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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'd still go Fields. But Wilson is making me look at him different. His off schedule throws and arm angles are what the best QBs can do in the modern NFL. Going to be an interesting stretch.

 

i think the fun bonus of both guys are they are really fun to watch.  This franchise is desperate to win in part to keep fans and if you can add a good QB who also brings some excitment stylistically-- it might be a needed bonus.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 Fields to me is accurate and more in the R. Wilson, K. Murray mode as for mobilty.  Fields even in a bad day for him yesterday had some video game runs. 

 

I couldn't watch Zach yesterday but his style of play is fun, i'd be jazzed to get him. 


I thought Fields’ runs were super impressive yesterday. That is going to translate. He’s going to scramble for a lot of first downs. 
 

Fields is also completing 79.6% of his passes. And he throws the ball downfield. He is super accurate and I love his ball placement. 
 

I don’t love that he’s surrounded by so much talent and rarely faces pressure. I still think there is a chance Zach Wilson overtakes him, or already has. 

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29 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:


I thought Fields’ runs were super impressive yesterday. That is going to translate. He’s going to scramble for a lot of first downs. 
 

Fields is also completing 79.6% of his passes. And he throws the ball downfield. He is super accurate and I love his ball placement. 
 

I don’t love that he’s surrounded by so much talent and rarely faces pressure. I still think there is a chance Zach Wilson overtakes him, or already has. 

 

Zach might.  I didn't think so 2 weeks ago but don't think its crazy now.  My man crush on Fields existed from the jump this season, as I've mentioned hearing Fields off season QB who also coaches Watson and Haskins in a segment desgined to promote Haskins more or less suggest Fields is in another strata really got my attention.  Calling him more or less a Lamar Jackson potential runner but a much better thrower than Jackson and saying he was the most talented QB he's ever coached.  High praise.

 

I was just thinking about this during my morning run.  That is, if Jax ends up with the 2nd pick isn't Zach a given to go ahead of Fields if Jay is involved in their decision making?  Zach seems like a vintage Jay QB.  He's Colt McCoy stylistically but just way better and more talented.   Zach screams to me a Jay Gruden dream.  I see Jay pounding the table for him. 

 

At the beginning of the draft season, Sewell was my top target.  But back then even though I didn't like Haskins as a prospect before the draft and openly rooted that we wouldn't take him on draft night -- I bought into some optimism that he might turn the corner after watching all of this off season hype videos.  Now, I am back to thinking he's likely a bust.  And this draft for QBs is looking special.  i can't recall ever loving 3 QBs at the top half of the draft to this extent ever.  I'd hate to miss out on the party.  So Sewell now to me is yawn.  Not that i don't love him as a player, I still do.  But a LT isn't IMO turning this franchise around. 

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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Zach might.  I didn't think so 2 weeks ago but don't think its crazy now.  My man crush on Fields existed from the jump this season, as I've mentioned hearing Fields off season QB who also coaches Watson and Haskins in a segment desgined to promote Haskins more or less suggest Fields is in another strata really got my attention.  Calling him more or less a Lamar Jackson potential runner but a much better thrower than Jackson and saying he was the most talented QB he's ever coached.  High praise.

 

I was just thinking about this during my morning run.  That is, if Jax ends up with the 2nd pick isn't Zach a given to go ahead of Fields if Jay is involved in their decision making?  Zach seems like a vintage Jay QB.  He's Colt McCoy stylistically but just way better and more talented.   Zach screams to me a Jay Gruden dream.  I see Jay pounding the table for him. 

 

At the beginning of the draft season, Sewell was my top target.  But back then even though I didn't like Haskins as a prospect before the draft and openly rooted that we wouldn't take him on draft night -- I bought into some optimism that he might turn the corner after watching all of this off season hype videos.  Now, I am back to thinking he's likely a bust.  And this draft for QBs is looking special.  i can't recall ever loving 3 QBs at the top half of the draft to this extent ever.  I'd hate to miss out on the party.  So Sewell now to me is yawn.  Not that i don't love him as a player, I still do.  But a LT isn't IMO isn't turning this franchise around. 

 

 

Yeah, as much I hate rooting for losses, we need to tank to ensure we get Wilson or Fields.

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Hopefully it doesn't come to it but If we fish later in the draft, right now am sticking with Ridder, Mond, or Newman.  I've liked what I've seen from Ridder but I noticed he has his critics including PFF so I'll dig more.   I noticed Pickett is playing well of late, I'll get to studying him. 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like both, prefer Fields still.  My thing with Zach is I'd love to see him against a real defense.  Somehow I think if Fields was playing North Alabama yesterday he'd go off, too.  Both are really talented QBs.  I like Zach from the standpoint of being a good pocket passer who can improvise and has wheels.  Fields to me is accurate and more in the R. Wilson, K. Murray mode as for mobilty.  Fields even in a bad day for him yesterday had some video game runs. 

 

Ohio State's schedule this season isn't great either. That Indiana team was their one good opponent this year, and they barely escaped.  And it was Indiana.  Indiana didn't even play that well yesterday either.  That team is super aggressive and their calling card is making you pay for turnovers with immediate scores and they couldn't make Ohio State pay for their turnovers yesterday.  It could have been a lot worse for Fields and the Buckeyes if Indiana had played like they did the week before.

 

My issue with the very high Fields projections this year were that they were premature.  I don't agree that he demonstrated he was a top five pick this year in 2019, and I don't think he's shown the amount of growth as a passer this year that I wanted to see before I'd grade him top five for 2021.  I think there was a combo of his recruiting pedigree and his playing for a blue blood with legit NC aspirations that caused people to overestimate his draft stock heading into the season.

 

I also think people believe he is a more traitsy prospect than he really is, because he is such a rare runner at the position.  And I think that has caused an overestimate of his draft stock as well. But DB speed has never really been a big or particularly translatable trait for NFL QBs.  It's certainly nice to have in your tool box, but it's like the tenth most important thing for the position.  And when you look past Fields's feet, his physical traits are average.  Average arm and average size.  He's super clean when he gets time and windows to stay on balanced and on script and schedule, but I don't think he's a particularly big playmaker at the position without that threat of the run.  Without more development of his vision and passing instincts, then I see his ceiling as a touch passer with wheels who is I my going to take what the defense gives you being a lot closer to Daniel Jones than Deshaun Watson.  That's not to **** on Daniel Jones either, BTW.  I was one of the few who kind of liked him as a prospect in 2019, and felt he was a first rounder.  A bigger, faster Alex Smith was my take on him, and that's a top half of the league QB most years.  That's where I think Fields's ceiling is too right now, unless he shows a lot of growth as a passer.  First round worthy, but that would be disappointing to me if I spent a top five pick on a QB.

 

I do agree with you that this team needs to figure out QB ASAP.  This regime will not make it to year three if they don't come up with a viable plan for QB this off-season.  They can not have another year of fumbling the position like this one.

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7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

My issue with the very high Fields projections this year were that they were premature.  I don't agree that he demonstrated he was a top five pick this year in 2019, and I don't think he's shown the amount of growth as a passer this year that I wanted to see before I'd grade him top five for 2021.  I think there was a combo of his recruiting pedigree and his playing for a blue blood with legit NC aspirations that caused people to overestimate his draft stock heading into the season.

 

He was electric in the previous three games, his hype was somewhat predicated on that.  And, I can't just dismiss they hey it was against Penn State but at the same time ignore for example Zach lit up North Alabama but in his case the opponent was irrelevant.  The same point IMO applies to both dudes.  

 

I've watched Fields only in real time thus far and have read quite a bit about him.  And granted when I watched Haskins in real time last year too -- I liked him.  It was volsmet who didn't care for Haskins as a player who openly talked me into on this thread to watching him like I do with other nonQB prospects where I study his attributes and flaws much more closely.  And when I did I quickly got turned off of Haskins.  Maybe the same thing will happen with me via Fields?  Will see.  i haven't taken the time to do it yet.  

 

I tend to heavily favor QBs with mobility especially dudes like Fields who can look like Superman (which he did yesterday, too) when they take off.  Loved Kyler Murray for example in part for that reason.  He was the only Qb in that draft that I swore by.   Players with that kind of mobility tax a defense. 

 

15 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 That's not to **** on Daniel Jones either, BTW.  I was one of the few who kind of liked him as a prospect in 2019, and felt he was a first rounder.  A bigger, faster Alex Smith was my take on him

 

I recall you were higher on Haskins than anyone at the time and looks like you still are.  And you did like Jones the best among the people here.  I recall that well.  The funny thing is I used that same Alex Smith analogy with Daniel Jones back then.   I called him an Alex Smith but with turnovers.  

 

His mobility was easy to see.  Ditto toughness in the pocket.    My issue with him was he played it too safe as a passer, accuracy was sketchy outside of the easier throws in the flat, and he was a turnover machine.  I didn't think he would be a bust and i said so.  But I thought he'd be a 22-27 type QB.  I was wrong.  He's better than that.  Not way better than that but I think he's more in the 13-18 range.  And I actually said i was too hard on Daniel Jones on the Haskins thread multiple times this off season. 

 

 I think if we get too locked in our opinions regardless of changing circumstances/evidence then I think we miss the boat.  I've heard several personnel guys say they can't get too married to initial player evaluations once the script starts playing out for real.   Part of it is the players intangibles.  Shanny, Gibbs among others have talked about this.  That is, you don't really know a player until they are in your building and then opinions can shift and often do.   

 

Bringing this back to Jones.  I recall a NY reporter talk up how he knows they love him in that building because of how hard he works.  He's in the building before 5 am and is constantly working it.

 

We can fall for prospects but we don't know who they are as people.    Bringing this back to Zach and Fields.  I loved what Ive read about Zach as a dude as being committed to being great.  I mostly liked what i've read about Fields but there are some red flags that i'll keep an open mind about it to see if others come down the pike.

 

26 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I do agree with you that this team needs to figure out QB ASAP.  This regime will not make it to year three if they don't come up with a viable plan for QB this off-season.  

 

Yeah totally.  And this draft for QBs at the very least looks intriguing to me. 

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5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

So, I'm kind of glad Fields struggled yesterday. Im with Mr. Inparadise, I want Fields like I want the lottery. I hope yesterday gives the Jags pause (or they just pull a couple games out of their ass...tomato, tomahto)

 

Yeah I can live with Fields as a consulation prize. 😀 My one issue with Zach continuing to kill it is its feeling now that they are going 1,2,3.  That means we might miss out unless we are picking that high. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't know why people want us to go the veteran QB route. Since when has that worked out for us? Our last two QBs worth a damn were both guys we drafted in RG3 and Cousins.

 

Unless a guy like Drew Brees is available in FA which is ridiculously rare, you gotta draft and develop your own guy.

I would say it’s the same argument for the LT position.

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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah totally.  And this draft for QBs at the very least looks intriguing to me. 

 

QB is the most important position on the field, and possibly the most important position in sports (starting pitcher, soccer/hockey goalie are up there), it's also where teams make the biggest mistakes: Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, Mitchell Trubisky, Sam Darnold (although I wonder if Darnold will rebound like Tannehill did away from Adam Gase), Dwayne Haskins, Blake Bortles, Brandon Weeden, EJ Manuel, RGIII, Blaine Gabbert...the list goes on and on. We just need to make sure.

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I can live with Fields as a consulation prize. 😀 My one issue with Zach continuing to kill it is its feeling now that they are going 1,2,3.  That means we might miss out unless we are picking that high. 

 

 

 

Shrivel like a cold winkie for WIlson!

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1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

QB is the most important position on the field, and possibly the most important position in sports (starting pitcher, soccer/hockey goalie are up there), it's also where teams make the biggest mistakes: Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, Mitchell Trubisky, Sam Darnold (although I wonder if Darnold will rebound like Tannehill did away from Adam Gase), Dwayne Haskins, Blake Bortles, Brandon Weeden, EJ Manuel, RGIII, Blaine Gabbert...the list goes on and on. We just need to make sure.


I agree I don’t want to take a QB just to take one. It needs to be the right guy. For me right now I got 3 QBs that I am totally jazzed about and the rest are question marks. I am not saying the question mark QBs fail but for me at least they are much harder to figure out.

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15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bringing this back to Jones.  I recall a NY reporter talk up how he knows they love him in that building because of how hard he works.  He's in the building before 5 am and is constantly working it.

 

This is also one of the things I love about Wilson. There was a PFF article (I think it was them) talking about how WIlson is a FILO--First In-Last Out--type of player. I also recall Lance was too--which makes me like him a bit more. If this is true about Jones, then I like him more as a player. However, he's a Giant, so I hope he gets syphilis.

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9 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

This is also one of the things I love about Wilson. There was a PFF article (I think it was them) talking about how WIlson is a FILO--First In-Last Out--type of player. I also recall Lance was too--which makes me like him a bit more. If this is true about Jones, then I like him more as a player. However, he's a Giant, so I hope he gets syphilis.

 

Yeah I've heard the same about Lance.  I didn't love what I saw from Lance in the games i watched but the dude has real raw talent and I've read that he has very high intangibles.  So if they take Lance i am ok with it depending on where in the draft they do it.

 

As for Jones, yeah I was listening last year in the pregame show to a NY reporter say that Jones was a maniac level worker.  I recall reading that Gettleman had Jones graded high in part because of his intangibles.  The thing is a QB can have flaws but if they are talented and work like crazy -- I do think they can overcome some of it and succeed.  I recall Kirk explaining when he was benched by Jay, he hired an extra in season QB coach and worked like crazy to fix the kinks so to speak.    Rivera said so himself recently, talent can take you only so far in this league, you also have to outwork people.

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I couldn't watch Zach yesterday but his style of play is fun, i'd be jazzed to get him. 

 

Not full highlights but his TD passes.

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401209818

 

Couple of dimes there, one nice touch pass under pressure, and a nice shovel pass under pressure. 

 

His ball placement is pretty spectacular.

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From what I have seen the big knock on taking a QB high in the first round is how many bust.  While this is certainly the case, more so than any other position, it's also clear that this team needs a franchise QB and as the link below shows the top of the draft is where most good QBs are found, the hit rate past the 1st is pathetic.

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

From what I have seen the big knock on taking a QB high in the first round is how many bust.  While this is certainly the case, more so than any other position, it's also clear that this team needs a franchise QB and as the link below shows the top of the draft is where most good QBs are found, the hit rate past the 1st is pathetic.

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

 

 

 

Yep. Personally I think drafting a QB after round 1 is a waste. Most of those guys project to be career backups at best. At least if you get a backup at another position you're getting someone who can contribute.

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14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep. Personally I think drafting a QB after round 1 is a waste. Most of those guys project to be career backups at best. At least if you get a backup at another position you're getting someone who can contribute.

Then just how do you suggest the team address the glaring need at the most important position in sports?  As my link clearly shows finding the next Dak Prescott is a much longer shot than finding the next Herbert at the top of the draft.  

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4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Then just how do you suggest the team address the glaring need at the most important position in sports?  As my link clearly shows finding the next Dak Prescott is a much longer shot than finding the next Herbert at the top of the draft.  

Draft one in the first round. I think you're misunderstanding my post.

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Just got done watching some Herbert from Oregon and it's pretty obvious that guy was going to be a good QB. I really didn't pay him as much mind as I should have but his throwing motion is one of the shortest and most fluid I've seen in a while. He throws a beautiful football. Amazing how the Chargers went from Drew Brees to Phillip Rivers to Justin Herbert. 

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19 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Just got done watching some Herbert from Oregon and it's pretty obvious that guy was going to be a good QB. I really didn't pay him as much mind as I should have but his throwing motion is one of the shortest and most fluid I've seen in a while. He throws a beautiful football. Amazing how the Chargers went from Drew Brees to Phillip Rivers to Justin Herbert. 

 

I watched a ton of Oregon games last season and it wasn't obvious to me.  His film wasn't that great last season, only marginally better than the year before.  His play held that team back when they could have been a playoff team.  But he was a clear first rounder.  The hope with him was that he would put the traits together and become a playmaker and be good Carson Wentz at the next level, but he was pretty halting last year.  Especially for someone playing behind the most dominant line in the country.  His film compared very unfavorably to Burrow's.  But it looks like he's on track to develop in the NFL and the Chargers are getting Carson Wentz.  Or the version of him that was dominant, before he got injured.

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15 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I watched a ton of Oregon games last season and it wasn't obvious to me.  His film wasn't that great last season, only marginally better than the year before.  His play held that team back when they could have been a playoff team.  But he was a clear first rounder.  The hope with him was that he would put the traits together and become a playmaker and be good Carson Wentz at the next level, but he was pretty halting last year.  Especially for someone playing behind the most dominant line in the country.  His film compared very unfavorably to Burrow's.  But it looks like he's on track to develop in the NFL and the Chargers are getting Carson Wentz.  Or the version of him that was dominant, before he got injured.

It looks like he has a lightning quick throwing motion, good trajectory on the ball and was generally pretty accurate. Granted I won't claim I watched him a lot, literally only about 30-40 minutes just a few hours ago, but I liked his arm a lot. I remember it being a big shock when he didn't come out in the 2019 draft, it was generally considered a weak QB class and he had an opportunity to go top 5 (I think a lot of people had him going to the Giants at 6 too). From what I remember, his body of work wasn't perfect but besides his junior season where he threw below 60%, he was generally a pretty accurate QB throughout college I thought. Wentz had his moments, I honestly don't know wtf happened to him, he just fell off the face of the earth. 

 

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