the whole wrangling of children who refuse to wear masks. You think that's hard? Wrangle ADULTS who refuse to wear masks. A child to can be sent to detention or be suspended from school if they are unsafe. What are you gonna do to an adult (or group of adults) who refuse to wear masks. You gonna call the cops on them when they're in your store? You gonna try and kick them out yourself? Dealing with children during a pandemic is exponentially more easy than dealing with stubborn adults.

 

Personal, anecdotal story: I've been going to they gym for the last two weeks. They have mechanisms in place to separate people. Masks required when not working out. 3 of every 4 treadmills are closed. Only 3 benches where 8 used to be. Only one person per cable machine. Only 2 smith machines open where 3 used to be open. All that. The first week, the gym employees were enforcing these rules. If they saw people in the bench area that weren't using a bench then they'd usher them away. If they saw more than one person using a cable machine then they'd tell them they had to wait. Well now, it's a free for all. They aren't enforcing the rules any longer. The machines that are closed don't get used, but the bench area and cable machine area that's easier to pack people into don't get spread out like the did a week and a half ago.

 

Kids are much easier to control through this than adults.

True, there are hotspots. They became hotspots because people did not follow the rules. Many many other areas of the country where there is low prevalence are also not following the rules. In my mind, it makes it a matter of time before they become hotspots.

 

Your anecdote about the gym—how do you know you and your gym mates are not asymps?

[visionary]

6 minutes ago, youngestson said:

Not even a little. 

I can’t help thinking of all the stuff kids would get up to when I was in school when the teacher wasn’t paying attention, or on the bus.  And that’s just older students.  

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, Springfield said:

I think the narrative that we have a RAGING virus in this country is irresponsible and too broad. 

 

We also have to be realistic when we own up to the magnitude of how bad it is in this country.  Those hotspots look like hotspots because they are a mega red flare of viral activity, but the non-hotspots are not out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination. 

 

Fairfax county with a population of 1+ million had 70+ new cases yesterday.  That's the same as the worst days for South Korea over the last month, a country with population of 50+ million. 

 

New York City feels like they are in control now cause they have it down all the way to 500-800 new cases per day?  It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.  Some parts of the country are in Defcon 1.  Pretty much everywhere is still at various levels of Defcon.

Edited July 12, 2020 by bearrock

[dfitzo53]

I see both sides of the school issue.

 

On the one hand, virtual instruction had a lot of problems.  There is almost no way kids will make anything approaching a full year of growth if the school year is largely online.  Even worse, the students who make the least growth are likely to be the students who are already at risk - students with low socio-economic status, students of color, special education students and English language learners.  This is not even taking into account the serious social and emotional benefits schooling provides.  I'm lucky we have two kids who are similar in age and get along very well together.  I can imagine only children (and their parents) have been going batty for months at this point.  For some kids school is also their only safe place, either physically, emotionally, or both.

 

On the other hand, I worry that virus transmission is going to be a more significant risk in practice than some experts are willing to admit.  The school where I teach is in a zip code that's fairly diverse in terms of politics and socio-economic status.  At the Giant I usually go to, which serves the middle to upper-middle class, everyone is wearing a mask and people are for the most part careful about distancing and other precautions.  I stopped into the mom-and-pop grocery store near my house (same zip code as school) yesterday because I just needed one item, and it was a very different story.  Some people didn't have masks at all.  Others, including some employees, had a mask covering their mouth but not their nose.  There was little to no attempt at distancing.

 

Probably not coincidentally, our zip code has one of the five highest positive case counts in the city according to a recent report.  I'm definitely nervous about going back to school.

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Springfield]

1 hour ago, Elessar78 said:

True, there are hotspots. They became hotspots because people did not follow the rules. Many many other areas of the country where there is low prevalence are also not following the rules. In my mind, it makes it a matter of time before they become hotspots.

 

Your anecdote about the gym—how do you know you and your gym mates are not asymps?

I don’t. All it is, is a calculated risk. That’s all we can ask for at this point. That and hoping that once we get caught up in it then the symptoms aren’t too bad.

[techboy]

2 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

 

Here’s the reality: while limiting times spend in communal areas, spacing decks 6 feet apart, and encouraging kids to wear masks can help slow down the transmission of the virus, if kids are spending all day in a class together, even with masks, it will spread among that classroom at the very least.

 

At a faculty meeting last week, my principal shared that Fairfax is not going to do 6 feet... We're doing 3. 

[TheGoodBits]

1 minute ago, techboy said:

 

At a faculty meeting last week, my principal shared that Fairfax is not going to do 6 feet... We're doing 3. 

Might as well tell the kids to all cough on each other and get it over with. 
 

(practically, I don’t think there’s a huge difference between 3 and 6 feet. Everyone in the class is getting sick regardless) 

Edited July 12, 2020 by skinsfan_1215

[dfitzo53]

1 minute ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Might as well tell the kids to all cough on each other and get it over with. 

We were told the same thing in Baltimore City. Supposedly the CDC says 3 feet is almost as effective as 6 if everyone is wearing a mask properly.