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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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I really want Lawrence but that's likely a pipe dream.

 

I'd be okay with Fields. But it would suck if we end up with another RG3 to Lawrence's Luck.

 

For once it'd be nice if WE got the guy that plays for a long time and stabilizes the position.

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Just now, Warhead36 said:

I really want Lawrence but that's likely a pipe dream.

 

I'd be okay with Fields. But it would suck if we end up with another RG3 to Lawrence's Luck.

 

For once it'd be nice if WE got the guy that plays for a long time and stabilizes the position.

 

Not sure why the assumption that Lawrence = Luck and Fields = RG3.

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Fields's arm strength is a little disappointing.  Fields released as the receiver starts breaking but the ball takes an extra beat to get there and the reason it wasn't an issue is because the DB fell down.  Looking at his throws outside the numbers, the receivers are consistently having to wait on the ball.  On others he's putting a ton of air under them and either losing his deep seam windows or he's putting his receivers into danger with how they have to go up and get the ball on plays that should be hitting them in the hands.

 

He can get by with an average arm, but to really deserve a first round grade, he's going to need to show growth as a reader this season.  Pre and post snap.

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17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Not sure why the assumption that Lawrence = Luck and Fields = RG3.

Well Luck was the sure thing as is Lawrence now. RG3 is the tantalizing talent but more risky like Fields appears to be.

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56 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I really, really like Fields.

 

LOL, yeah I am looking forward to watching next weeks Ohio State's game.  In about 2 weeks or so I'll have the time to start diving into prospects myself where I'll start my evaluations and i'll probably hit QB first. 

 

Love Justin Field's profile.   And like I've said a Qb coach who worked with both him and Haskins came off to me in a podcast being a bigger Fields fan.

 

I admit though even though I don't on the surface love Trey Lance's profile, raw, didn't play versus tough competition, etc.  Yet, some people who I respect really like him so i'll try to keep an open mind about him.

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30002738/who-trey-lance-meet-nfl-draft-darling-playing-only-once-fall

During game weeks, Lance studies hours of tape in preparation. On Mondays, he reviews the opponents' overall schemes; Tuesdays are for third down; Wednesdays for red zone; and Thursdays for two-minute offense. On Fridays, after cutting film the previous day, Lance presents the game plan to his receivers, telling them where they need to be in particular concepts.

"He studies the game very hard," Hedberg said. "I'd say he's a football junkie."

In Lance's first game at North Dakota State in 2018, he scored on a 44-yard run against North Alabama. In his second game against South Dakota, he fumbled, kicked the ball twice and still scooped it up and scored on a 23-yard run.

In his first start against Butler at Target Field in Minneapolis last season, he completed 10 of 11 passes for 185 yards with four touchdowns and ran for 116 yards with two scores.

"He doesn't get flat and he doesn't get rattled," Entz said. "This young man is different."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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From the Ohio State WR coach and actual WR who would know better than any of us

 

https://theozone.net/2019/05/justin-fields-stronger-dwayne-haskins/

While the accuracy between Haskins and Fields still has plenty of green space separating them, Hartline saw some similarity in arm strength between the two quarterbacks.

 

“Yeah, it’s hot. No doubt. He’s got a quick ball too,” he said. “Again, [Haskins] was different than Tate last year and different than Matt. So it’s always different. That’s it.”

 

With so many repetitions in practice and players swapping in and out like the world’s most physical game of musical chairs, receivers get used to seeing footballs from different quarterbacks. They adjust on the fly and try to make the plays that are available to be made.

This also allows them to judge quarterbacks against each other.

“It’s not really an adjustment, but I’d say Justin has a stronger arm, a stronger arm than Dwayne,” said senior H-back KJ Hill. “I feel like that’s the only adjustment is catching that hot ball.”

Fields has a stronger arm than Haskins?

“Yeah, he does,” Hill said. “Bullet. It’s coming faster.”

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19 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I'm no draft expert, but don't draft that UNC receiver who dropped the last UNC pass, to end their potential game-winning or game-tying drive, after being down by 24 points behind to begin the half.

You'd miss out on Jerry Rice if you used that thought process. Rice was a butter fingers nightmare early in his Niners career including an enormous flub against the Giants in the playoffs during the '86 season that was much bigger than whatever happened w/that UNC guy. I get the point, not exactly clutch, but innumerable guys have had nightmare performances, and moments and then gone on to greatness. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

From the Ohio State WR coach and actual WR who would know better than any of us

 

https://theozone.net/2019/05/justin-fields-stronger-dwayne-haskins/

While the accuracy between Haskins and Fields still has plenty of green space separating them, Hartline saw some similarity in arm strength between the two quarterbacks.

 

“Yeah, it’s hot. No doubt. He’s got a quick ball too,” he said. “Again, [Haskins] was different than Tate last year and different than Matt. So it’s always different. That’s it.”

 

With so many repetitions in practice and players swapping in and out like the world’s most physical game of musical chairs, receivers get used to seeing footballs from different quarterbacks. They adjust on the fly and try to make the plays that are available to be made.

This also allows them to judge quarterbacks against each other.

“It’s not really an adjustment, but I’d say Justin has a stronger arm, a stronger arm than Dwayne,” said senior H-back KJ Hill. “I feel like that’s the only adjustment is catching that hot ball.”

Fields has a stronger arm than Haskins?

“Yeah, he does,” Hill said. “Bullet. It’s coming faster.”


Huh. That sure does defeat the arm narrative...

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On 10/17/2020 at 1:04 PM, Anselmheifer said:

 

That and that the players are all prima donnas. Everyone wants to play in only the biggest markets, with good weather, and a good night life. And they all want to play together. If you are in DC, or anywhere that doesn't fit that description, you'll never get any top FA's and you'll struggle to keep your own. Super teams are obnoxious. Who wants to watch a league where it's almost a foregone conclusion before the season who is going to win. Kevin Durant joining the Warriors? Anthony Davis joining Lebron? Sure. That's fun if you live in California. Or enjoy watching a great team beat everyone else down. There is no competitive balance in that league. They ought to have a franchise tag. Or 2. 

Athletes are athletes in any sport. Good, bad, and indifferent. I agree that this has ruined basketball in a way that people like Bill Simmons, or Lakers fans, Miami fans etc don't seem to get, but basically like baseball, but much worse, the NBA is an exclusive club in terms of winning, and it's nearly hopeless if you're not in a "no income tax state" and/or in a big attractive city. Over time it's only gonna get worse, and the NBA will continue to look like the EPL, or La Liga, or the Bundesliga where there are 1-2 or 3 contenders, and everyone else just hopes for a run to the playoffs and little else. So I 100% agree w/that indictment, but the players themselves, I don't agree w/that. The league is the way it is because of small roster size, and the relative power of the players themselves as a result to dictate terms. In the NFL, MLB, even Hockey, rosters need to be deep for a team to be successful, in the NBA, having a big 2 or big 3 can be all you need, so it's particularly vulnerable to player power moves in a way the NFL, MLB, or Hockey simply isn't, and everything flows out from that. If you're a great NBA player, why wouldn't you pick SF, LA, Chicago, Miami, Dallas, San Antonio, or Boston (and NYC if they ever crawl out from their ineptitude (nobody has ever done less w/more than teams like the Knicks). 

 

 

 

Huge loss for the tank. Unfortunately we're in a crappy division, but it's these games we gotta lose and they pulled it off :). 

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21 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Huh. That sure does defeat the arm narrative...

The second part is Fields’ arm. The Buckeyes are usually catching those outs 10 to 12 yards from the line of scrimmage. But Fields is releasing the ball seven years behind the line of scrimmage. So that’s nearly 20 yards down the field. The throws go from a hash mark to the far sideline, not the near sideline. From the opposite hash to the far side is 26 yards. If you don’t have some juice on that ball, you’re inviting an aggressive cornerback to jump the route, catch your floater and think about a pick-six.

 

“Many, many factors go into that to make it work, but the most important factor is to have the arm strength to get it there, and he has that, obviously,” quarterbacks coach Mike Yurcich said earlier this season.

 

“I do feel like I’ve been blessed with arm strength, so it’s not really a hard thing for me to do,” Fields said.

 

When teams talk about NFL throws from college quarterbacks, this is one to discuss. That out throw to the far sideline can look like a rainbow from the wrong guy. From Fields, it looks easy.

 

But there’s precision to that as well, and that’s where the coaches and the quarterback have come a long way in a short time working together.

 

“Arm strength is a funny thing,” Ryan Day said in breaking down this throw. "Being a quarterback, we can talk for hours about what really arm strength is. It’s not the strength of your arm physically. It’s all about sequencing -- how you can take energy from the ground up. He does an excellent job of that.

 

“So much of it has to do with your footwork, making sure your cleats are in the ground, you’re driving the football. Some guys have naturally better whip than other guys, push the ball down the field. There’s a certain level of just natural ability and understanding that. A lot of it is coaching and understanding the footwork, timing of the footwork to make sure the ball comes out at the right time with the right pace.”

 

With Fields’ arm ability, Yurcich said the Buckeyes have no limits on their passing game.

 

“You can attack all of the areas of the field that you need to,” he said.

 

When asked this week for the throw he makes best, Fields picked this one.

 

“The out route, I’ve practiced that a lot since high school, so that’s one of my better throws,” Fields said. “With Coach Day’s coaching, he makes it easier on me with the footwork. And

especially with the receivers, they definitely make it easy on me.”

 

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Article/Ohio-State-football-Justin-Fields-threw-a-football-75-yards-as-high-school-senior-148263303/

On Tuesday, Max Preps' Twitter account (courtesy of another account called QB Collective) posted a video of Fields as a senior in high school throwing a football 75 yards. By comparison, Ohio State national championship-winning quarterback Cardale Jones, known for his cannon of an arm, threw a football 74 yards to win a competition with J.T. Barrett and Troy Smith in 2015.

 

ttps://www.cleveland.com/osu/2019/10/ohio-state-football-qb-justin-fields-has-a-best-throw-that-defenses-cant-stop.html

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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More Fields hype

 

giphy.gif

 

 

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/georgia-football-spring-practice-justin-fields-arm-updates

“Great arm,” Wims said. “Cannon.”

And that was a description that was offered over and over.

“He’s got a cannon,” junior tight end Isaac Nauta said. “He’s a big, physical kid. … He’s a really good kid, too. I like the way he acts and his demeanor. He doesn’t get too big of a head. He’s very level-headed. And coming in to a place like this that’s what you’ve got to be.”

Senior wideout Terry Godwin said, “He’s got a nice arm. He’s a quarterback. We’re not recruiting a guy who doesn’t have a great arm. … But, overall, he’s a great guy. In 7-on-7, he’s been out there throwing the ball, knowing the checks and everything. He’s carrying himself very well.”

For the record, coach Kirby Smart hates such talk. He loathes people heaping praise on players who haven’t yet proven themselves in the heat of meaningful competition.

But he also had some nice things to say about Fields, who Georgia had to pry away from an early commitment to Penn State and fight off virtually every SEC and ACC team to land him.

“He’s done a tremendous job in the offseason workouts,” Smart said at his spring practice news conference. “He’s a competitor. He competes every day. He’s first in line trying to compete with every guy at his position. From a football standpoint, we haven’t been able to see a whole lot because we haven’t been able to do a whole lot. But he’s a very bright kid, and I’m excited to go see him practice.”

Recruiting analysts and those who have worked with Fields in elite prospect camps have maintained all along not to sleep on his passing ability. At Harrison High School, he rushed for 2,096 yards and 28 touchdowns, but he also threw for 4,187 and 41 more scores. So he was truly a dual threat.

At Georgia, Fields is working behind Jake Fromm, who earned SEC freshman of the year honors as a 14-game starter and 13-game winner last year. Fromm’s obvious edge is having been through all those battles and having complete command of the playbook.

But Fields also has impressed in the meeting room. And he didn’t win Elite 11 MVP honors on his running ability. He trained under Ron Veal — the same quarterback coach as Clemson 5-star freshman Trevor Lawrence — and plans to dedicate himself in the film room as much as the weight room.

 

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Count me on the Sewell train. Even with a bad team, our DL is fun to watch in the trenches. I want more maulers to watch on the offensive side. Our OL gets embarrassed at the LOS every week and it sets the tone for our lame offense. Give me Sewell 1st and the best interior lineman in the 2nd. The snowball effect it would have on our offense would surprise a lot of people, imo.

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Sounds like he has a good arm... just like, in my opinion, the film shows.

 

Live arm, on-point mechanics, excellent weight transfer, shoulder arc, torque on delivery. He has a good mind for the game and shows excellent escapability through the interior and exterior, stands tall in the pocket and will climb to buy himself time. He gets through his reads pretty well most of the time, too, and delivers an on time ball.

 

The things I see I don’t like are that he at times stares down his target and waits for the play to develop. He usually gets away with it in college, but the NFL he’ll need to reduce that habit more. It’s not egregious, but it’s there. 
 

He also has very quality receivers and a good line, so he’s in a good spot to be in. 
 

But I really think this guy has the absolute goods. 

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8 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Count me on the Sewell train. Even with a bad team, our DL is fun to watch in the trenches. I want more maulers to watch on the offensive side. Our OL gets embarrassed at the LOS every week and it sets the tone for our lame offense. Give me Sewell 1st and the best interior lineman in the 2nd. The snowball effect it would have on our offense would surprise a lot of people, imo.

Sewell is locked into my #2 preference, behind lawrence.  Can't pass on lawrence, but sewell seems like a safe pick with a high ceiling at a premium position.  I don't feel comfortable enough with fields or lance, wouldn't take a wr that high, and think sewell is he'd and shoulders above rest of prospects.  

 

I'd love to get an impact lb on day two, and a couple versatile d backs and good oline prospects on day 3.  And we would still have a lot of holes.  This team has a long way to go.

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13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Sounds like he has a good arm... just like, in my opinion, the film shows.

 

Live arm, on-point mechanics, excellent weight transfer, shoulder arc, torque on delivery. He has a good mind for the game and shows excellent escapability through the interior and exterior, stands tall in the pocket and will climb to buy himself time. He gets through his reads pretty well most of the time, too, and delivers an on time ball.

 

The things I see I don’t like are that he at times stares down his target and waits for the play to develop. He usually gets away with it in college, but the NFL he’ll need to reduce that habit more. It’s not egregious, but it’s there. 
 

He also has very quality receivers and a good line, so he’s in a good spot to be in. 
 

But I really think this guy has the absolute goods. 

 

If he has a season like last year, I gather he's going to be slam dunk the dude that some team takes at the 2nd pick in the draft.

 

From what i've read he also has the intangibles-maturity that Haskins arguably lacks.

 

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2020/05/114220/quarterback-trainer-quincy-avery-works-with-justin-fields-on-staying-consistent-in-months-away-from-ohio-state

 

During an interview on The Paul Finebaum Show on Thursday, Avery described Fields as “the most talented quarterback that I’ve ever come in contact with,” which is saying a lot considering that Avery has also worked with several quarterbacks who are already in the NFL, including Deshaun Watson and Dwayne Haskins. Asked about that comment by Eleven Warriors on Friday, Avery clarified it a bit, but nonetheless made it clear he views Fields as a special talent.

“When I said that, you’re doing an interview and you’re kind of talking quick, but what I really meant is like, at this point in their career, Justin is as talented as anybody that I’ve worked with,” Avery said. “And I think that people at Ohio State have seen that. He has the ability to do all these different things with his arm. And then if things break down, he also has the capability to run a 4.4(-second 40-yard dash) and make something electric happen with his legs. That’s really what I’m talking about is he can make all the throws, and I think people see that, but he also has the added dimension of being absolutely electric with his legs.”

Beyond his physical ability, Fields has also impressed Avery with his work ethic.

“He works as hard as any other college guy that I’ve seen,” Avery said. “Any time he’s back in town, it’s a quick text like ‘Yo, what’s going on, when are we getting throwing?’ And as soon as that happens, we get right to work. But he’s nonstop. I didn’t know that he was doing all this other work the whole time he’s been here. He’s doing strength and conditioning, running, he’s also throwing with Ron Veal. He’s nonstop working in terms of his offseason, which I think is very impressive.”

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

You'd miss out on Jerry Rice if you used that thought process. Rice was a butter fingers nightmare early in his Niners career including an enormous flub against the Giants in the playoffs during the '86 season that was much bigger than whatever happened w/that UNC guy. I get the point, not exactly clutch, but innumerable guys have had nightmare performances, and moments and then gone on to greatness. 

 

 

 

 

Well, at least I'm not alone in my NFL drafting futility, as I share that same fate of "passing on Jerry Rice", as the Jets and Bengals FO, who both selected a WR in the First Round, when Jerry Rice was there for the taking :)

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I'm with McQueen on Fields.  But I will watch him closely this season starting Saturday.   I watched a handful of Ohio St games last year (casually not focusing on Fields) and it was obvious he was good QB, but I wasn't wow'ed.  Part of it is just the spread offense.   Some people are saying they are not wow'ed by Trevor Lawrence and probably is partly the same thing as Fields, they see a lot of short throws and the QB throwing to his first read and wonder how they will translate to the NFL.   So I am not entirely consistent in that the same things that make me a little skeptical of Fields do not make me skeptical about Lawrence.

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23 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've watched Trask this season, can't make up my mind about him but worry about his lack of zip on throws.  I am not into arm strength being the key criteria but I do get concerned about QBs who might not have enough.

 

I have to watch Zach Wilson, sounds like he might not though enter this draft.

 

 

 

 

https://nflmocks.com/2020/10/08/2021-nfl-draft-zach-wilson-first-round/

 

Wilson’s recent play has catapulted into both the Heisman and NFL conversation. The BYU quarterback has the sixth best odds (20/1) to win the coveted award. ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr. put Wilson as his fifth ranked quarterback in the 2021 NFL Draft.

“He’s on fire. Wilson has added weight and strength to his 6-3 frame, and he is sensing pressure well, manipulating the pocket and showing off his arm. He throws a great ball. Again, Wilson could stay in school and enter the 2022 draft, but he is a legit prospect.”

Mel Kiper Jr. (via ESPN)


If BYU keeps winning, the hype will continue and he will be a top of first round lock. I bet he passes Lance to become the no. 3 guy. Trask is out of the picture given lack of mobility and arm strength

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4 minutes ago, method man said:


If BYU keeps winning, the hype will continue and he will be a top of first round lock. I bet he passes Lance to become the no. 3 guy. Trask is out of the picture given lack of mobility and arm strength

 

Will see.  I haven't studied Lance.  I have watched some highlights, in those it was clear to see the dude has a rocket, effortless-accurate deep ball.  And he's superfast.  In the short sample, he reminded me some of RG3 in some ways.  But got to watch him more. 

 

Wilson I've watched just a little, I wondered about arm strength watching him, but it was a very small sample so don't know yet.  He's Tony Romo on steriods as for movement in the pocket, he dodges presure and maneuvers well, good touch on his throws. 

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wilson I've watched just a little, I wondered about arm strength watching him, but it was a very small sample so don't know yet.  He's Tony Romo on steriods as for movement in the pocket, he dodges presure and maneuvers well, good touch on his throws. 

 

I watched some of the BYU-Houston game on Friday, one thing I notice about Wilson is he seems to take a really long stride when throwing--it doesn't seem to be an "easy heat." Seems to be a high-effort delivery. Maybe that's just my very novice eyes. 

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12 hours ago, KDawg said:

Huh. That sure does defeat the arm narrative...

 

Not when I can see for myself the velocity of his throws like those ones in the Clemson game.  The two where the WR had to wait on the ball outside the numbers, the deep out he floated that got easily broken up, the middle seam throw in the end zone he skyed and ended up running out of field on, the hospital throw he made to the WR at the five yardline where the guy had to go up and get the ball and the Clemson defender got him by the legs, the deep post he floated for a TD but wouldn't have had a window at that velocity if there had been a safety in the deep zone, the deep post he floated into the back of the end zone but the WR was out of bounds when the ball finally arrived, etc.

 

I can see him hitching and hesitating on throws where he's not sure if he's got the time and space to really drive the ball with the necessary velocity and he loses the window.  That's what happened on that pick he threw to Simmons I think.  And I can see him winding up big to fit that middle seam throw.  The guy in that tweet thread pointed out how Fields has a tendency to try and aim downfield throws with this shoulders heavy action instead of ripping them and he doesn't get any velocity on those balls, and he is right.  Fields is a touch thrower and he reminds me of Daniel Jones in the way he throws the ball and in arm talent.  There is a really noticeable difference in arm strength between him and Lawrence/Lance.  It's ok to have an average arm, but he's going to have to get way better as an anticipatory thrower to compensate for it.  His Ohio State windows aren't coming with him to the NFL and he's not going to be able to sit on throws like he does now.

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2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I watched some of the BYU-Houston game on Friday, one thing I notice about Wilson is he seems to take a really long stride when throwing--it doesn't seem to be an "easy heat." Seems to be a high-effort delivery. Maybe that's just my very novice eyes. 

 

I admit I really have to sit and watch and study these guys before landing on an opinon.  Not saying my thoughts are on the money but at least then i have more confidence in my opinion.  If I had to think about the positions I've gotten right the most (but far from always) on it would be TE, WR, CB, RB.  QB i've been very hit and miss but its fun to try. 

 

Right now for me its casually watching them and also reading their profiles but my opinon can change when I delve deeper and ironically Haskins for me is a big time case in point.  i initially liked Haskins at the beginning of the draft process. 

 

  @volsmet (who wasn't a Haskins guy to say the least) really pushed me to do this ironically on Haskins before the draft.  I liked at the time what I saw from Haskins without thinking that deeply because I saw accuracy.  But delving deeper as he encouraged me to do, I saw Haskins accuracy not being that hot.  Haskins accuracy was hot with certain routes and spots basically 5-10 yards in routes -- slants, digs, crosses.  He was great at planting the ball perfectly in stride of the receivers and then they'd take off.  PFF statistically showed Haskins was one of the most reliant on YAC of any Qb coming out that year.  But when it came to the deep ball -- "meh'. Out routes -- "meh". Throwing on the move "meh'.  Even short passes in the flat if he had to turn to throw them -- throws by the numbers, his accuracy was erratic.  And if I needed more confirmation, I watched him throw a ton in camp -- same stuff.  he is a wiz with the short in routes but wildly erratic with almost everything else. 

 

But Ohio State was so good with what Haskins did best that if you casually watch him, you IMO could miss all the type of throws he struggled with.

 

Daniel Jones, too.  You can see patterns with Jones like Haskins he thrives with the underneath stuff, but his accuracy was wild outside of that.  

 

While Haskins has the stronger arm he still doesn't step into his throws enough to showcase it consistently (and while he has a strong arm its not rocket level-elite) and his accuracy -- arm strength or not wasn't good outside of the easier in route throws.   Jones throws a better ball IMO in the flat outside the numbers, has better touch, and is more accurate with out route throws.  Haskins is better IMO with the short to medium intermediate stuff in between the numbers, he is a wiz with that.    But both to me looked like projects who struck me as unlikely to ever be franchise material.  

 

Long story short, I don't want to rush myself into an opinion about the current QBs.  But I do tend to favor QBs with mobility and high intangibles.  And Lawrence and Fields clearly fit that mold.  Maybe Lance, too. 

 

 

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