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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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Just a spectator in the draft conversation.

After hearing about how WFT could be the next team to unload all their picks, I had to look.

Honestly I believe that's BS smokescreen gamesmanship.  I can see them taking BPA at the OT/LB position at #19. 

Then I could envision a trade up to the #30-32 spots to get a guy like Kellen Mond just so they have that 5th yr. option down the road. 

They can fill the other needs with the two 3rd rounders.

The whole Trey Lance stuff is crap. 

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16 minutes ago, method man said:


You guys keep glossing over the fact that @86 Snyder has suggested that they go sign a back on the cheap over drafting Najee. Signing Alfred Morris on the minimum as a backup for Gibson and to compete with Lamar Miller is a better option vs drafting Najee

 

There is also always a trade partner for the #19 pick in the draft. The question is what are you willing to take back. My bar for the return is lower in this draft than most drafts of it means multiple rd 2 and rd 3 picks. A number of rd 2 guys in this draft will become Pro Bowlers or longtime starters at the minimum

 

 

Exactly.  Todd Gurley, Frank Gore, Adrian Peterson, and Rex Burkhead are still waiting for jobs.  All would be big upgrades over Barber.  If injuries crop up, you deal with it plug and play style.  Gurley is actually super intriguing; no one is giving him much money and he can only handle 5-10 carries a game anyway.  He might actually be my first choice if you can get him for say 2-3 million.  Who's giving him more than that?

 

ETA Damien Williams, LeSean McCoy, Leveon Bell, James Connor...the list goes on and on.  You cannot convince me adding Najee instead of a LT/LB plus one of those guys improves the team more when you already have a dynamic guy like Antonio Gibson already on the roster.

Edited by 86 Snyder
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2 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

Gibson and McKissic are more than enough to keep the running game afloat.

"That Washington running game is really been afloat these last few games"

 

That is an offense that comes on the field and has plays.

 

Your take is silly. A stout running game helps the defense stay fresh, gets you into the fourth Q with the upper hand. It helps a young QB which we will have next year and it ensures that our offense doesn't have pitfalls due to injuries. Gibson IMO can become pretty special, but not if he keeps getting injured because we run him like a mule. That's not his job.

 

Harris is like adding a young Henry to this team. 

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1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

"That Washington running game is really been afloat these last few games"

 

That is an offense that comes on the field and has plays.

 

Your take is silly. A stout running game helps the defense stay fresh, gets you into the fourth Q with the upper hand. It helps a young QB which we will have next year and it ensures that our offense doesn't have pitfalls due to injuries. Gibson IMO can become pretty special, but not if he keeps getting injured because we run him like a mule. That's not his job.

 

Harris is like adding a young Henry to this team. 

 

Yeah you don't understand my take then.

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Just now, 86 Snyder said:

 

Yeah you don't understand my take then.

Harris is not just a RB, he's special and will probably be the best talent at 19. He's the BPA.

 

I want Collins and Moehrig along with Harris as my top 3 fwiw.

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2 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

You don't need Najee Harris to do that.  And if you draft Etienne or any other RB not named Najee in this class, you still can't do it anyway.

 

Gibson and McKissic are more than enough to keep the running game afloat.  Id be combing the veteran market for a Barber upgrade. Mark Ingram for instance would have been a very good fit.  Feed Gibson.  Get me a LT or LB in the 1st.  The only thing worse than taking a RB at 19 would be getting another Guard.

I mean, I get it, LT or LB is what I want as well but if Teven Jenkins and Zaven Collins are the best available at 19? Ehh, I'd rather just draft Harris or a similar type  talent or trade back. Those guys are late 1st round talents IMO, Harris is a mid-1st talent to me. There are certain scenarios that would make Harris BPA, it really wouldn't upset me. 

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1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Harris is not just a RB, he's special and will probably be the best talent at 19. He's the BPA.

 

I want Collins and Moehrig along with Harris as my top 3 fwiw.

 

Even if I grant you that he's special (and he's not, he profiles as a very good not amazing guy that will not earn a big 2nd contract which is the yardstick) we already have a special talent in Gibson and it would be redundant to take him.  Redundancy at say, Defensive End, is a good thing.  Redundancy at running back is a waste of resources.

 

Gibson is not in the mold of Elliott or Henry.  You want him at 15 carries and another 3 or 4 targets per game.  And McKissick is good for a handful of carries and 5 or so targets.  That leaves 5-10 carries for someone.  We can't afford to buy a Porsche to drive to the grocery store on Sunday.  We're not going to be running the ball 40 times a game.

2 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I mean, I get it, LT or LB is what I want as well but if Teven Jenkins and Zaven Collins are the best available at 19? Ehh, I'd rather just draft Harris or a similar type  talent or trade back. Those guys are late 1st round talents IMO, Harris is a mid-1st talent to me. There are certain scenarios that would make Harris BPA, it really wouldn't upset me. 

 

Easy, that's a trade down.  I don't have a well enough informed opinion on those specific players to say whether they are worth 19.  But if you're iffy, trade down.  Amd I know you need a partner but if you're not expecting an overpay it can generally be done.

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32 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Without a doubt, it is a need.  McKissic is exactly as you described and his role is pretty clear.  We very much need a reliable 3rd back.  We definitely don't need that to be a highly leveraged acquisition though.  Guys like Jamal Williams, Carlos Hyde or Mark Ingram would have filled the duties just fine.  Or take a look at someone like Trey Sermon if he slips into the 4th round or later.  I'm just saying, this is not a position that requires and exotic remedy.  That's not meant to downplay its importance, just trying to accurately label it.  You don't have to pay through the nose for a grinder that can take 5-10 carries a game with some short yardage duties mixed in.  And just to be clear where I stand on Barber...he stinks.  Good blocker.  Otherwise terrible.

 

It really comes down to roster construction.  Spending the 19th pick on a RB or the 5th pick and 2 franchise tags on a Guard are the worst ways to build a team because you're allocating very valuable assets on the most interchangeable and least valuable positions in the game.  If you're going to dedicate those kinds of resources they better be for elite talents like Saquon and Quentin Nelson, not merely very good talents like Scherff and Najee.

 

I like Najee.  He's going to be a good RB and sort of a Henry-lite.  A team like Pittsburgh should be looking at him very closely and if I'm a Steelers fan I got no problem spending 24 on him.  He just doesn't fit our situation right now with any reasonability.

I get that logic dictates to get the most rare and expensive pieces of your team in the first round, but lets not go overboard here. The drop-off in talent after Najee and Etienne is significant. For that matter, the drop off after Najee. As long as we're not picking a P, K or LS, why should you care which shape your unicorn comes in.

We already know that our FO is going to key in on BPA if their situational formulae don't pan out, but you can't get tunnel-vision in this rich draft. You can certainly fill all our holes starting with #19 Harris, as you could with #19 Darrisaw, or #19 Moehrig, etc.

And as far as taking a guard at #19, though it's not my cup-o-tea, I won't straight up lose-it. I think Die Hard might, lol. But Scherff has solidified the right side of our line for years, helping to make Moses better. I've never bit**** about that.
 

You can mock this draft many ways, and according to our team needs, our FO would have to be inept not to come out of this with all our needs met. But we're not inept anymore. 

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I don’t mind taking an elite guard prospect beginning in the middle of the first round. And that’s the only level (elite) of guard prospect I draft in first round. I’m not just looking for starters, I’m talking All Pro potential. Same with C’s or RT’s. 
 

You don’t take them top 5 though (Scherff). 

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I really can't wait to see RR and Co. in action. There are a few players mocked to us at 19 that I would not be comfortable taking, and in this draft OG would be one. I have been moving back in most mocks lately, and have struck gold like 86 Snyder has been advocating. Here's one:
46. Radunz OT
53. Cox LB
74. Minerz OC
82. Jordan TE
111. Atwell WR
120. Thomas CB

124. Stevenson RB
126. Fields II LB

158. Deablo S
163. Newman QB
190. Newsome WR
+ 2022 NE 2nd

+2022 NE 3rd

That's 11players covering all team needs plus a bit of juice for next year if Newman doesn't show promise.

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4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

From Rhiannon Walker, it sounds like anybody the team might want to vet.  Character concerns, work ethic issues, etc are likely off the board.  Rivera & Co don't like not being in a room with a prospect and asking questions face to face. 

 

Rhiannon mentions these are things that seem to worry the team the most:

- Linebacker

- 2nd TE

- Safety

- OL Depth

- CB Depth

 

Positions like WR are unlikely unless the draft goes weird and the guy is clearly BPA.

 

Walker is an outlier compared to Keim and Standig (who IMO are typically much more plugged in) with her not mentioning LT in the mix.  Keim and Standig both have mentioned LT is hot for them and both mentioned 1st round could be where it happens at that spot.

 

Maybe Walker just overlooked it when she responded to that Q & A question considering she said this in another question.   Unless her point is that aren't per se "worried" about Lucas but want to upgrade the spot regardless. 

 

 

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Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 hours ago, TheShredder said:

I could envision a trade up to the #30-32 spots to get a guy like Kellen Mond just so they have that 5th yr. option down the road. 

 

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On the other hand reg. Parsons you could argue that if our culture/locker room is strong enough they can take on a guy like Parsons. Randy Moss was seen as a problem child too when the Vikings took him, but they had guys like Cris Carter and Randall Cunningham leading that team and Dennis Green was always good at handling personalities.

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13 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

Just catching up and lord have mercy, yall really still advocating a runningback at 19??  I respect @KDawg and @Skinsinparadise opinions a ton but you're way way off on this one.  And seems @stevemcqueen1 is on board with Etienne which is just embarrasing.

 

Adding an expensive RB when we have glaring holes at LT, MLB, FS, and TE would be malpractice.  Just upgrade the Barber role and move on.  

 

Thanks.  But yeah I think there is no chance they draft Harris.  I am pushing a LT hard.  If its purely about pushing a position I am obnoxiously loud for LT.   I'd even go Tevin Jenkins before going with the best LB, WR, etc. 

 

So its not about wanting a RB as to that being my top position want.  It's far from the case.  It's specifically about Najee Harris who IMO is Derrick Henry Part 2.  He I think will be a rock star in the NFL.  I thought the Giants overdrafted Barkley at #2 years back but if they took him at 19, or even in the low teens I think it would have been a good pick.  Taking a Derrick Henry clone at 19 isn't a reach IMO. 

 

But if we are purely talking position, I am LT, LT, LT, LT. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Walker is an outlier compared to Keim and Standig (who IMO are typically much more plugged in) with her not mentioning LT in the mix.  Keim and Standig both have mentioned LT is hot for them and both mentioned 1st round could be where it happens at that spot.

 

Maybe Walker just overlooked it when she responded to that Q & A question considering she said this in another question.   Unless her point is that aren't per se "worried" about Lucas but want to upgrade the spot regardless. 

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-04-10 at 10.40.42 PM.png

I like this about RR.  Accountability!  Go Ron!  I so hope Darrisaw is available and the pick at #19.  

14 minutes ago, duffy said:

 

PlushPowerfulBlackfly-size_restricted.gif

Boy I bet he feels better.  

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks.  But yeah I think there is no chance they draft Harris.  I am pushing a LT hard.  If its purely about pushing a position I am obnoxiously loud for LT.   I'd even go Tevin Jenkins before going with the best LB, WR, etc. 

 

So its not about wanting a RB as to that being my top position want.  It's far from the case.  It's specifically about Najee Harris who IMO is Derrick Henry Part 2.  He I think will be a rock star in the NFL.  I thought the Giants overdrafted Barkley at #2 years back but if they took him at 19, or even in the low teens I think it would have been a good pick.  Taking Henry at 19 isn't a reach IMO. 

 

But if we are purely talking position, I am LT, LT, LT, LT. 

RR would still be wise to scoop up the Pittsburgh FA LT now on a 2 year deal so we can have that area covered in case the LT or LTs we are targeting in the 1st are gone.  IF we are able to draft one (Darrisaw) play him at RT for a year then move him over to LT in 2022.  

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I’m definitely torn about the idea of drafting Najee (or really rbs in general) in the 1st.  For our team specifically though, we’re probably screwed if Gibson goes down, could use a big upgrade from Barber, need a replacement for McKissick next year, it would be nice to be able to use Gibson as more of a weapon than a bell cow back.  I think Turner would love the added versatility it would give him to attack defenses - Gibson could hone in more on the passing side of the offense, and our 2 back sets would open up new possibilities.  

On the other hand, we don’t run the ball a ton, have more important needs, and financially speaking, picking a 1st round back makes less sense than other positions.  Also a lot cheaper to find a decent backup in FA.

 

It would be like opening up a pint of ice cream at midnight.  Short term, I’m excited, even if I know it’s probably not the best idea for my long term prospects.  Would it be that bad for me though?  Probably not, especially if I’m making smart decisions elsewhere...

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Walker is an outlier compared to Keim and Standig (who IMO are typically much more plugged in) with her not mentioning LT in the mix.  Keim and Standig both have mentioned LT is hot for them and both mentioned 1st round could be where it happens at that spot.

 

Maybe Walker just overlooked it when she responded to that Q & A question considering she said this in another question.   Unless her point is that aren't per se "worried" about Lucas but want to upgrade the spot regardless. 

 

 

 

I'm guessing there's a typo somewhere.  Possibly instead of OL depth she meant IOL depth?  With Center looking good, it's gotta be Guard depth.  Charles injury history, Scherff's a lock to miss a few games and a fairly good chance he walks in free agency in 2022.  We all know what Wes Martin looked like in spot duty last season.  Maybe Wes Martin gets it together this off-season, cause last training camp and regular season was about as big of a wake-up call as someone can possibly get.

 

If we're trying to be overly technical, drafting a LT in the 1st improves OL depth by shifting Lucas back to swing tackle.  Mission accomplished by accident?

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8 hours ago, TheShredder said:

 

The whole Trey Lance stuff is crap


I would think his second pro day outing will clarify that situation. If he has a great showing, someone will be jumping to #4 pretty quickly soon after in my opinion, the caveat still being the question mark against the 49ers picking #3. 

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7 hours ago, RWJ said:

I like this about RR.  Accountability!  Go Ron!  I so hope Darrisaw is available and the pick at #19.  

Boy I bet he feels better.  

RR would still be wise to scoop up the Pittsburgh FA LT now on a 2 year deal so we can have that area covered in case the LT or LTs we are targeting in the 1st are gone.  IF we are able to draft one (Darrisaw) play him at RT for a year then move him over to LT in 2022.  

 

I think the idea is the Pittsburgh LT FA is the backup idea if they don't land a LT in the draft.  I get the impression its almost slam dunk they land a LT in this draft with the only thing getting in the way maybe is trading picks to go up to get a QB.    

4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I'm guessing there's a typo somewhere.  Possibly instead of OL depth she meant IOL depth?  With Center looking good, it's gotta be Guard depth.  Charles injury history, Scherff's a lock to miss a few games and a fairly good chance he walks in free agency in 2022.  We all know what Wes Martin looked like in spot duty last season.  Maybe Wes Martin gets it together this off-season, cause last training camp and regular season was about as big of a wake-up call as someone can possibly get.

 

If we're trying to be overly technical, drafting a LT in the 1st improves OL depth by shifting Lucas back to swing tackle.  Mission accomplished by accident?

 

Could be.  Or maybe she meant her point that those positions are what they are scared about with their current roster if they played today and playing Lucas doesn't scare them even though upgrading over him or finding a young solution is a top prioirity. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Kadarius Toney was one of my favorite receivers during the college season, I probably commenting on him as much as anyone during that time.  But he became so cool with NFL mock drafters and they so overrated him that he became uncool and its fashionable to slam him for being overrated.  IMO he is overrated.  And all the buzz of him being the slam dunk #5 receiver in this draft (leapfrogged now it seems by Bateman, Elijah Moore, T. Marsall) and that he will go around the mid teens/early 20s was over the top for him IMO.  But that doesn't mean he isn't good. 

 

If he slips to pick 51.  Don't know if he will or not, he'd be among the guys i like.  I think I'd still likely prefer a TE at that spot:  Jordan or Freiermuth.  And i know some disagree with me on Tremble but I wouldn't hate him in the late 2nd either if they don't feel that he will be there in the third.  But I suspect he might be there in the third. 

 

I am keeping Toney on my radar in part because I know he's a player they've spoken to.  And on occasion a beat reporter will mention him so maybe there is a reason for it.  

 

IMO he is just as sick with the ball in his hands as Rondale Moore.  He's like a video game when it comes to YAC.  He's not a polished receiver but has good hands.   The two WRs I've been really high that I consider being my guys:  Elijah Moore and Terrace Marshall I think might be out of reach at 51.  But Rondale Moore and Toney ironically could be there.  The shift in mocks could be meaningless BS but I've noticed Elijah and Terrace are in the late first in many mocks now.  Rondale and Toney are now often in the 2nd.  Months back it was the reverse. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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There is no shortage of sleeper type WR's in this class to choose from, but I am curious as to why Jacob Harris's teammate Trey Nixon is not generating much noise. I think Trey Nixon would be a nice addition too.

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Talk about us trading up for a QB ist heating up. Even though he is just speculating, he's ususally pretty plugged in so has probably heard some things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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If we trade up for Lance and give up picks this and next year I’d want to hold on to at least 2 of our 2-3-3-4 so that we can grab an OT and TE to round things out. Hit LB in FA after the draft. 
 

id imagine a 19 to 4 would be 1+2+ 2022 1 and 2023 1? Idk tho

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