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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK to each their own.  For me everytime i watch Harris in particular, I am blown away.   His stats back it up and more some -- almost 1500 yards on the ground, 400 plus as a receiver, 26 TDs.  Those are crazy numbers.  If that makes him just an decent RB but nothing special -- than last college season had to be some miracle for Harris.  Those aren't common numbers for even elite college running backs

 

Lots of talk in South Florida about the Dolphins taking Harris at #18.  I got a lot of friends/family who are Dolphin fans and the idea from what I can tell isn't met with one whit of scorn or disappointment unlike some of the sentiment about Harris on this thread.    The Dolphin fans, at least the ones I know, seem jazzed by it.  

 

Etienne who broke the rushing record for the ACC, has some Dalvin Cook in him.  But just that mere thought brings me back to the idea of taking Dalvin Cook wasn't warmly embraced on this thread either.   Cook was trashed, too. 

 

So I guess it comes with the turf at the RB spot.   I am trying to recall a RB that was universally embraced here -- maybe Barkley?

 

 

 

I like Harris and there are some teams like Pittsburgh and Miami that should look at him in the 1st.  But the guy is already 23 and benefitted from being a grown ass man and surrounded by Alabama greatness.  He's going to be a solid RB for several years but he is not a build your offense around prospect like so many recent backs that have come out like Barkley, CMC, Elliott, etc.  He is not in that club and when you're not in the club, what's the point really? 

 

And Etienne is a notch or two lower than Harris as a prospect and super redundant to what we already have in Gibson.  I've felt he's been destined to become a Jet this whole time so via con dios over there...

 

I just don't understand how anyone can advocate RB for this team in the 1st.  We have a dynamic one already.  We have a very good scat back.  Just go to FA to upgrade the Barber role.  If it was a Barkley level prospect I'd get it, maybe, but its not even close.

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2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

CJ Mosley was very good in Bmore. He just had a shoulder injury and then opted out for COVID. Not sure what that has to do with Alabama. 
 

Reuben Foster looked like an All pro the first part of his rookie season. Career derailed by personal life struggles and a huge non contact injury. 
 

Donta Hightower?
 

I wouldn’t say Alabama’s LB’s aren’t good. 

I knew I was forgetting someone. Hightower is good, but they have a lot of prospects that seem to underperform at the LB position IMO. I'm not saying it's some Alabama curse or something, but it is something I thought I'd point out. It's not like their DT prospects where almost every one of them perform. Alabama recruits and develops really good DTs, linebackers have it easy there. 

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At some point you have to try and get your QB if you think you have a shot, regardless of whether you have a great supporting cast or not. You keep building that up once you have the guy.

 

"We had holes that we really wish we'd filled with those picks"  - Literally zero people in KC

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2 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

I like Harris and there are some teams like Pittsburgh and Miami that should look at him in the 1st.  But the guy is already 23 and benefitted from being a grown ass man and surrounded by Alabama greatness.  He's going to be a solid RB for several years but he is not a build your offense around prospect like so many recent backs that have come out like Barkley, CMC, Elliott, etc.  He is not in that club and when you're not in the club, what's the point really? 

 

And Etienne is a notch or two lower than Harris as a prospect and super redundant to what we already have in Gibson.  I've felt he's been destined to become a Jet this whole time so via con dios over there...

 

I just don't understand how anyone can advocate RB for this team in the 1st.  We have a dynamic one already.  We have a very good scat back.  Just go to FA to upgrade the Barber role.  If it was a Barkley level prospect I'd get it, maybe, but its not even close.


Context matters. No one is advocating him over a top 3 tackle for instance. It will always depend on the board.

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Just now:  My picks On The Clock - Steve Shoup

 

19: R1 P19 QB Trey Lance - North Dakota State
51: R2 P19 OT Dillon Radunz - North Dakota State
74: R3 P10 LB Chazz Surratt - North Carolina
82: R3 P18 TE Brevin Jordan - Miami
124: R4 P19 LB Baron Browning - Ohio State
163: R5 P19 S Jamar Johnson - Indiana
244: R7 P16 WR Simi Fehoko - Stanford
246: R7 P18 WR Theo Howard - Oklahoma
Edited by RWJ
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Every time I watch Davis Mills, my immediate reaction is "man, that guy looks like an NFL QB". I think he just looks so natural at the position and it's immediately noticeable, he makes it look easy. His footwork, he seems to throw a consistent tight spiral, fits the ball in difficult windows, and he looks like he processes the field well. I watched an interview though and he comes off as very timid and nervous, i'm not sure if he's an alpha type leader, but then again Alex Smith is quiet and leads by example, so that leadership style can work. 

 

He looks like he's been extremely well-coached, but he really needed to play another year of college ball because he's a hard eval and there isn't much tape on him. This could be a legitimate steal in the 2nd round, I don't think he needs too much coaching, it's more of him getting used to the NFL game. I feel like his flaws are a lack of film and injuries, not so much his play. 

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8 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Every time I watch Davis Mills, my immediate reaction is "man, that guy looks like an NFL QB". I think he just looks so natural at the position and it's immediately noticeable, he makes it look easy. His footwork, he seems to throw a consistent tight spiral, fits the ball in difficult windows, and he looks like he processes the field well. I watched an interview though and he comes off as very timid and nervous, i'm not sure if he's an alpha type leader, but then again Alex Smith is quiet and leads by example, so that leadership style can work. 

 

He looks like he's been extremely well-coached, but he really needed to play another year of college ball because he's a hard eval and there isn't much tape on him. This could be a legitimate steal in the 2nd round, I don't think he needs too much coaching, it's more of him getting used to the NFL game. 

Yoda, I think we draft a QB this year.  RR and Co. can say what they want to say.  We have Fitz under a 1 year deal.  Someone needs to be groomed and I believe they draft a QB this year.  Just a guess but to me it seems obvious.  RR, Mayhew and Hurney and anyone else can say what they want to say but in the end I think we draft a QB this year.

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17 minutes ago, dyst said:

@Burgundy Yoda Mills’ tape does look good. Just looks smooth out there.

He does but I have heard and can't confirm he's made some bone headed throws but what do you expect from a QB that has had little time to play against his competition.   I like him but not in the 2nd.  

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Micah Parsons growing on me as I watch more. Watch this KDawg and tell me it isn't a match for our need at LB. getting downhill and attacking gaps. Penetrating. Run defense and pass rush. In the second video, I also thought he looked better than expected in coverage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Every time I watch Davis Mills, my immediate reaction is "man, that guy looks like an NFL QB". I think he just looks so natural at the position and it's immediately noticeable, he makes it look easy. His footwork, he seems to throw a consistent tight spiral, fits the ball in difficult windows, and he looks like he processes the field well. I watched an interview though and he comes off as very timid and nervous, i'm not sure if he's an alpha type leader, but then again Alex Smith is quiet and leads by example, so that leadership style can work. 

 

He looks like he's been extremely well-coached, but he really needed to play another year of college ball because he's a hard eval and there isn't much tape on him. This could be a legitimate steal in the 2nd round, I don't think he needs too much coaching, it's more of him getting used to the NFL game. I feel like his flaws are a lack of film and injuries, not so much his play. 

I'm just not comfortable with a guy whose first name sounds like a last name.

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47 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

I'm just not comfortable with a guy whose first name sounds like a last name.

That's about the silliest thing I've heard of in awhile.

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11 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

I like Harris and there are some teams like Pittsburgh and Miami that should look at him in the 1st.  But the guy is already 23 and benefitted from being a grown ass man and surrounded by Alabama greatness.  He's going to be a solid RB for several years but he is not a build your offense around prospect like so many recent backs that have come out like Barkley, CMC, Elliott, etc.  He is not in that club and when you're not in the club, what's the point really? 

 

And Etienne is a notch or two lower than Harris as a prospect and super redundant to what we already have in Gibson.  I've felt he's been destined to become a Jet this whole time so via con dios over there...

 

I just don't understand how anyone can advocate RB for this team in the 1st.  We have a dynamic one already.  We have a very good scat back.  Just go to FA to upgrade the Barber role.  If it was a Barkley level prospect I'd get it, maybe, but its not even close.

 

I took the argument outside the position need debate since you challenged whether they were even that good.

 

I was one of Antonio Gibson's biggest fans before we took him in the last draft and remain a fan.  I don't think Mckissic is a "very good" back.  He is a good pass catcher.  The running game didn't seem hot when Gibson was out.    Some good teams have two really good backs.  But yeah if I thought McKissic was a very good RB and he was as good as Harris or Etienne or close enough, It would be yawn to me too. 

 

Not sure how taking Harris would be a good move for Miami in the first but not for us if Harris isn't a featured back-stud type like you suggest.    If Harris is who you suggest he is -- he should go in the third round.  Maybe he does?  Will see.    Or if Miami takes him there and he isn't anything great, then that is a lousy pick in the first.  Will see. 

 

I do think its a waste of time argument because I seriously doubt we take him.  So aside from revisting the point later next season if Harris isn't really a special back but benefitted from as you say being surrounded by Alabama "greatness" that just rubbed off him when he played.  Will see.  You never know.   It will be interesting to watch.  To me eyes the dude is a beast.    But I don't guess every player right by a long stretch.  If so, Harris would be a big whiff from me because I am pretty convinced about him. 

 

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Woke up and decided to do a mock. I could live with this draft. 

Screen Shot 2021-04-18 at 12.58.43 AM.png

 

The first two are among my favorite players in the draft.  If we skip tackle in the first, Radunz is who I want in the 2nd. 

 

I doubt Devonta falls that far down but I think there if there is a dude who might fall like Jonathan Allen did -- it might be him.

 

I like Werner in that range.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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7 hours ago, RWJ said:

He does but I have heard and can't confirm he's made some bone headed throws but what do you expect from a QB that has had little time to play against his competition.   I like him but not in the 2nd.  

 

Yeah and this is one of my issues with Mills. It's also something JT O'Sullivan pointed out and showed examples of. At times he just seems to not see what's going on or be able to diagnose it well and makes very dumb throws. That or it will be a huge miss where he'll have a guy wide open (wide open by college standards even) and not hit him. 

 

It certainly could be a result of having limited starts, but with that kind of on and off play as well as such limited experience I can't see taking him in the 2nd.

 

IMO there's nothing really elite about him that should push him way up draft boards, as is usually the case for very inexperienced QBs who still get picked relatively high. He's decent at a lot of stuff but nothing really "wows". Good but not great arm, good but not great athleticism, smooth but sometimes inconsistent mechanics, makes some really nice throws but then makes almost as many boneheaded ones, put up good but not great numbers.

 

His main selling points now are mostly based on the fact that he was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and he plays in a pro style system. There's really not all that much else there at the moment.

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22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's not my top receiver.  I am working on my rankings, I got him at #8.  I think he's overrated by some. But for me uninspiring wouldn't be what comes to mind for Toney.  He's got his faults but he's a pretty exciting player.  He and Rondale Moore are insane YAC guys on video game crazy level.  I worry though about both of their abilities to stay healthy the way they play.  Both have already struggled with that in college and I'd expect that to continue in the pros.  

 

I wouldn't touch Toney in the first though.  Late 2nd is a different story.  But if Schrager is right, he won't be there in the late 2nd.  That's cool with me.  Schrager who isn't a draftnik type at all -- is though typically plugged in.  So while I doubt Toney goes top 15, I wouldn't be shocked if he goes in the first.  Personally, I don't like him in the first but late 2nd while he wouldn't be my top choice even there I wouldn't hate Toney at all at 51. 

 

6th round?  He's measurables are just OK.  And some (me included) feel that its relevant what type of competition you are facing.  BYU wasn't exactly facing killer opponents.  Same issue I have in judging Matt Bushman at TE, who I also I see in that 6th round range give or take. 

Perhaps uninspired wasn't the correct word to use as he can be exciting with the ball in his hand. Perhaps disillusioned lol. Any mock that has WFT taking Toney in the 1st, whether at 19 or later in a trade scenarion I don't like. I am just not that big of a fan of his and see so many other positions I would rather see filled. If they decided the take a WR at 19 for me it would need to be one of the big three that fell. If they went with one later in the 1st it would need to Bateman or maybe Marshall. I really would rather it be a T, LB or DB in the first.

 

Milne in the 6th, that would be a worthy pick. The WR depth is really incredible this year.

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8 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Every time I watch Davis Mills, my immediate reaction is "man, that guy looks like an NFL QB". I think he just looks so natural at the position and it's immediately noticeable, he makes it look easy. His footwork, he seems to throw a consistent tight spiral, fits the ball in difficult windows, and he looks like he processes the field well. I watched an interview though and he comes off as very timid and nervous, i'm not sure if he's an alpha type leader, but then again Alex Smith is quiet and leads by example, so that leadership style can work. 

 

He looks like he's been extremely well-coached, but he really needed to play another year of college ball because he's a hard eval and there isn't much tape on him. This could be a legitimate steal in the 2nd round, I don't think he needs too much coaching, it's more of him getting used to the NFL game. I feel like his flaws are a lack of film and injuries, not so much his play. 

 

I've watched as much as I could of Mills.  Yeah I've seen some interviews too and commented on one of them here.  Daniel Jones, who I made fun of as for his personality before the 2019 draft, comes off more lively than Mills.  Mills' interviews are like watching paint dry.  I've seen a few of them now.   Maybe I am catching the wrong ones.   

 

Mills to me is who the few Trask fans among the mock drafters think Trask is but IMO Trask isn't.   I don't see any special traits from Trask or him being sneaky better at this or that than what people think albeit that's often the narrative pushed about him for those who like him or that he has elite accuracy which IMO he doesn't have.  As for Mills, I love how he changes speeds and puts touch on his throws -- he does it better IMO than Trask.  And unlike Trask, he isn't a statue back there.   But hard for me to land on anything else with conviction on Mills.  With Mills it seems like hey for a pocket passer he has "a little" of this and that.  He's the dude IMO who is sneaky better at this or that than the average pocket passer.  But is that enough?  He has "a litle" mobility.  He can make some off script throws "a little".  He doesn't have a rocket but his arm is "a little" above average.   

 

For me it feels like celebrating C plus or B minus talent.  He has traits that are a little above average.  So what's his ceiling in the NFL?  A 15-20 type of QB?  I think Fitzpatrick is already that. 

 

Beyond that my issue with Mills is he has stretches in games where his accuracy just oddly vanishes and makes boneheaded decisions for a periods.  He can be a tale of two cities within the same game.  It's odd.  And then you add the injury history.

 

I wouldn't hate them taking Mills.   I think he has a shot of being a marginal starter.  Worse case, you can perhaps unload him later for a pick.  I don't see him as a likely bust.  But aside from being a 5 star recruit, I don't see high upside talent.  My only pause on that is the touch-speed he puts on throws does look great but can that trait make you a special QB in itself?  I don't think so but i'd be be more sold on it if i didn't see the accuracy/decision making issues that seem to plague him at spots during a game.  

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45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I took the argument outside the position 

The first two are among my favorite players in the draft.  If we skip tackle in the first, Radunz is who I want in the 2nd. 

 

I doubt Devonta falls that far down but I think there if there is a dude who might fall like Jonathan Allen did -- it might be him.

 

I like Werner in that range.  

I couldn't pass on Smith when he was still there, the value was way too good even though another WR isn't a massive need. I have this strange feeling he does fall though, just not all the way down to 19. 

 

I haven't watched too much of Radunz but it seemed like good value and it fills a need. I'm okay with taking a tackle in the 2nd if someone falls into our laps in the 1st. I liked the first 5 picks, but I almost wanted to pass on Mond because he has a low chance of panning out. Can get a good quality player with that pick, potentially a day one starter, which Mond will not be. 

 

Trill Williams has the size/speed combo I like, Chris Harris might be able to coach him up into a pretty good outside CB. I have no idea who Wildgoose is, that selection was solely based off of his name. 

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38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've watched as much as I could of Mills.  Yeah I've seen some interviews too and commented on one of them here.  Daniel Jones, who I made fun of as for his personality before the 2019 draft, comes off more lively than Mills.  Mills' interviews are like watching paint dry.  I've seen a few of them now.   Maybe I am catching the wrong ones.   

 

Mills to me is who the few Trask fans among the mock drafters think Trask is but IMO Trask isn't.   I don't see any special traits from Trask or him being sneaky better at this or that than what people think albeit that's often the narrative pushed about him for those who like him.  As for Mills, I love how he changes speeds and puts touch on his throws -- he does it better IMO than Trask.  And unlike Trask, he isn't a statue back there.   But hard for me to land on anything else with conviction on Mills.  With Mills it seems like hey for a pocket passer he has "a little" of this and that.  He's the dude IMO who is sneaky better at this or that than the average pocket passer.  But is that enough?  He has "a litle" mobility.  He can make some off script throws "a little".  He doesn't have a rocket but his arm is "a little" above average.   

 

For me it feels like celebrating C plus or B minus talent.  He has traits that are a little above average.  So what's his ceiling in the NFL?  A 15-20 type of QB?  I think Fitzpatrick is already that. 

 

Beyond that my issue with Mills is he has stretches in games where his accuracy just oddly vanishes and makes boneheaded decisions for a periods.  He can be a tale of two cities within the same game.  It's odd.  And then you add the injury history.

 

I wouldn't hate them taking Mills.   I think he has a shot of being a marginal starter.  Worse case, you can perhaps unload him later with a pick.  I don't see him as a likely bust.  But aside from being a 5 star recruit, I don't see high upside talent.  My only pause on that is the touch-speed he puts on throws does look great but can that trait make you a special QB in itself?  I don't think so but i'd be be more sold on it if i didn't see the accuracy/decision making issues that seem to plague him at spots during a game.  

Yeah, he's extremely dry, Trask is kind of the same way honestly.

 

These are all pretty good points that you brought up. He's a hard eval for me, he looks the part but he doesn't have the actual arm talent traits that special NFL QBs have. Ball doesn't really pop, but he does throw a nice spiral, has good touch, and the placement seems good for the most part. He stands out for me because of the fluidity in his game, there's not a lot of standing around or wasted movement. Mond is kind of the opposite for me, seems very robotic or mechanical and doesn't move around in the pocket as efficiently Mills. 

 

I also notice an alarming lack of passion in Mills's game. Like when I watch the guy, I dont see someone who will do everything in his power to win, it seems like he's a going through the motions type of person. The Mond/Mills/Trask tier of QBs is going to be interesting, im okay with us taking a gamble on one of them, im also okay with stacking the roster. I'm just hoping we don't do the unthinkable and spend a 1st on one of them. 

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18 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I couldn't pass on Smith when he was still there, the value was way too good even though another WR isn't a massive need. I have this strange feeling he does fall though, just not all the way down to 19. 

I agree 100% on this. I like Smith a lot, especially for us. I think he drops out of the top ten until about 12-15.

 

I think he ends up being the 3rd WR taken after Chase and Waddle.

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12 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

I like Harris and there are some teams like Pittsburgh and Miami that should look at him in the 1st.  But the guy is already 23 and benefitted from being a grown ass man and surrounded by Alabama greatness.  He's going to be a solid RB for several years but he is not a build your offense around prospect like so many recent backs that have come out like Barkley, CMC, Elliott, etc.  He is not in that club and when you're not in the club, what's the point really? 

 

And Etienne is a notch or two lower than Harris as a prospect and super redundant to what we already have in Gibson.  I've felt he's been destined to become a Jet this whole time so via con dios over there...

 

I just don't understand how anyone can advocate RB for this team in the 1st.  We have a dynamic one already.  We have a very good scat back.  Just go to FA to upgrade the Barber role.  If it was a Barkley level prospect I'd get it, maybe, but its not even close.

 

I am not completely sold on our RBs.  Antonio Gibson has a long way to go to prove that he has the instincts of a complete running back, the others are primarily roll players.  But I would not even consider a running back in the first round, as you said the backs you mentioned this draft are not difference makers, similar backs can be found much later in the draft.  

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4 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I agree 100% on this. I like Smith a lot, especially for us. I think he drops out of the top ten until about 12-15.

 

I think he ends up being the 3rd WR taken after Chase and Waddle.

The Lions could really use him, but I'm guessing if they pass on him, his next chance is at 11 to the Giants or Eagles at 12. If he doesn't go to one of those teams, there's no telling where he goes. 

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6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I am not completely sold on our RBs.  Antonio Gibson has a long way to go to prove that he has the instincts of a complete running back, the others are primarily roll players.  But I would not even consider a running back in the first round, as you said the backs you mentioned this draft are not difference makers, similar backs can be found much later in the draft.  

 

Personally, I consider Javonte Williams a difference maker with a very high ceiling. He's only 20 and a tackle breaking machine. I'd take JW at the top of the 2nd round in an instant.

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36 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Personally, I consider Javonte Williams a difference maker with a very high ceiling. He's only 20 and a tackle breaking machine. I'd take JW at the top of the 2nd round in an instant.

 2nd round I can see, although I'd prefer they address other positions. But a RB at 19 is crazy talk IMO.  

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1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Perhaps uninspired wasn't the correct word to use as he can be exciting with the ball in his hand. Perhaps disillusioned lol. Any mock that has WFT taking Toney in the 1st, whether at 19 or later in a trade scenarion I don't like. I am just not that big of a fan of his and see so many other positions I would rather see filled. If they decided the take a WR at 19 for me it would need to be one of the big three that fell. If they went with one later in the 1st it would need to Bateman or maybe Marshall. I really would rather it be a T, LB or DB in the first.

 

Milne in the 6th, that would be a worthy pick. The WR depth is really incredible this year.

 

 

Milne is interesting as a late rounder.  A dude who I like a little more than Milne, he's a bigger faster version of a similar flavor player to Milne would be Seth Williams.  I like Milne's hands better though than Williams.  But I am more intrigued by Williams' tools and i don't have to wonder about his level of competition. 

 

Seth Williams is another dude hampered by crappy QB play. 

 

6"3, 211 pounds and ran 4.49.  He has one of the top wingspans among the receivers in this draft.  Played outside and slot.  X,Y, Z.  Big time YPC every season.

 

He's more of a physical receiver type who is good at high pointing the ball than a seperator.   YAC.  Makes some crazy catches.  Good run blocker.  He has too many drops though.  He can seperate at times though especially going deep.  He hits me as a poor man's Nico Collins.   Thinking about it more maybe Milne is more of a poor man's Dyami Brown.   

 

I like Williams' teammate more -- Anthony Schwartz.  Schwartz isn't a complete receiver, he's raw, not a dude that runs a whole variety of routes but the dude's speed is unreal and he can take it to the house.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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