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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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OT prospect that no one seems to be talking about... Jackson Carman. Guy can play. Has some injury history but should be on the second round radar.

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2 hours ago, mistertim said:

Matt Ryan isn't going anywhere. His new restructured deal gives ATL a $71 million dead cap hit for him this year. Oof. 

 

As far as Mills, I think it's purely the hype train at this point. I still think he'll be more of a 3rd rounder but I suppose it's possible that someone is enamored of certain traits and reaches for him in the 2nd. 1st would be silly.

Late 1st isnt silly for any QB. If you think he is a 2nd round talent you are better off taking him late in the 1st and getting that 5th year option on him. 

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2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Late 1st isnt silly for any QB. If you think he is a 2nd round talent you are better off taking him late in the 1st and getting that 5th year option on him. 

I actually disagree with this.

 

If you have him graded as a first round talent and it’s possible the league views him as a 2 I’d agree.

 

But if you see him as a 2 you can’t draft that guy in the first round. You’re passing on an actual first round talent on your board and the 5 year contract for a QB you feel isn’t a first rounder and has a fairly high bust rate.
 

If your first round talent board only has 20 names and you’re picking 24th and your board is empty you have to try to trade back to get additional assets.

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2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Late 1st isnt silly for any QB. If you think he is a 2nd round talent you are better off taking him late in the 1st and getting that 5th year option on him. 

Dan Marino went 27th back in the old days when there were only 28 teams.  If we had somehow managed to get that pick while retaining our own #28, the NFL would have renamed the Lombardi trophy after Joe Gibbs.  

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I actually disagree with this.

 

If you have him graded as a first round talent and it’s possible the league views him as a 2 I’d agree.

 

But if you see him as a 2 you can’t draft that guy in the first round. You’re passing on an actual first round talent on your board and the 5 year contract for a QB you feel isn’t a first rounder and has a fairly high bust rate.
 

If your first round talent board only has 20 names and you’re picking 24th and your board is empty you have to try to trade back to get additional assets.

It is about the cost of a QB. Imagine if we had the 5th year option on Cousins. The end result would have most likely been the same. But we would have had him for an additional year on a cheap price. That extra year is huge. It gives you the ability to lock a player down for 7 seasons when using the franchise tag. 

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1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

It is about the cost of a QB. Imagine if we had the 5th year option on Cousins. The end result would have most likely been the same. But we would have had him for an additional year on a cheap price. That extra year is huge. It gives you the ability to lock a player down for 7 seasons when using the franchise tag. 


If we had Cousins graded as a first and we took him there I’d be fine with that. 
 

Here’s the thing though... the fifth year helps you anywhere. Yes, QB is most expensive so it has a bigger impact than any other position. However, a fifth year contract on a tackle, end, RB, receiver, etc., gives you more FA money to spend on, say, a free agent QB or trade QB. 
 

Drafting a guy in the first JUST because of a fifth year is craziness. But again, context matters.

 

If I had Davis Mills as the best QB in the draft I’d draft him in the first round. I don’t, so I wouldn’t. But if I did I would. Zero hesitation.   
But if I had Mills as my 102nd guy on my board but he was the best QB available I wouldn’t take him.

 

Running with context again... if I have a QB rates #33 overall and I’m picking 28th and my board has my #6 guy and my #33 guy I have to think about positional value there. But probably go with #6. If the best guy left on my board is #26 and the QB is 33 I go QB.

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7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

It is about the cost of a QB. Imagine if we had the 5th year option on Cousins. The end result would have most likely been the same. But we would have had him for an additional year on a cheap price. That extra year is huge. It gives you the ability to lock a player down for 7 seasons when using the franchise tag. 

Locking down Capt Kurt for 7 years leaves me cold.  It would've been better to get rid of Bruce Allen.  Accountants and capologists shouldn't run the team.  Of all positions, i'm not sure i'd want my QB playing on a first, let alone 2nd, tag.  Sure screams motivation to win a Lombardi.

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3 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Locking down Capt Kurt for 7 years leaves me cold.  It would've been better to get rid of Bruce Allen.  Accountants and capologists shouldn't run the team.  Of all positions, i'm not sure i'd want my QB playing on a first, let alone 2nd, tag.  Sure screams motivation to win a Lombardi.

It’s honestly one of the biggest mistakes this franchise ever made. 
 

They would have been better off letting him go or trading him if they weren’t sold on him. By the end he was still being professional and obviously putting in effort but you could tell he was soured on the Washington experience and wanted out by his body language. 
 

Get a deal done or move on. 

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3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It’s honestly one of the biggest mistakes this franchise ever made. 
 

They would have been better off letting him go or trading him if they weren’t sold on him. By the end he was still being professional and obviously putting in effort but you could tell he was soured on the Washington experience and wanted out by his body language. 
 

Get a deal done or move on. 

 

I took more arrows for this position than any take I've had on the board, the Kirk discusion got really heated and emotional. My main point at the time was how Bruce absolutely blew the situation.  Jay recounting some more of the behind the scene inside happenings recently brought it home some more.  Lol, maybe its something about the 2012 QB class.  The two I think all time heated threads was the RG3 one and then Kirk.  

 

Then the Trent thing rubbed salt on the wounds and was almost as bad.  Watching Miami rip off the Texans and turning that trade into a kings ransom to rebuild their roster -- that could have been us.  We wouldn't have gotten the same haul but we clearly gotten a much bigger haul than we ended up getting.

 

giphy.gif

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

I've ask you this before but think you've missed it with all the notifications you get. :)  Straight up, do you think we are drafting a QB this year in whatever round?

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I took more arrows for this position than any take I've had on the board, the Kirk discusion got really heated and emotional. My main point at the time was how Bruce absolutely blew the situation.  Jay recounting some more of the behind the scene inside happenings recently brought it home some more.  Lol, maybe its something about the 2012 QB class.  The two I think all time heated threads was the RG3 one and then Kirk.  

 

Then the Trent thing rubbed salt on the wounds and was almost as bad.  Watching Miami rip off the Texans and turning that trade into a kings ransom to rebuild their roster -- that could have been us.  We wouldn't have gotten the same haul but we clearly gotten a much bigger haul than we ended up getting.

 

giphy.gif

 

 

 


I don’t care that they moved on from Kirk. I don’t even care that they went and got Alex (and while I loved the fact we got Smith I was never really thrilled with the overall trade and cap cost to get him, but I loved the Smith get). 
 

It was franchise tagging the guy twice. First time was questionable. Second time was unfathomable because it was clear as day he didn’t want to be in Washington anymore. At that point if you tag him a second time it better be because you have a trade worked out to get compensation back for him.

 

But... we didn’t. And then he dropped the ball on Trent Williams

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I took more arrows for this position than any take I've had on the board, the Kirk discusion got really heated and emotional. My main point at the time was how Bruce absolutely blew the situation.  Jay recounting some more of the behind the scene inside happenings recently brought it home some more.  Lol, maybe its something about the 2012 QB class.  The two I think all time heated threads was the RG3 one and then Kirk.  

 

Then the Trent thing rubbed salt on the wounds and was almost as bad.  Watching Miami rip off the Texans and turning that trade into a kings ransom to rebuild their roster -- that could have been us.  We wouldn't have gotten the same haul but we clearly gotten a much bigger haul than we ended up getting.

 

giphy.gif

 

 

 

LOL.  Love it.  Serenity now.  LOL.  I'll take "Answer that question" for $1000 dollars, Alex.  We're moving on.  

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47 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Late 1st isnt silly for any QB. If you think he is a 2nd round talent you are better off taking him late in the 1st and getting that 5th year option on him. 

 

I was talking about Mills specifically. A 1st round pick for a guy with such limited experience, mediocre numbers, an injury history, and pretty glaring on-and-off decision making is nonsensical to me.

 

The Mills stuff is nothing but a hype train. His main selling points are that he was a top recruit out of HS and plays in a pro style system. That's about it. He doesn't have crazy athleticism, a crazy arm, or anything else. There's really nothing that's elite about him which would usually push a super inexperienced guy up into the 1st round.

Edited by mistertim
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1 minute ago, duffy said:

WFT fans on bleacher report's community mock draft have just made their decision...

 

Screenshot_20210416-121245_Bleacher Report.jpg

The way that board shakes out isn’t very friendly to us. 
 

JOK is a great talent but... he doesn’t help our run D getting gashed inside. So either our current dudes need to step up and improve or we’re going to be in for more heart breaking rushing games against us. 
 

He absolutely helps  in coverage and allows us to stay “base” more often personnel wise. And he’s a talent. I know people think I’m down on him but I’m not. I like him quite a bit he’s just not a dude I think fits us great.

 

There is a lot of value there and the way the board shakes out on this it would be hard to pass. I’d try my best to trade back from there.

 

Other considerations: Zaven, Jamin, Moehrig, Surtain (but he’s smaller). 

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14 minutes ago, KDawg said:


I don’t care that they moved on from Kirk. I don’t even care that they went and got Alex (and while I loved the fact we got Smith I was never really thrilled with the overall trade and cap cost to get him, but I loved the Smith get). 
 

It was franchise tagging the guy twice. First time was questionable. Second time was unfathomable because it was clear as day he didn’t want to be in Washington anymore. At that point if you tag him a second time it better be because you have a trade worked out to get compensation back for him.

 

But... we didn’t. And then he dropped the ball on Trent Williams

 

My main issue was how Bruce handled the contract.  Sounds funny now but Bruce had some fierce defenders and they didn't care for criticism leveled at him whether it was from me or others.  Cerrato in his day had some defenders too so I guess it came with the turf.

 

I think the Alex Smith deal was lousy considering the state of the team at the time and the contract extension added to the pile considering his age.  The irony of it was how they played hardball with Kirk on the years of guaranteed money -- which they threw out the window for Alex.  Seemed like Bruce wanted to throw it in Kirk's face that hey we won't give you more than two years of guaranteed money but we will give Alex 4 years of guaranteed and we are still paying off his contract this year.  Alex is a nice story.  But as a trade/contract, I'd give it an F. 

 

The Trent situation also seemed to be driven by spite/revenge from Bruce.  That seemed more important that winning.  

 

I didn't realize the Eagles ownership situation is such a joke until recently.  But at least the Eagles know how to get assets for their players.  they are good at that.  This team stinks at it.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The way that board shakes out isn’t very friendly to us. 
 

JOK is a great talent but... he doesn’t help our run D getting gashed inside. So either our current dudes need to step up and improve or we’re going to be in for more heart breaking rushing games against us. 
 

He absolutely helps  in coverage and allows us to stay “base” more often personnel wise. And he’s a talent. I know people think I’m down on him but I’m not. I like him quite a bit he’s just not a dude I think fits us great.

 

There is a lot of value there and the way the board shakes out on this it would be hard to pass. I’d try my best to trade back from there.

 

Other considerations: Zaven, Jamin, Moehrig, Surtain (but he’s smaller). 

I know you aren't down on JOK but I find it hard to believe that the difference between Zaven/Jamin and JOK is us getting gashed and not us not getting gashed. If we are getting gashed, we will get get gashed with any of these guys as our LBers. I guess what I'm trying to say is, one guy isn't going to significantly move the needle like that, whoever we choose will more than likely inch us towards being slightly better against the run or slightly better against the pass. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

If I had to guess right now Darrisaw is the player they can move up for at a minimal price compared to moving up for Lance, Fields etc. (QB).  I really like JOK at #19 if Darrisaw isn't there.  I don't think moving back nets us much with where we are in the draft and how much we would have to move back to really net a nice gain.  Just my guess.  

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

OT prospect that no one seems to be talking about... Jackson Carman. Guy can play. Has some injury history but should be on the second round radar.

 

Haven't watched him, so not talking about how I think of him as a prospect.

 

He's got some flags.  Medicals and managing his weight.  Supposedly 2020 was the first season he had his weight under control?  Dane Brugler has him at Guard.  Lance Zeirlein also has him at Guard.

 

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16 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I know you aren't down on JOK but I find it hard to believe that the difference between Zaven/Jamin and JOK is us getting gashed and not us not getting gashed. If we are getting gashed, we will get get gashed with any of these guys as our LBers. I guess what I'm trying to say is, one guy isn't going to significantly move the needle like that, whoever we choose will more than likely inch us towards being slightly better against the run or slightly better against the pass. 


JOK isn’t an inside linebacker. I don’t know how else to explain it. We got gashed inside because our inside backers don’t play downhill and aggressive in the run game. 
 

If JOK were in the game and were in our 4-2 (our base formation for all intents and purposes) then he’s detached from the box and over a #2 receiver or more in space.

 

If you put him inside it literally negates the reason to draft him. 
 

 

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11 minutes ago, KDawg said:


JOK isn’t an inside linebacker. I don’t know how else to explain it. We got gashed inside because our inside backers don’t play downhill and aggressive in the run game. 
 

If JOK were in the game and were in our 4-2 (our base formation for all intents and purposes) then he’s detached from the box and over a #2 receiver or more in space.

 

If you put him inside it literally negates the reason to draft him. 
 

 

You keep talking about inside linebacker, but who is our WLB right now? We don't really have one, unless you consider Khaleke Hudson as the answer. We have zero LBers that can cover. Zero. 

 

Edit: Even when we drop to two LBers, I think it makes more sense to have a more athletic guy operating in all that extra space, even if he's smaller. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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1 minute ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

You keep talking about inside linebacker, but who is our WLB right now? 


What does that have to do with the 4-2? I think there’s a fundamental disconnect on what the 4-2 even is and that causes a lot of confusion.

 

The 4-2 doesn’t use a MIKE, SAM or WILL in a traditional sense. It may use those terms. It may even have the inside backers switching sides or the SAM/WILL as a nickel back. 
 

But the MIKE isn’t a true MIKE in a 4-2. He’s simply an inside linebacker. And there’s two of them. 
 

Guys who need to be able to cover a touch but moreso need to be able to get downhill and play the run or you’re going to get gashed. 
 

Holcomb is a better coverage backer than a run stopper. In fact, his run defense has been somewhat poor because he doesn’t attack. He tackles well so he does limit gains but he isn’t meeting the offense at the POA. 
 

We don’t have a single guy that does that. And it’s a big reason our run D hasn’t been good enough.

 

Hence why I keep saying we need INSIDE BACKERS.

 

Its our biggest need.

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7 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

You keep talking about inside linebacker, but who is our WLB right now? We don't really have one, unless you consider Khaleke Hudson as the answer. We have zero LBers that can cover. Zero. 

 

He might not have been asked to cover a bunch last season, but just to throw it out there Holcomb had a PFF grade of 73 in coverage. That's pretty good.

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