The 2020 DB thread

[carex]

10 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Aaron Colvin, I hope pans out in his new home. He was a very good CB in college if memory serves. Eric Berry is still out there I think too.

 

this is his old home, we picked him up last year

 

 

On another subject, isn't Rivera known for being pretty cheap about DBs

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

40 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Fuller should be our starting outside CB until he proves he can't handle that role.  Think we'd be solid at CB with Fuller at CB1, Moreau at CB2 and Moreland in the slot.

 

Fuller isn't a rookie, he's proven he can't handle outside corner over the past 4 years on two different teams.  He has shown he's a high quality Nickel and has flashed quality play at FS.

 

I would be surprised if the coaching staff expects Fuller to play as an outside guy.  But maybe that's why the only high profile FA we went after was Amari Cooper and not any of the CB's available like Byron Jones.

13 minutes ago, carex said:

 

On another subject, isn't Rivera known for being pretty cheap about DBs

 

I don't think we know.  He didn't have personnel control in Carolina.  One reason he took this job was more power.

 

I think the decision to rescind Josh Norman's franchise tag was the Carolina GM's only, but could be mistaken.

[HTTRDynasty]

7 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

he's proven he can't handle outside corner over the past 4 years on two different teams. 

 

When did he prove that?  I don't recall him ever getting burned at outside CB on either team.  In fact, he was rated as the #1 outside CB (for CBs with over 100 coverage snaps outside) by PFFs grading in the one year he did see significant snaps outside (2018).

 

Fuller clearly prefers playing outside CB.  I hope the coaches give him the opportunity and don't just write him off as a Nickel CB.

 

 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

3 hours ago, Burgold said:

Yep, most of our hopes are pinned on the idea that last year's defensive staff was so incompetent and miscommunication was so rampant that we will see a huge turnaround just because of a the new brain trust.

 

Its not an unreasonable assumption...

 

I think, at least in part, Rivera wants to see the difference: who really sucks and who can be coached 

[profusion]

The DBs will look a lot better if they're playing with a front seven that can actually generate pressure.

[carex]

3 hours ago, Burgold said:

Yep, most of our hopes are pinned on the idea that last year's defensive staff was so incompetent and miscommunication was so rampant that we will see a huge turnaround just because of a the new brain trust.

 

I mean they're not world beaters but we do have four new linebackers(counting Foster), two new corners and two new safeties

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Its not an unreasonable assumption...

 

I think, at least in part, Rivera wants to see the difference: who really sucks and who can be coached 

I think this is true, too.

 

I also think that he thinks his philosophy doesn't require great corners. It's more about teamwork and pressure.

[Anselmheifer]

 

 

I was going to post about this in the FA thread, but this tweet makes me fantasize about signing Jalen Ramsey, or trading for him at some point. It doesn't fit the Rivera mold of not spending on the secondary and investing in the front instead, but Ramsey would be a nightmare for opposing teams behind our DL. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

32 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I was going to post about this in the FA thread, but this tweet makes me fantasize about signing Jalen Ramsey, or trading for him at some point. It doesn't fit the Rivera mold of not spending on the secondary and investing in the front instead, but Ramsey would be a nightmare for opposing teams behind our DL. 

 

That would be great, but doesn't Ramsey have 1 more year on his contract ?

I don't think he's free. In fact they're probably working on an extension.

[Riggo#44]

13 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I think the decision to rescind Josh Norman's franchise tag was the Carolina GM's only, but could be mistaken.

 

That would be Dave Gettleman, current Giants GM, who did the same with Landon Collins.

9 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I was going to post about this in the FA thread, but this tweet makes me fantasize about signing Jalen Ramsey, or trading for him at some point. It doesn't fit the Rivera mold of not spending on the secondary and investing in the front instead, but Ramsey would be a nightmare for opposing teams behind our DL. 

 

Signing Ramsey would be fantastic, but sometimes a tweet is just a tweet. Otherwise Stefon Diggs, Damarious Randall, among others, would be Redskins...

[Anselmheifer]

10 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

That would be great, but doesn't Ramsey have 1 more year on his contract ?

I don't think he's free. In fact they're probably working on an extension.

He’s a free agent after 2020. The Rams traded two first for him though. He’s going to get franchised if he doesn’t get resigned. Or it would take a major dispute/holdout threat like Trent Williams and evening then I wouldn’t want to give up our 2021 1st. Ramsey is I’m sure part of the reasons the Ram have cleared so much cap space moving forward. They need to resign him.

 

Our only real hope of signing him is that they franchise him this year and trade him the following year. Too much to expect. It’s a fantasy. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

20 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

When did he prove that?  I don't recall him ever getting burned at outside CB on either team.  In fact, he was rated as the #1 outside CB (for CBs with over 100 coverage snaps outside) by PFFs grading in the one year he did see significant snaps outside (2018).

 

Fuller clearly prefers playing outside CB.  I hope the coaches give him the opportunity and don't just write him off as a Nickel CB.

 

 

News to me that he prefers playing outside, but if that's what he's aiming for, then we'll find out what the coaches told him.

 

I read he was benched for poor play by Kansas City playing outside in 2019.  They signed Tyrann Mathieu to fill the Nickel/Safety role, so Fuller was playing outside, he was abysmal, and got benched.  Then as the season wore on, they found playing time for him at Nickel/Safety, and then when their starting FS tore his ACL, they moved him to Safety for the playoffs.

 

It's been awhile since I read that, so I could be remembering wrong, but I don't believe so.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

so Fuller was playing outside, he was abysmal, and got benched. 

 

I believe you're remembering it wrong, or the source was wrong to begin with.  313 of Fuller's 498 snaps last year were in the slot, according to PFF.

 

Basically what happened is he was playing slot CB to begin the year in 2019, was doing poorly, then got injured.  Mathieu then moved from FS to nickel CB, and played extremely well there (Fenton also proved to be a strong slot CB for them when Fuller was out), so they relegated Fuller to a reserve role before trying him out at FS.

 

Here's an excerpt about it from a Chiefs fan site: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2019/12/25/21036506/kendall-fuller-film-review-he-makes-a-great-safety

 

 

Quote

 

So when he returned from injury, he couldn’t return to his previous job as the starting slot corner; the Chiefs had moved on. With Mathieu playing so well in the position, the Chiefs looked for new ways to incorporate Fuller. All year, the team has experimented with dropping Fuller deep from the slot — along with other disguised coverages — but after a few weeks using him as a second slot cornerback, the Chiefs tried him as a traditional safety against the Bears.

 

Fuller did well in his reps as both a safety and a cornerback. But the most impressive part was how comfortable he looked playing as a true centerfielder. Even though it was his first opportunity to play safety full-time, whether playing deep or driving on plays underneath, Fuller was able to make an impact.

 

 

 

 

And this is the response I received from a knowledgable and respected Chiefs fan on another forum in regards to this topic:

 

Quote

 

My question for you guys:  why didn't KC ever try him full-time at outside CB?  He seemed to do very well there in a relatively small sample size in 2018.  But he played mostly slot in 2018 (70%), then slot and safety in 2019.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-the-chiefs-needs-slot-cornerback-kendall-fuller-back-to-his-best-in-2019

 

 

 

Quote

 

Mix of reasons, really. Some of it will be coaching preference, some of it will be the skills and profiles of the guys around him. Under both Sutton and Spags, our defense has played sides at the CB position rather than follow. So Breeland was always the LCB, Ward was always the RCB, Fuller and later Fenton were always in the slot. We move our safeties a ton, with Mathieu, Thornhill, and Sorensen each doing some of everything, but our CBs play whoever lines up across from their spot. And our other CBs, athletically, aren't really the best fits for the slot. Breeland and Ward are both best as traditional boundary corners. It was a little different in 2018 when we had Scandrick and Nelson who both had slot experience as well, and you'd put Fuller outside just to get Scandrick off the field. But Ward is a horrible fit for the slot and Breeland is definitely less comfortable there. So to get your best group of DBs out there, you would need Fuller in the slot. The only way you get him playing outside is if you have him start as a boundary corner and move inside in nickel formations, but like I said the staff seems to prefer not moving the CBs around, and we spent most of the time in nickel (at least) anyway. So our 5 best DBs entering the year were Breeland, Ward, Fuller, Mathieu, and Thornhill. Easiest way to get all 5 on the field is with Fuller in the slot. Given our versatility at safety, and lack of versatility at CB elsewhere, it was honestly easier for him to see snaps at S without a drop off by moving Mathieu into the slot, than have him seeing snaps outside without a drop off. Fenton eventually proved to be a good slot corner, but that was in relief of an injured Fuller, or a moved to S Fuller, so by then it wasn't relevant.

 

tl;dr Fuller at slot + Ward/Breeland outside > Fuller outside with one of Ward/Breeland in the slot.

 

 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Ok, do we know if Jack Del Rio likes to have corners stay in similar positions throughout the game, so no moving from Outside/Slot/Outside again to match formations?

[Burgold]

I like the idea of follow corner vs. playing a side. I would think it would help in homework too as the corner could really hone in on the tendencies of the player he's going up against when it's man and not zone.

 

For some reason, I think Del Rio is a zone guy, but I also think I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Malapropismic Depository]

11 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

He’s a free agent after 2020. The Rams traded two first for him though. He’s going to get franchised if he doesn’t get resigned. Or it would take a major dispute/holdout threat like Trent Williams and evening then I wouldn’t want to give up our 2021 1st. Ramsey is I’m sure part of the reasons the Ram have cleared so much cap space moving forward. They need to resign him.

 

Our only real hope of signing him is that they franchise him this year and trade him the following year. Too much to expect. It’s a fantasy. 

 

22 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I was going to post about this in the FA thread, but this tweet makes me fantasize about signing Jalen Ramsey, or trading for him at some point. It doesn't fit the Rivera mold of not spending on the secondary and investing in the front instead, but Ramsey would be a nightmare for opposing teams behind our DL. 

 

Are you Jordan ?

 

 

[max21]

I have zero confidence in Moreland, he is just too small. I seem to always forget we resigned Fuller 

[Malapropismic Depository]

For just a moment, can we look at our future DB, from the sibling of Sean Taylor ?

Look at his face at the end...the facial resemblance to Sean, is astounding.

 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Twitter rumors about Ramsey coming to Washington, are getting out of hand.

Players go from Washington to L.A., not the other way around.

[TheShredder]

9 hours ago, max21 said:

I have zero confidence in Moreland, he is just too small. I seem to always forget we resigned Fuller 

Thank you Baby Jesus you're not making decisions. Moreland is avg size and speed.  Here's some video from last month with him working out with othe NFL DBs.  His intangibles are his instinct and vision. Collin's likes his upside because he knows he'll be playing with his best assets that he didn't have as a rookie.  Coaching really matters too.  Not the least, a total defensive scheme that utilizes strengths and makes them stronger.  Forcing QBs to rush throws will play into the skills of Moreland and I wouldn't be surprised if he takes his game to another level.  He really must this year or he might never be a full time NFL CB.  

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

^

Who's the UVA guy in the vid ?

Jake Dewease ?

[max21]

10 hours ago, TheShredder said:

Thank you Baby Jesus you're not making decisions. Moreland is avg size and speed.  Here's some video from last month with him working out with othe NFL DBs.  His intangibles are his instinct and vision. Collin's likes his upside because he knows he'll be playing with his best assets that he didn't have as a rookie.  Coaching really matters too.  Not the least, a total defensive scheme that utilizes strengths and makes them stronger.  Forcing QBs to rush throws will play into the skills of Moreland and I wouldn't be surprised if he takes his game to another level.  He really must this year or he might never be a full time NFL CB. 

Don’t get me wrong here, I like Moreland. I saw him play at JMU. He’s just small, He can have the best instincts ever for a DB but if he lines up against Cooper or Julio Jones he’s going to get cooked. 

[TheShredder]

10 hours ago, max21 said:

Don’t get me wrong here, I like Moreland. I saw him play at JMU. He’s just small, He can have the best instincts ever for a DB but if he lines up against Cooper or Julio Jones he’s going to get cooked. 

Ok, wait a minute.  BS. 

 

Jimmy is 5'11 and there are 10 CBs on the roster.  5 of them are 5'11 or shorter.  4 of them are 1" taller at 6 foot. Only 1 is taller than 6 foot, Simeon Thomas who is 6'3.  So, by that metric you're saying either Simeon Thomas is a lock to start because he's bigger?  Avg weight for CB is 185-195.  Jimmy put on a couple pounds and will play in that 185-195 range. Maybe you have a misconception of what an NFL CB actually is.  You don't have to be over 6 foot and plus 200 Lbs. to be a top cover corner in the  NFL. 

If you're saying you don't like him because hes small, well compared to what? I'm 5'10 195 and I can kick the **** out of most everyone in any room i walk into and im 50 yrs old (but I also live in Bangkok, so there's that LOL!)

I know what you're saying, but he's avg size bro. 

 

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, TheShredder said:

 

If you're saying you don't like him because hes small, well compared to what? I'm 5'10 195 and I can kick the **** out of most everyone in any room i walk into and im 50 yrs old (but I also live in Bangkok, so there's that LOL!)

Brilliant  

[max21]

6 hours ago, TheShredder said:

Ok, wait a minute.  BS. 

 

Jimmy is 5'11 and there are 10 CBs on the roster.  5 of them are 5'11 or shorter.  4 of them are 1" taller at 6 foot. Only 1 is taller than 6 foot, Simeon Thomas who is 6'3.  So, by that metric you're saying either Simeon Thomas is a lock to start because he's bigger?  Avg weight for CB is 185-195.  Jimmy put on a couple pounds and will play in that 185-195 range. Maybe you have a misconception of what an NFL CB actually is.  You don't have to be over 6 foot and plus 200 Lbs. to be a top cover corner in the  NFL. 

If you're saying you don't like him because hes small, well compared to what? I'm 5'10 195 and I can kick the **** out of most everyone in any room i walk into and im 50 yrs old (but I also live in Bangkok, so there's that LOL!)

I know what you're saying, but he's avg size bro. 

 

His worst trait is his size and he is more of a finesse corner. He’s listed 5’11” but also listed as 5’10” on multiple websites. He’s noticeably the smallest dude on the field and would get smoked by physical possession receivers. Theres going to be receivers he just can’t match up against because of his frame.