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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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who's the QB in this draft, if any, that has played football and baseball at a high level... that's the guy I want. Quick delivery and knows how to slide. Boom!

 

Other than that, Lawrence is going #1... I'd see what it'll take to get Darnold, assuming Gase gets canned and new coach wants Lawrence. That allows us to take Sewell and have a potential starting QB in Darnold who can definitely play this game, just may need a change of scenery. Gase ruins everybody, i.e. Tannehill

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51 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

who's the QB in this draft, if any, that has played football and baseball at a high level... that's the guy I want. Quick delivery and knows how to slide. Boom!

 

Other than that, Lawrence is going #1... I'd see what it'll take to get Darnold, assuming Gase gets canned and new coach wants Lawrence. That allows us to take Sewell and have a potential starting QB in Darnold who can definitely play this game, just may need a change of scenery. Gase ruins everybody, i.e. Tannehill

 

I honestly wouldn't be against Darnold. If we don't have a top 2 pick we're basically stuck with the potential gamble on Trey Lance. Not sure if I would take that gamble even though I would root him on like crazy if they did. Other than that the qbs in this draft are pretty blah. Trask from Florida maybe in the 2nd/3rd round, definitely would pass on Mond, Purdy, and Costello. 

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I don’t want a quarterback ranked closely to Haskins in the stat department, especially if he’s “trying”. (Speaking on reports that Haskins wasn’t putting in the effort).

 

If those reports are accurate and Darnold is playing just as poorly, I’d rather keep Haskins. 
 

I don’t know if they are, and my guess is there are questions about his work ethic but he IS doing something and putting in effort...

 

But imagine if they are right and we turn around and snag Darnold... who is doing it while, reportedly... trying. 
 

Scary.

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19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t want a quarterback ranked closely to Haskins in the stat department, especially if he’s “trying”. (Speaking on reports that Haskins wasn’t putting in the effort).

 

If those reports are accurate and Darnold is playing just as poorly, I’d rather keep Haskins. 
 

I don’t know if they are, and my guess is there are questions about his work ethic but he IS doing something and putting in effort...

 

But imagine if they are right and we turn around and snag Darnold... who is doing it while, reportedly... trying. 
 

Scary.

 

I like Darnold over Haskins.  I like better his pocket movement and ability to throw on the move.  But I'd rather have neither dude.  I'd go a veteran over trading for Darnold. 

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25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Darnold over Haskins.  I like better his pocket movement and ability to throw on the move.  But I'd rather have neither dude.  I'd go a veteran over trading for Darnold. 


Not me. Darnold is damaged goods. The guy literally sees ghosts because he’s terrified. 
 

He’d need to go to a real good situation to turn it around.

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3 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Not me. Darnold is damaged goods. The guy literally sees ghosts because he’s terrified. 
 

He’d need to go to a real good situation to turn it around.

 

I was pretty harsh on Darnold saying I wouldn't want him.  I think he has more tools than Haskins if I had to choose between them but like I said I'd rather have neither.  I'd bet money that the Jets end up getting more for Darnold than we do for Haskins. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

I honestly wouldn't be against Darnold. If we don't have a top 2 pick we're basically stuck with the potential gamble on Trey Lance. Not sure if I would take that gamble even though I would root him on like crazy if they did. Other than that the qbs in this draft are pretty blah. Trask from Florida maybe in the 2nd/3rd round, definitely would pass on Mond, Purdy, and Costello. 

 

The problem is that if you're throwing a 50/50 dart, Lance makes more sense because you have 4+1 years of a rookie deal, Darnold will only have 1+1 left. I'd rather take Lance at that point unless I could steal Darnold for nothing (like a conditional 3rd and 5th in separate years for Darnold and like a 4th. I'm not giving them much value when 3 of the 5 potential cheap years of his deal are already out the door and I'm actually somewhat of a Darnold believer, but the same issues that have people considering moving away from going QB round 1 are what make it hard to trade for him. It's one thing if Darnold went to one of these teams: 

Dallas

Chicago

Minnesota

Tampa (if Brady retires)

New Orleans (If Brees retires)

Cleveland

Indy

Oakland

Denver

 

 

All of those guys either have weapons, an OL, or both (though Chicago is probably a bit light if memory serves, beyond Robinson), but we're similar to NYJ, just a touch better at WR, and RB, while being worse at TE, and we're probably a push in terms of the OL (though if we miss out on a QB, we'd at least be able to get one elite OT). 

 

Id consider Darnold, but only if we were totally out of range of any of the elite QB Prospects, AND he came super cheap (like my offers), if nothing else, we'd be in a nice situation to potentially sign him on a cheap extension if he only improved marginally, of course we'd want to move on from him if that was the case, anyway. 

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9 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

The problem is that if you're throwing a 50/50 dart, Lance makes more sense because you have 4+1 years of a rookie deal, Darnold will only have 1+1 left. I'd rather take Lance at that point unless I could steal Darnold for nothing (like a conditional 3rd and 5th in separate years for Darnold and like a 4th. I'm not giving them much value when 3 of the 5 potential cheap years of his deal are already out the door and I'm actually somewhat of a Darnold believer, but the same issues that have people considering moving away from going QB round 1 are what make it hard to trade for him. It's one thing if Darnold went to one of these teams: 

Dallas

Chicago

Minnesota

Tampa (if Brady retires)

New Orleans (If Brees retires)

Cleveland

Indy

Oakland

Denver

 

 

All of those guys either have weapons, an OL, or both (though Chicago is probably a bit light if memory serves, beyond Robinson), but we're similar to NYJ, just a touch better at WR, and RB, while being worse at TE, and we're probably a push in terms of the OL (though if we miss out on a QB, we'd at least be able to get one elite OT). 

 

Id consider Darnold, but only if we were totally out of range of any of the elite QB Prospects, AND he came super cheap (like my offers), if nothing else, we'd be in a nice situation to potentially sign him on a cheap extension if he only improved marginally, of course we'd want to move on from him if that was the case, anyway. 


I agree with most of this, I’d only take Darnold if it didn’t take much to get him and we weren’t top 2. The big question is if we are like the 4th/5th pick in the draft and in position to pick a top talent at one of the many positions we need would you still take the risk on lance. If we were like between 12-20 I can see taking the risk but top 5. I don’t know. What would you do with a top 5 pick?

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Just now, GOATFrerotte said:


I agree with most of this, I’d only take Darnold if it didn’t take much to get him and we weren’t top 2. The big question is if we are like the 4th/5th pick in the draft and in position to pick a top talent at one of the many positions we need would you still take the risk on lance. If we were like between 12-20 I can see taking the risk but top 5. I don’t know. What would you do with a top 5 pick?

 

It's a good question, I don't know enough about Lance, I know I'm 100% sold on Lawrence and Fields being elite prospects, not sure about Lance, I always say go QB, but I don't see Lance as in their territory, though maybe I'm wrong. It would just be hard to say no to the stud OT, or a trade down and taking a Rashaad Bateman, Rondale Moore etc and adding more pieces, imagine trading down and getting the ammo to land two legit OL prospects in the top 50 to go with that? I prefer the QB, but after the QB, trading down for multiple pieces is attractive, or even '22 pieces depending upon the quality of that QB class (definitely doesnt look as good at the top as this years but few ever do). 

 

But yeah, Darnold's appealing if he's cheap because he has the raw talent, and if we're out of the zone to get the QB at 1 or 2, then we could trade down and add more pieces via the draft (a WR, a RT or LT, an interior lineman) all with top 50-70 picks, that combined w/free agency would make his offense in washington better than any Jets offense he ever quarterbacked.

 

The Ghost's thing was a quote about a game against the Patriots (from a different post than yours). The Patriots are literally a team that run packages deliberately to fuzz up data for teams trying to game plan defensively against them in the playoffs. That's how ahead of the curve they've been in the Brady years. Anybody and everybody sees Ghosts against the patriots, if they didn't, the Patriots wouldn't have been to like 8 or 9 super bowls in 18 years, and like 10 conference title games.  I don't begrudge him that at all. he had the raw talent to be #1 on a lot of teams QB boards just 2.5 years ago, like most QB's, he's been awful w/no help. He was one of the best QB's in the league in December of '18, now with Robby Anderson gone, the OL decimated and no running game to speak of, he's awful. I'm gonna pin that on a coach whose sucked everywhere he's been a HC, and the terrible surrounding cast he's playing with.  However, all this being said, I'd be much more inclined to do this if I were a team with an OL and weapons, but no legit QB. That's not us, so for me it's a fall back scenario I wouldn't hate, but I'd be annoyed. 

 

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8 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:


. I don’t know. What would you do with a top 5 pick?

*If we have a top 2 pick, I'd take a QB.

 

*If we have a pick in a zone where someone at 1 or 2 would be willing to trade down with us, I'd trade up, no matter the cost. 

 

*If we can't move up because slot 1 and 2 won't trade, I'd trade down. This draft has like 3 or 4 top 10-12 rated OL's, and the top 5 WR's all have first round grades, in terms of top end elite depth, it's one of the top 3 WR crops I've ever seen alongside classes like '96, '01 (which had a lot of busts) and the mythical '14 crop that was the greatest ever. I'd be tempted to take Chase, but I think you can trade down and get a ton of help for the OL/secondary and still get an elite WR as well, which wouldn't be the worst fall back plan. 

 

*Lastly, I'd scout the hell out of the '22 QB class to see if there's any reason to add '22 assets like we should've been adding '21 assets last spring in order to faciliate a trade up for one of the studs of this upcoming class. This was known to be 2-3 elite QB's deep, maybe more, and a more forward looking franchise would've been banking picks to accomplish such a trade up last spring. At least we have two '21 thirds, so that helps a bit, but having an extra 1st or 2nd would've been better. 

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@The Consigliere Watching Darnold play... I’d say he’s been consistently seeing ghosts since then. His decisions have been really questionable on a game to game basis. 
 

He SAID the comment while playing the Pats. I just am not sure it ever really went away.

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Could be, I just think, if you give a QB:

 

*PFF's 27th ranked OL heading into the season.

 

*No RB whatsoever (I get that they had Bell, but he didnt want to be there, neither did the coach, and that's how ineffectual their approach w/him was)

 

*A WR corps whose best option, Jamison Crowder, hasn't finished above the top 50 in production ever, and is a slot option. 

*TE Corps that isn't used at all for whatever reason despite the talent Chris Herndon clearly has. 

 

You're going to have problems, like, HUGE problems. It's rare to find QB's suceeding with hot garbage for OL, and no pass catching and RB help. Honestly I can't even think of any that are, or ever have been? The closest analogy I could think of would be Fitzmagic last year in Miami, that OL wasn't good, and Parker has been crap for four straight years until he finally woke up. Other than him, and maybe Derek Carr, and both of those QB's aren't well thought of at all, have been able to do much of anything w/so little talent around them. 

 

The only elite QB I can think of that has anything close to that situation is Wilson, whose never had much help at WR till now, maybe Newton in Carolina, Rodgers hasn't had a lot of WR talent, but he has had a competent OL, 1 RB, and 1 WR. maybe Wentz, except people are out on him right now, that's about all I can think of.

 

So maybe you're right and he's officially been David Carr'd, regardless, I'd be going after the 1 or 2 slot in full tank mode, and I'd trade whatever it took to move up if we don't land a top 2 pick. So aggravated w/that win against philly, w/o that our chances would be so much better. At least we lost yesterday though.  

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I like Darnold too but I think he needs to sit for a year and reboot, so to speak.

 

Imagine if he went to like the Steelers for example and sat behind Big Ben for a bit and then stepped in and played for that organization.

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2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

When do we get to see "Lil' Tua", or Taulia Tagovailoa ?

 

I am not sure when the Dolphins will play Tua.   Taulia is starting for the University of Maryland this Saturday night against Northwestern.  Its his first college start.  I think the feel he is he has a somewhat similar game to his older brother but is a little less talented.  He'll be a good college QB, not sure about the NFL though.

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6 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Ultimately Chase Young was deemed to good to pass over at the #2 slot. 

 

Will Sewell be held in that regard in 2021 once Lawrence is off the board? Is he in that same category of perceived ‘talent’.

 

As good as Sewell may be, I'd be pissed if we took a tackle with a top 3 pick.

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1 minute ago, method man said:

 

As good as Sewell may be, I'd be pissed if we took a tackle with a top 3 pick.

 

I think there is a decent chance Sewell goes third after Lawrence and Fields so if we are at number 3 it would not at all be surprising.

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2 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I think there is a decent chance Sewell goes third after Lawrence and Fields so if we are at number 3 it would not at all be surprising.

 

A tackle only do so much. If we don't go QB in the 1st, I'd rather trade down with someone who really wants him, get another pick or two, and get myself a playmaker on the offensive or defensive side of the ball like Parsons

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47 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Ultimately Chase Young was deemed to good to pass over at the #2 slot. 

 

Will Sewell be held in that regard in 2021 once Lawrence is off the board? Is he in that same category of perceived ‘talent’.

I'm not sure I'd take Sewell over Fields at 2. At 3 or later though, yeah no issue taking Sewell. Give us a third straight decade of franchise LT play.

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Ultimately Chase Young was deemed to good to pass over at the #2 slot. 

 

Will Sewell be held in that regard in 2021 once Lawrence is off the board? Is he in that same category of perceived ‘talent’.

 

No and I remain 100% convinced that was the wrong choice. It didn't shock me that a defensive minded coach/former player w/a chance to select a generational (hah!, used the phrase for the haters 😉) on defense at one of the few positions worth using a top 10 pick on (QB, Edge, Interior DL, OT, DB, WR) did so considering the team had just used a top 15 pick a year earlier on a QB that was the owners favorite and had at least some exculpatory evidence to suggest that there was hope.

 

Still, I see zero chance the team passes on a QB if we slot in at 1 or 2, if we slot in below that, the chances grow dramatically depending upon the determination made by the tape grinders on Trey by early next spring. 

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They just flashed the 2018 first round QB's wins/losses during the Chiefs/Bills game.

 

#1 - Baker Mayfield 16-19

#3 - Sam Darnold 11-19

#7 - Josh Allen 19-13

#10 - Josh Rosen 3-13

#32 - Lamar Jackson 24-4

 

The WFT "should" be able to find a QB outside the top 3.

 

 

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1 hour ago, philibusters said:

 

I think there is a decent chance Sewell goes third after Lawrence and Fields so if we are at number 3 it would not at all be surprising.

 

If we pick third, it would be super interesting to see if we tried to sign Dak, or went after a Darnold or something, I definitely see us getting a starter in the '21 offseason, just not sure what the team will decide. 

 

For the Sewell fans, all I ever need to say is:

Samuels+Silverback for 18 straight seasons earned us 1 playoff win total, and a bottom 5 in the league record during that time period. Having an elite LT doesn't mean squat. It's only relevant if you have a great QB AND you also build at bare minimum an adequate OL or a + one. 

 

I just think some fans have such a love of the good ol days w/the Hogs that they forget that the Hogs were a massive unit w/depth, and not just Jim Lachey, or Joe Jacoby and a bunch of nobodies, and during those good ol days, the NFL was littered with teams contending or winning super bowls with merely average or worse QB's, some of those final fours included:

1981: Danny White vs Joe Montana and Kenny Anderson vs Dan Fouts

 1982: Danny White vs Joe Theismann, and David Woodley vs Richard Todd

1983: Joe Theismann vs Joe Montana and Jim Plunkett vs Dave Krieg

1984: Joe Montana vs Jim McMahon and Dan Marino vs Mark Malone

1985: Jim McMahon vs Dieter Brock and Tony Eason vs Dan Marino

1986: Jay Schroeder vs Phil Simms, John Elway vs Bernie Kosar

1987: Doug Williams vs Wade Wilson and John Elway vs Bernie Kosar

1988: Jim McMahon vs Joe Montana and Boomer Esiason vs Jim Kelly

1989: Joe Montana vs Jim Everett and John Elway vs Bernie Kosar

 

Compare to this past decade:

2011: Eli Manning* vs Alex Smith and Tom Brady vs Joe Flacco

2012: Kaepernick Vs Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco vs Tom Brady

2013: Russell Wilson vs Kaepernick  and Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady

2014: Russell Wilson vs Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady vs Andrew Luck*

2015: Cam Newton vs Carson Palmer and Tom Brady vs Peyton Manning

2016: Matt Ryan vs Aaron Rodgers and  Tom Brady vs Ben Roth

2017: Nick Foles vs Case Keenum and Tom Brady vs Blake Bortles

2018: Jared Goff vs Drew Brees and Tom Brady vs Patrick Mahomes

2019: Jimmy G vs  Aarron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes vs Ryan Tannehill

 

When you compare those decades, it should be unmistakable how much more important QB play is now, as compared to when the Hogs and the Redskins had the bulk of their run: 

The eighties featured 12 HOF QB appearances out of a possible 40 Quarterbacks in Championship games. I have the aught-teens featuring 23 HOF caliber QB's as well as Andrew Luck who would've been one if not for the Colts destroying his career (in fairness, Eli is mega shakey, but strikes me as a guy who will get in purely on the '07/'11 performances, we'll see if I'm right). 

 

It's basically a league today where the elite franchise QB's are dominating the top end of the league, and the only team that systematically broke through inspite of quarterback play was Baltimore, basically the other side of the Jim McMahon/Chicago card from the eighties. 

 

That's why to me the choice is simple and obvious, you go QB always and forever until you land the guy. LT's don't mean squat unless you have a great line AND a QB, and if you dig into some of those teams, quite a few of the teams over the past 15 years have made the final four of the NFL with average or worse OL grades too. What's rare is bad QB's making it, look at the list and you see a couple, Keenum, Foles, Bortles,  and a few middling guys like Goff, Jimmy G, Kaep, Flacco and Alex Smith, but there's a reason you don't see any of those guys twice other than Kaep/Alex Smith and Flacco, Kaep/Alex Smith made it three times because they had a top Defense in the league and an elite running game, ditto the Ravens w/Flacco, all the rest were one offs because bad QB's aren't going to have everything go their way typically more than once. 

 

 

Get the QB. Everything else is largely meaningless. 

 

And if you think we can get by on offense if we just build the OL to match that defensive front, by the time we have the OL, most of that DL will be gone via Free Agency, or the team will cap out before it can build a team around the lines. Get the QB on that rookie deal and go from there using free agency, picks and trades. 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

They just flashed the 2018 first round QB's wins/losses during the Chiefs/Bills game.

 

#1 - Baker Mayfield 16-19

#3 - Sam Darnold 11-19

#7 - Josh Allen 19-13

#10 - Josh Rosen 3-13

#32 - Lamar Jackson 24-4

 

The WFT "should" be able to find a QB outside the top 3.

 

 

 

The hit rate is incredibly low, it's rare as heck, and considering the odds, we already kind of got that hit w/Cousins, though that's bad math, you can hit whenever, it's just the hit rate plummets dramatically after the blue chip zone and especially after round 1, and it's getting harder, not easier, as teams apply analytics in order to try and stop themselves from missing on guys like Brady, Brees, and Wilson. Take a look at those teams? The Browns were coming off multiple near 0-16 runs when he arrived, Darnold arrived alongside a bottom 5 NFL coach and a bottom 5 NFL GM having napalmed the roster before, and somewhat after, Josh Rosen was drafted by an incompetent regime that was ---- canned immediately during and after his first season. 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

 

Get the QB. Everything else is largely meaningless. 

 

This pretty much nails it.

 

The argument really is: if you don't like the QB prospects, do you reach on them or take someone who looks to be a sure fire stud at another position and wait another year for a QB.

 

We had a top 2 pick last year and passed on a QB. Can we really afford to do that AGAIN? We may not have a pick in range for a legit prospect again for a while.

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