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So, how do you reopen schools? (Preschool to High School & even College)


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4 minutes ago, Springfield said:


I don’t know how teaching pay scales work but is it possible that they are vastly underpaid compared to their college equivalents because they only work for 8 months out of the year?

 

Maybe their way to increased pay is working a full year.

I've worked with many teachers over the years who wait tables in the summer to save money for decorating classrooms and the things they need that aren't provided. 

I see your point, but those extremely efficient folks are necessary in my industry when the teenagers don't want to work, which is summer (everyone has open availability), but when the schedule comes out start trying to give away their shifts. 🙄

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26 minutes ago, Springfield said:


I don’t know how teaching pay scales work but is it possible that they are vastly underpaid compared to their college equivalents because they only work for 8 months out of the year?

 

Maybe their way to increased pay is working a full year.

Lol not around here....I know some teachers around here are paid close to 100k for only 9 months of work....and maybe 8 hours a day...

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21 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm trying to draw an apples to apples comparison, which is hard when teachers only work (roughly) 9 months out of the year and get a multitude of time off in that span as well. There are at least two, week long breaks, every single holiday one can imagine as well as multiple padded days off. Obviously some are "teacher work days", but I could imagine that a savvy teacher can wrangle that into a day off to themselves.

 

So this article states:

Quote

For example registered nurses—another career historically dominated by women—make far more than teachers today, earning an average annual wage of $73,550 in 2017, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Nursing shortages in some parts of the U.S. have led to signing bonuses, free housing, tuition reimbursement and other perks, while teacher shortages have contributed to some states increasing class sizes, shortening school weeks and enacting emergency certification for people who aren’t trained as educators.

Nurses are paid, on average, $73,550

 

Quote

Nationwide, the estimated average public-school teacher’s salary is now $58,950, according to the National Center for Education Statistics—a respectable income in many locales, but actual wages vary widely by state, and often do not track with costs of living. 

Teachers are paid, on average, $58,950

 

Now to compare the two (both which I find to be underpaid, just on the drop), If you add an extra 30% to that $58,950 for working a full year then you get an average of $76,635. I don't think that nurses get a 3 month break in the middle of summer. Hell, I bet nurses are worked to the bone, especially in times like this. I bet nurses haven't refused to come in to work and serve the people who they've educated themselves to serve. I'll also add, that teachers in Fairfax County get a full pension, can accrue paid time off and other nice benefits for working for the county. I doubt nurses get a pension or anything provided to them in the same respect that teachers do.

 

So aside from BOTH teachers and nurses being underpaid, possibly because of their gender, I think that according to the article you posted that teachers don't really have it all that bad. Obviously teaching salaries and comp plans vary based on locality so it's difficult to make complete comparisons. I do think that people often forget that teachers simply work less than most other professions, which should directly be reflected in their pay.

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3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

I'm trying to draw an apples to apples comparison, which is hard when teachers only work (roughly) 9 months out of the year and get a multitude of time off in that span as well. There are at least two, week long breaks, every single holiday one can imagine as well as multiple padded days off. Obviously some are "teacher work days", but I could imagine that a savvy teacher can wrangle that into a day off to themselves.

 

Ya'll need to stop with this "they don't work a lot" nonsense, how many of them have to go home to grade papers?  It's salary, not hourly, there's no overtime for that.

 

How much more are teachers in Vegas making right now for their plan to deal with overcrowding?

 

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/mar/30/back-school-and-back-again-how-do-year-round-sched/

 

Quote

In a typical school schedule, classes begin Aug. 25 and end June 4, followed by a 10-week summer break.

In a year-round school such as Ries Elementary, each grade level is broken down into five tracks, or groupings of students. At any given time, students from four tracks attend school, while those in the fifth track are off for a three-week break.

Despite the year-round schedule, students attend school the same number of days (180) as students who attend schools on a nine-month calendar. The year-round students’ 10-week summer break is broken up as several three-week breaks throughout the year.

 

$39,292

 

https://www.indeed.com/career/teacher/salaries/Las-Vegas--NV

 

 

3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

So this article states:

Nurses are paid, on average, $73,550

 

Teachers are paid, on average, $58,950

 

Now to compare the two (both which I find to be underpaid, just on the drop), If you add an extra 30% to that $58,950 for working a full year then you get an average of $76,635. I don't think that nurses get a 3 month break in the middle of summer. Hell, I bet nurses are worked to the bone, especially in times like this. I bet nurses haven't refused to come in to work and serve the people who they've educated themselves to serve. I'll also add, that teachers in Fairfax County get a full pension, can accrue paid time off and other nice benefits for working for the county. I doubt nurses get a pension or anything provided to them in the same respect that teachers do.

 

That's Fairfax, the article talks about how some others states are still cutting education budgets.  I don't believe applying broadscale averages to the lowest income areas in the country is applicable to your point.

 

3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

So aside from BOTH teachers and nurses being underpaid, possibly because of their gender, I think that according to the article you posted that teachers don't really have it all that bad. Obviously teaching salaries and comp plans vary based on locality so it's difficult to make complete comparisons. I do think that people often forget that teachers simply work less than most other professions, which should directly be reflected in their pay.

 

$58,950 for a job that in many cases ask for a Master's Degree?

 

https://online.merrimack.edu/high-school-teacher-in-massachusetts/

 

Quote

Massachusetts has a structured, tiered system for teachers. Meaning to earn a professional license, teachers must earn a master’s degree and pass the pertinent parts of the Massachusetts Test for Educator Licensure (MTEL). A master’s degree is not required to begin a career as a high school teacher in Massachusetts. Teachers must earn a bachelor’s degree and pass the MTEL in their subject area. However, teachers must eventually earn a master’s degree in secondary education to earn the professional license needed to continue as teacher in the state.

 

Teachers are underpaid because they are underappreciated and easiest budget to cut.  Work more, get paid more. Sure.

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25 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I'm trying to draw an apples to apples comparison

 

Just wondering what percentage of public school teachers have two year degrees.  I know that a lot of RNs do.  (In theory, around 9 months from now, I'll be one of them.)  

 

And "nurse" includes LPNs, who don't have a college degree at all.  

 

Yes, a lot of nurses have four year (or more) degrees.  I assume the percentage is growing.  But I would suspect that it's still less than half.  

 

Whereas a quick check says that 58% of public school teachers hold graduate degrees.  

Edited by Larry
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15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ya'll need to stop with this "they don't work a lot" nonsense, how many of them have to go home to grade papers?  It's salary, not hourly, there's no overtime for that.

 

How much more are teachers in Vegas making right now for their plan to deal with overcrowding?

 

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/mar/30/back-school-and-back-again-how-do-year-round-sched/

 

 

$39,292

 

https://www.indeed.com/career/teacher/salaries/Las-Vegas--NV

 

 

 

That's Fairfax, the article talks about how some others states are still cutting education budgets.  I don't believe applying broadscale averages to the lowest income areas in the country is applicable to your point.

 

 

$58,950 for a job that in many cases ask for a Master's Degree?

 

https://online.merrimack.edu/high-school-teacher-in-massachusetts/

 

 

Teachers are underpaid because they are underappreciated and easiest budget to cut.  Work more, get paid more. Sure.

 

I think you're hung up on the underpaid part. I agree with that. Being denied cost of living increases is not good.

 

I don't think that teachers going home and grading papers is anything extraordinary. Lots of people who make $50k+ go home and do work "off the clock". People who make over $100k regularly work 50-60+ hour work weeks, plus they go home and do work at home as well. Most workers who make six figures work 5+ days a week, work at least 10 hour days if not more, often work on the weekends, don't get off any of the minor holidays (sorry Columbus and MLK and Presidents). Also, they only have a 401k to fall back on most of the time. They aren't guaranteed to put in 30 years and get 50% of their salary when they retire.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Just wondering what percentage of public school teachers have two year degrees.  I know that a lot of RNs don't.  (In theory, around 9 months from now, I'll be one of them.)  

 

And "nurse" includes LPNs, who don't have a college degree at all.  

 

Yes, a lot of nurses have four year (or more) degrees.  I assume the percentage is growing.  But I would suspect that it's still less than half.  

 

Whereas a quick check says that 58% of public school teachers hold graduate degrees.  

 

Trying to come up with some sort of apples/apples comparison. The article brought up nurses so that's what I started comparing against. That's all.

(although I did expect the ratio of nurses to 4 year degrees to be greater)

Edited by Springfield
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Got notice this am that a student in our daughters pod tested positive for COVID. Entire fifth grade has been sent home with further details coming. 
 

We made it one  month before a positive test. Going to be a long year. 

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15 hours ago, GoSkinsGo said:

Got notice this am that a student in our daughters pod tested positive for COVID. Entire fifth grade has been sent home with further details coming. 
 

We made it one  month before a positive test. Going to be a long year. 

Been telling myself this since April: we need a concrete plan if one of us parents gets COVID, or if both of us get COVID (the type that lays us out), or if one of our kids gets COVID. That's rough, because it's not like family can/will take your kids. Even a quarantine, you have to assume that adult/child is infected.

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So now that the pressure (and data to some extent) has pushed the school board to reopen schools soon, groups against it have started to form. 
 

the argument that made me chuckle was the “teachers don’t have time to prepare for the change”. The time to prepare is over a month, and the prep work is picking up where we left off after the whole summer of planning for this. And the people supposedly concerned about planning are the ones that ripped the rug out from everyone 2 weeks before the first day of class after months of planning a different approach (that they’re now going back to)

 

so, picking up on months of planning with a month to go = too little time

 

but ripping the rug out 2 weeks before, and changing everything isnt. 
 

strictly analyzing their arguments, they are at best inconsistent. More likely just hypocrites pushing for their desired agenda without regard to making quality arguments. They don’t actually care about the planning element (cause it makes no sense the way they’ve argued it) just an argument of convenience. 
 

going to be interesting to see if it changes. Again. 

Edited by tshile
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I wish this forum had user locations over on the left with the avatars.  

 

I have no clue what locations you are talking about when you talk about what is happening in your neck of the woods.

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2 minutes ago, purbeast said:

I wish this forum had user locations over on the left with the avatars.  

 

I have no clue what locations you are talking about when you talk about what is happening in your neck of the woods.

Yes. But I also don't want Mary stalking me. Cooking my pet rabbit.

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On 9/26/2020 at 8:21 AM, Xameil said:

Lol not around here....I know some teachers around here are paid close to 100k for only 9 months of work....and maybe 8 hours a day...


 

no way is it 8 hours a day. You have to teach 8 hours a day. But then, you need to grade papers, deal with parents and problem students, and plan a curriculum.

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17 minutes ago, purbeast said:

I wish this forum had user locations over on the left with the avatars.  

 

I have no clue what locations you are talking about when you talk about what is happening in your neck of the woods.

I doesn’t really matter. And generally I assume the same is going on throughout Virginia right now. School board are releasing info on a plan to somehow get the kids back in class, and some people are still fighting it (teachers and parents) 

 

im sure details change from place to another but the general situation is about the same. 
 

the only difference between me and everyone else is that we were less on top of things and so we have the added issue of not having as much time to prepare. 

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Just now, tshile said:

I doesn’t really matter. And generally I assume the same is going on throughout Virginia right now. School board are releasing info on a plan to somehow get the kids back in class, and some people are still fighting it (teachers and parents) 

 

im sure details change from place to another but the general situation is about the same. 
 

the only difference between me and everyone else is that we were less on top of things and so we have the added issue of not having as much time to prepare. 

It matters is because some people in here live in Texas and Florida and things there are quite different than they are here in Montgomery County, MD.  

 

It would be nice to know when they talk about things happening and knowing how close to home they are.

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2 hours ago, purbeast said:

I wish this forum had user locations over on the left with the avatars.  

 

I have no clue what locations you are talking about when you talk about what is happening in your neck of the woods.

 

All it takes is one click on the poster's user profile and it will show their location.  You in Rockville, tshile in Warrenton, me in Falls Church, etc.

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5 minutes ago, China said:

 

All it takes is one click on the poster's user profile and it will show their location.  You in Rockville, tshile in Warrenton, me in Falls Church, etc.

Thanks I was not aware of that.  I just did the mouse over and the popup didn't have it so I assumed it wasn't anywhere.

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11 hours ago, Elessar78 said:

Been telling myself this since April: we need a concrete plan if one of us parents gets COVID, or if both of us get COVID (the type that lays us out), or if one of our kids gets COVID. That's rough, because it's not like family can/will take your kids. Even a quarantine, you have to assume that adult/child is infected.


The logistics are really daunting. I’m lucky enough that I can work from and likely able to manage if someone in our immediate family got sick. if both my wife and I got sick I’m not sure what would happen. 
 

The pod separation that our school is doing worked and they also have a contract with a company that handles contact tracing. They identified the other positive test and tracked the contact. 

 

2 hours ago, purbeast said:

I wish this forum had user locations over on the left with the avatars.  

 

I have no clue what locations you are talking about when you talk about what is happening in your neck of the woods.


I’m in Annapolis and our kids go to a private school that is doing a hybrid virtual / in person. 

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2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:


 

no way is it 8 hours a day. You have to teach 8 hours a day. But then, you need to grade papers, deal with parents and problem students, and plan a curriculum.

Almost my entire family are teachers of all levels except college. I am well aware of what "extra" they do....trust me...most people I know who don't teach and get paid less...do more work for more months. 

I'm kinda tired of hearing that argument to be honest...I can counter each one of your points with others professions having to deal with the same thing for much lower salary, especially when you consider the 3 month break.

 

Now...I'm not saying all teachers are overpaid..in fact some of the salaries down south are absurdly low. Some districts around me are right in line...

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5 hours ago, purbeast said:

Unless you live in a town of population 1, I think you are okay.

Basically. I'm in a rural county with not a lot of brown people that associate with the Washington Football Team.

 

Using the question "I'm lookin' for a fella that didn't grow up around here, has dark skin, doesn't like the local NFL team." I bet you find me in 4 hours.

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On 9/26/2020 at 9:00 AM, Renegade7 said:

Work more, get paid more. Sure.

Usually your pay is a reflection of how easily replaceable you are. Not how hard you work or how hard your work is to do. 
 

or time. I mean sure hourly employees are paid by the time they put in. Salary employees salary is mostly a function of how easy they are to replace, and how much they work is a function of what it’s required to keep your job. 
 

the only problem I have with the teachers are underpaid argument is that these days you can’t really find a single teacher that didn’t understand that when they made their career choice. I also think elements of it are overblown like he was arguing.

 

also as a general comment teachers salaries are public information. Or at least the scale is and it’s not hard to figure out where one falls. 

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