So, how do you reopen schools? (Preschool to High School & even College)

[tshile]

9 minutes ago, techboy said:

This is one time playing it tough probably isn't going to work.

A lot of kids have already left the system. 
 

Private school is booming. 
 

if ever there was a great time to push for vouchers and shifting a lot of people to private schools, this is it. 
 

I don’t think we have a firm grasp on what will be the total fall out from this. Teachers refusal to work together in this may wind up permanently alerting what public school is in this country. 
 

lots of people are finding out private school isn’t as unaffordable as they thought, and that there’s lots of nice things about it. 

[techboy]

@tshileCollective bargaining is what makes a union a union. That's hardly a minor point, but then, as I noted, I'm sensitive to it.

Edited September 24, 2020 by techboy

[TD_washingtonredskins]

@techboy a couple points...

 

1) I hope nothing I said came across as BLAMING individual teachers. I realize that less than 6 months ago they were basically asked to trash the way they had always taught their curriculum and also probably don't like distance learning. 

 

2) Where are you seeing that 33% of teachers would leave if they were asked to start going back on-site? If that's true, then I'd say THIS is the time to do it. We already are giving our children a mulligan year that is nothing like they've ever had before. Go ahead and tear off the band-aid, see what we have, and adjust as needed. 

[LadySkinsFan]

Not to say too much but my granddaughter could possibly fall under ADA guidelines. Her school district has the following schedules:  1st three weeks were totally online, the rest of the nine weeks period, and every nine week period thereafter it's parents choice whether a kid has online or in person schooling. My daughter says no in person schooling now and probably not for the rest of the year. My daughter works in a food co-op (Wheatsville two stores) so she's not taking any chances. She said that the precautions the co-op took early on has resulted in no Covid outbreaks among store personnel. I have self-isolated for months, haven't seen my granddaughter since about March. 

 

It's an unhappy situation for everyone. Kids want to be in school, no one wants to get sick, people want to be employed. The few times I've driven around I've seen lots of stores and businesses closed. It's a damn shame that we have a narcissist, who actually knows the deadliness of Covid to tell people it's all a hoax so he can win an election. He needs to be prosecuted and jailed. 

[techboy]

@TD_washingtonredskinsi don't know where you got that 33% number, but it wasn't from me. My comments are based on an unscientific assessment of conversations going on around me and my read on why FCPS switched from the choice of hybrid to 100% online.

 

I also know what happens to schools during a sub shortage during a NORMAL time.

 

The free market solution would be to offer hazardous duty pay sufficient to ensure people make different personal decisions, but that doesn't seem realistic either.

[tshile]

I think I was the one to drop the 1/3 number and I pulled it out of my ass  

[Renegade7]

Some of these colleges backtracking on sports and these young adults they ride to death will actually die this time.  Because of $

[China]

51 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Some of these colleges backtracking on sports and these young adults they ride to death will actually die this time.  Because of $

 

The major college sports are showing what they've always been about, money.  They've never really cared about the players, except to take care of them well enough that they make the universities gobs of cash.

[dfitzo53]

3 hours ago, tshile said:

I think I was the one to drop the 1/3 number and I pulled it out of my ass  

For what it's worth, based on internal polling in my school district, the number was large enough to shock me. I feel comfortable sharing this since the poll was part of a town hall posted publicly to YouTube, but I won't go into specifics right now.

 

Now on the other hand, that was what teachers said they would do in a poll (quit if forced to turn to school) but how many would actually follow through is anyone's guess.

 

As a parent and a teacher I see both sides of this issue first hand. It's hard on everyone involved. My daughter is self-motivated enough to do all of her third grade school work. My kindergarten son, while not as interested in every assignment, is giving a solid effort for a five-year-old. I'm lucky. Lots of families are struggling just to make ends meet, let alone keep a stable work environment in the house and make sure their kids truly pay attention.

 

I'm not personally worried about my own health in returning to school, but I do worry about the community. I have a hard time believing we wouldn't just end up shut down all over again. There have been multiple large gatherings on my block with little to no distancing or mask wearing. I asked my students what they did over the weekend, and one of them went to a birthday party. I said, "Oh, was it like a small family thing?" and they said no it was a big party. In my zip code, opening schools seems like it's just taking the fast track to becoming a hot spot.

 

I say all that to say, I have no answers that will please everyone. I just don't want this to sour public opinion of teachers. Everybody at my school is busting our asses. Hand delivering supplies and hot spots to families when needed, writing assignments that can be done multiple different ways so everyone can engage, working unusual hours to accommodate families, holding regular forums with parents to get feedback, etc.

[tshile]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Some of these colleges backtracking on sports and these young adults they ride to death will actually die this time.  Because of $

I have a problem with this. 
 

as in it’s been on my mind back to may when I started thinking about the impact on fall. 
 

I can’t help but wonder if we’ll be watching a class action lawsuit. Finding a balance between over exaggerating and being reckless with the pandemic is hard. There are cases of things going well. But there’s always the possibility. And there’s some interesting stuff out there about the long term effects of covid vs the mentality of “young people aren’t being hurt by this”

 

as much as I struggle with decisions over kindergarten, I can’t imagine being the parent of a college athlete trying to weigh how to advise, much less how much to advise given they’re technically adults. 
 

god I hope this isn’t a class action lawsuits against the college system for kids being put in harms way 10 years from now. Oh how awful that would be. 
 

its easy to imagine that. It’s also easy to write it off as an over reaction. Can’t think of a time where decision making has been so hard. 

[NoCalMike]

My city hit the red this week in new covid cases, supposedly if we go another week in the red, then it signals that schools could re-open partially sometime in October.  No idea how it would work as details have not been shared.  No way will they have full classrooms so I would guess half the class goes Mon/Wed other half Tue/Thu and either alternate Fridays or Friday will always be a distance learning day.  

 

I have a 3rd grader, she is pretty smart and picks up on most stuff quick.  I also have a Kindergartener and she is not enjoying the distance learning too much but she is one of those kids that always "wants to be a good girl" so she is making it work.  

 

I obviously have mixed feelings, I know they both want to be in school, especially my older one because this is her 4th year at the school, she has a group of established friends and misses them, sees them on the zoom call but can't really hang out with them at all.  They both like school but are justifiably less enthusiastic about the distance learning stuff.  

 

I had an idea that why not just keep the older kids from high schools at home for this school year and let the elementary schools use their campuses since they have way more classrooms and space to abide by social distancing and stuff.   

[Elessar78]

16 hours ago, tshile said:

A lot of kids have already left the system. 
 

Private school is booming. 
 

if ever there was a great time to push for vouchers and shifting a lot of people to private schools, this is it. 
 

I don’t think we have a firm grasp on what will be the total fall out from this. Teachers refusal to work together in this may wind up permanently alerting what public school is in this country. 
 

lots of people are finding out private school isn’t as unaffordable as they thought, and that there’s lots of nice things about it. 

If you're gonna have a strong America, you NEED a strong public school system.

This is another way the conservative mindset has co-opted what is for the good of the majority and the greater good overall. This poisonous mindset that paying taxes is bad and anything the government provides is substandard. People keep cutting taxes, cutting school budgets and then point to "look, the schools suck". Well you don't fund them. When I was growing up Fairfax and MoCo were some of the best public school systems in the country (probably still are) and they were also very well funded. Although I believe there have been multi-year pay freezes in Fairfax.

9 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I had an idea that why not just keep the older kids from high schools at home for this school year and let the elementary schools use their campuses since they have way more classrooms and space to abide by social distancing and stuff.   

It's a brilliant proposal. in times like these we need to be doing more out of the box thinking. Adjust the school year to go through the summer or winter and have as much of it outdoors—in most northern states summers are temperate. In southern states, winters are tolerable.

[Busch1724]

I've mentioned it earlier in the thread that I am a principal. My wife is a teacher. I browse this forum while I eat my lunch. It's interesting to me to read this thread as there are many great points. In central PA, schools are all over the place as far as who is fully in-person, hybrid, or fully online. My wife's school is one that is fully in-person. It's a small rural school. The staff there all have different feelings about Covid. Some are anti-maskers, some are going with the flow, and some are high anxiety about Covid. Her school is experiencing an inequality in the enforcement of the mask policy. Teachers aren't backed up by the principal. The union reports it to the superintendent, nothing happens. The school board at the school is loaded with Trumpsters. The superintendent's hands are tied. If he disciplines the principal, he whines to the board. So the teachers and students are all at risk. There have been several positive cases in the school since they've opened, multiple while the students were in the building with symptoms. They'd get sent home, then find they're positive. The parents don't keep them at home until the school nurse sends them home. However, they haven't reached that threshold where they must close. 

 

At my school we're doing a hybrid. We have about 4 times as many students and staff at my school compared to my wife. We have teachers all over the place in their feelings about Covid also. We set the expectation early on as a staff, with the union's blessing, that the mask policy must be enforced. If a teacher isn't wearing mask while adults or children are in the room, there's a letter goes in their file for insubordination. If students don't wear approved masks properly, they go home. We've had two positive cases, both students developed the symptoms on their online days, quarantined, and got tested while not in the building. They were never in the building with symptoms. On the teacher end, no letters have been given. No students have been sent home because they wouldn't wear an approved mask. Sure teachers and principals periodically do remind the students when the see a mask below their nose and not fully up. Everyone has done great. They don't argue with us either. 

 

We've been lucky at my school, but you also make your own luck. I mention all that because expectations were set and enforced. Unfortunately, in PA with 500 districts all with their own school boards, all these things get handled differently. I'm sure Maryland and Virginia are dealing with similar issues, even though they are county-wide school systems. The point is, leadership makes the difference. Unfortunately, Trump hasn't provided that. Then we are all left with what my wife's school deals with. At my school, the teachers have mostly felt safe and comfortable. At my wife's, not so much. I know you all know teachers want students back. Online learning is not the best system for the most, if not all, students. There was a quote from someone a couple months ago to the effect of, "I hope we find out we overreacted to protect the kids rather than not do enough." I agree with it, but I also struggle with it because the learning lost will take a generation to overcome. However, their safety is most important. We're all struggling with that balance and the Idiot in Chief makes it so damn difficult. 

[Xameil]

1 hour ago, Elessar78 said:

Adjust the school year to go through the summer or winter and have as much of it outdoors—in most northern states summers are temperate. In southern states, winters are tolerable.

Lol we had teachers around me complaining about a plan to get rid of snow days and make snow days work from home days...I can just imagine the pushback to giving up their summer...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 hours ago, Xameil said:

Lol we had teachers around me complaining about a plan to get rid of snow days and make snow days work from home days...I can just imagine the pushback to giving up their summer...

 

That does kind of suck...if the past few months showed us anything it's that you really don't NEED to have snow days. 

[Elessar78]

4 hours ago, Xameil said:

Lol we had teachers around me complaining about a plan to get rid of snow days and make snow days work from home days...I can just imagine the pushback to giving up their summer...

They'd prob get a commensurate chunk of time off when we can't do indoors. In my world.

[gbear]

We should be aware what has happened in Israel. They had very low numbers so they reopened. There positivity rate shot through the roof. They are back to the point where people arent even allowed out of their houses.

 

We should be aware of the high risks we taking opening up and make fall back plans as we move forward. If we dont have a plan/fixed measurable point where we take a step back, then we are managing this terribly. 

 

All I see is a huge push to reopen no matter what. I get it. I want my house and sanity back. I want my blind daughter to get the in person help she needs including her one on one aid and training on how to use a cane.

 

I just dont want my Black teenage daughter with a heart condition to catch it and die because hwr highschool reopens all in person teaching.

[techboy]

6 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That does kind of suck...if the past few months showed us anything it's that you really don't NEED to have snow days. 

 

[Renegade7]

9 hours ago, Xameil said:

Lol we had teachers around me complaining about a plan to get rid of snow days and make snow days work from home days...I can just imagine the pushback to giving up their summer...

 

It's time, we're no longer an agrarian culture in the US.  Does Europe schools have a 3 month summer vacation?  Don't some states not even do that anymore? 

[Xameil]

41 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

It's time, we're no longer an agrarian culture in the US.  Does Europe schools have a 3 month summer vacation?  Don't some states not even do that anymore? 

Tell that to them....cause when I do ( most of my close relatives are teachers) I get the side eye....

[Renegade7]

18 minutes ago, Xameil said:

Tell that to them....cause when I do ( most of my close relatives are teachers) I get the side eye....

 

Our education system needs the kinda help that as a son of a former teacher, if my mom got it, she'd give up 3 months off. 

 

I dont believe parents listen to teachers enough, and administrators typically treat them like customer always right.

 

Stopping tangent before going OT...few things better then being told how to teach by folks that aren't teachers...

[China]

After months of planning and billions in spending, will colleges’ virus prevention efforts get trashed by a few student parties?

 

University officials planned for months for the resumption of fall classes amid the pandemic, with experts advising them on the rapidly evolving understanding of the novel coronavirus. They spent tens of billions of dollars creating massive testing programs, clearing out dorm space for quarantines, sticking reminder dots six feet apart on sidewalks, overhauling ventilation systems and crafting public health campaigns centered around feisty mask-wearing mascots.

 

But as cases of the coronavirus have popped up on campuses, forcing some schools to empty their dorms or switch to virtual classes, one factor cannot be ignored: Students like to party. And good luck reining that in.

 

College presidents, student leaders and local officials are trying a variety of approaches. Some — like the University of Maryland’s president — are dropping by popular bars near campus to hand out masks to students outside and remind them to stay safe. Others are moving to shut down socializing altogether, or berating fraternities who host parties. Others have gone so far as to kick students out for violating rules. All of this has created new tension over who really is to blame.

 

Some of the penalties and scoldings have infuriated students, who argue that administrators should be held accountable if the virus spreads on a campus that they have chosen to reopen in the middle of a pandemic.

 

“I don’t think they’ve ever truly owned up to the fact that it was a bad idea from the start,” said Zack Jenio, a junior at North Carolina State University, which announced less than two weeks into the semester that it was pivoting to online classes.

 

When West Virginia University temporarily shifted classes online this month, President E. Gordon Gee blamed some students’ “selfish decisions” for a spike in cases. “If the safety protocols had been followed and large gatherings had not been held by students with reckless disregard of their fellow students and community members,” Gee wrote in a recent note to campus, “we may not be in this situation.”

 

This week, WVU announced it would resume some in-person instruction Monday, and praised students who had followed safety guidelines. The school also said about 120 students face coronavirus-related sanctions. Of those, 24 students were suspended and one was expelled and, according to student code, would not receive a refund of tuition and fees.

 

At many schools, the number of coronavirus cases has stayed low thus far even with students living on campus. But with the knowledge that cases can spike quickly — and with the health of the surrounding communities as well as students, faculty and staff at stake — the question of how best to inspire or enforce compliance with public health guidelines has deadly urgency.

Colgate University President Brian Casey said the concern is that students will let down their guard and think having a party won’t have an effect.

 

“What we’re trying to say to them is — it will,” Casey said. “We’ve seen other college campuses where one or two large parties radically spikes up infections.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Xameil]

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Our education system needs the kinda help that as a son of a former teacher, if my mom got it, she'd give up 3 months off. 

 

I dont believe parents listen to teachers enough, and administrators typically treat them like customer always right.

 

Stopping tangent before going OT...few things better then being told how to teach by folks that aren't teachers...

Lol I don't tell them how to teach...I just suggest that maybe..just maybe the school year is too short and that maybe now snow days are unnecessary...

They don't like that...

[Springfield]

1 hour ago, Xameil said:

Lol I don't tell them how to teach...I just suggest that maybe..just maybe the school year is too short and that maybe now snow days are unnecessary...

They don't like that...

I don’t know how teaching pay scales work but is it possible that they are vastly underpaid compared to their college equivalents because they only work for 8 months out of the year?

 

Maybe their way to increased pay is working a full year.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Xameil said:

Lol I don't tell them how to teach...I just suggest that maybe..just maybe the school year is too short and that maybe now snow days are unnecessary...

They don't like that...

 

Ya, sorry if response came across like I was talking about you specifically, I was talking in general. 

 

Remember one time I left school early and sat in on one of my mom's one on one meetings with a parent, she was teaching special ed at the time (yes, I eventually got in trouble for that).  It was hard to not listen to on the other side of the room, and hard to listen to.  And this was Prince William County where the parent was more likely to come then when she taught in SE DC.

 

Start with paying them more plus more flexibility in how to teach the curriculum, then talk about shrinking summer vacation because of the studies that show how much is rusty by time they get back and makes their jobs harder then it needs to be.  But just going after their days off without changing anything else, ya, I'd say no, too.  I want to say some countries do a month or two, but not three, so doing that might help what some say is about a month lost on certain subjects or kids with certain socioeconomic conditions.

 

Back on topic, I want to see the data on this virtual learning in hopes that it can stick around as an option for some.  And another study on the reality of those unfortunate enough to possibly miss an entire year of school because of COVID.