2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[skinny21]

50 minutes ago, mudhog said:

Thanks skinny. I know CB is a need for us, and I've seen Surtain and Farley, as top CBs, as high as pick 6. I have also seen Pitt fall as far as 18. 

As far as FA QBs that I would feel comfortable with as short-term/non-franchise starters, there are only two: Fitz and Trubiski. 

HaHaHa, Just got your comment "if they like Lance a lot"
I'm on a roll now.

I wouldn’t be against a high talent corner, personally.  I actually don’t know if the FO would look past Surtain there - I’m not sure how much stock I put into how things were done in Carolina.  RR is the man now and with Del Rio at the helm of the defense, it’s possible that history isn’t a valid trend.  We also have very little depth with Moreau walking, and they might not get the caliber of corner they want in FA.  Basically, I have no idea what they’ll do, haha.  

 

AVT could conceivably be a ‘bad’ choice for us, in terms of value, if Charles is primed to take over at LG and assuming we re-sign Scherff.  I mean, 3 good guards is a good problem to have, but probably doesn’t improve as much.

 

I now really want to draft Lance though so I can say I like ‘Lance-a-lot’ all the time.  

 

I think Fitz is a smart choice for us, but I’ll leave it at that as we have a thread for that.

Edited March 7, 2021 by skinny21

[duffy]

6 hours ago, mudhog said:

Another question I have is about some of the mocks I've seen. Lets say we haven't found our QB in free agency by the time the draft starts. And, lets say that we are on the clock at #19 and we have a choice between Najee Harris, Trey Lance, Patrick Surtain and AVT(because Darrisaw is gone. Who do you pick? And why?

If you forced me to pick, and assuming Lance checks all the boxes, I think it'd be wise to grab him there. I like Harris and Surtain more, and AVT is likely the safest, but I think it would be smart to grab a potential franchise QB since we can't honestly say that Heineke or Allen are the future at this point. 

 

That being said, if those players are available at 19, I think someone will offer something good for that selection and I'd be more interested in accumulating additional picks. 

[DWinzit]

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

I know! Not that one outlier mock had it this way; I've seen a few like this. Also, I forgot to add that Mac Jones and Kiddarius Toney were slated for 2nd rounders. Which is kinda weird because I just read a mock from ESPN that had us moving up to #14 to take Toney. I know Najee is a luxury pick, but damm that dude is talented.

Wait, now you are adding Mac and Toney to my options? lol

I would not take Toney at 19.

The first choice will still go QB and probably Lance based on potential and athletic ability. Which one is Rivera the most comfortable with is what matters though as he could see Mac as safe and able start early,

[mudhog]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Wait, now you are adding Mac and Toney to my options? lol

I would not take Toney at 19.

The first choice will still go QB and probably Lance based on potential and athletic ability. Which one is Rivera the most comfortable with is what matters though as he could see Mac as safe and able start early,

Yes, Sorry. Mac and Toney are still available in these scenarios, along with Trask, AVT, Surtain and Najee. But Darrisaw is gone by 19.

 

[Chump Bailey]

LB Jordan Fox Stanford is an interesting player to me. He appears headed to UDFA status but much like Mykal Walker last season, I see a good football player seemingly being ignored. Fox can rush the passer and cover very well from what I can discern. He may be better suited as a WILL though.

[Dexter]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:52 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

Eric Stokes said his first 40 time was in the 4.5s at the beginning of his training this off-season.  There is no way he got from there to 4.24 without some kind of help from PEDs.

No he's legit....he ran 10.39 in the 100 as a high schooler.  I saw LaShawn Merrit run 10.38 in high school and he's an Olympic Gold medalist.  Stokes has some wheels, but he doesn't look like 4.24 on the field.  But he does have really good short area quickness, I just don't see that long speed that his times indicate.

[DWinzit]

14 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

LB Jordan Fox Stanford is an interesting player to me. He appears headed to UDFA status but much like Mykal Walker last season, I see a good football player seemingly being ignored. Fox can rush the passer and cover very well from what I can discern. He may be better suited as a WILL though.

For a team needing lots of new blood at all backer positions, there are a number of these type guys that could become depth or starting upgrades. I am certain the ones capable of playing ST will also be essential, improving teams. 

The big trick will be a 3 down leader in the middle to make the calls. #1 roster hole is not a hole but manned by Bostic

Can't wait to see who they bring in via FA and draft

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Wait, now you are adding Mac and Toney to my options? lol

I would not take Toney at 19.

The first choice will still go QB and probably Lance based on potential and athletic ability. Which one is Rivera the most comfortable with is what matters though as he could see Mac as safe and able start early,

 

I actually don't really see Mac as a Rivera QB. IIRC Rivera has said that a couple of the major things that he looks for in a young QB is leadership ability and physical traits. I'm sure Jones has leadership ability, but he's sorely lacking in physical traits.

 

I could be completely wrong, and we do go for Mac due to his high floor. But I feel like Rivera and probably Turner both want a guy who has the athletic ability to move a lot and make off schedule plays and who can sling it.

[DWinzit]

19 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I actually don't really see Mac as a Rivera QB. IIRC Rivera has said that a couple of the major things that he looks for in a young QB is leadership ability and physical traits. I'm sure Jones has leadership ability, but he's sorely lacking in physical traits.

 

I could be completely wrong, and we do go for Mac due to his high floor. But I feel like Rivera and probably Turner both want a guy who has the athletic ability to move a lot and make off schedule plays and who can sling it.

I feel very comfortable with this Lance vs Mac conversation because it has both of them available at 19. Mocks in November and December mostly had that occurring. 

I am not a fan for moving into the top 10 for either of these guys. At 19 I would take Lance.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Dexter said:

No he's legit....he ran 10.39 in the 100 as a high schooler.  I saw LaShawn Merrit run 10.38 in high school and he's an Olympic Gold medalist.  Stokes has some wheels, but he doesn't look like 4.24 on the field.  But he does have really good short area quickness, I just don't see that long speed that his times indicate.

 

I don't understand how you get from an average time like a 4.5 to Deion in a matter of weeks.  Something about that run is screwy.  Maybe it's the surface or the wind or something.

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't understand how you get from an average time like a 4.5 to Deion in a matter of weeks.  Something about that run is screwy.  Maybe it's the surface or the wind or something.

 

Yeah, I think the 40 times need to be taken with a huge grain of salt of every prospect.  

[Riggo#44]

Combine/Pro Day work outs lead to the biggest mistakes. Everyone runs well/looks good in shorts, and that can overshadow what's on tape, even though Tom Brady is the GOAT and looked like a HS equipment manager and was limited athletically like Mac Jones.

[clskinsfan]

Yeah. I would take this one in a heartbeat:

[kingdaddy]

21 hours ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

If he is a top 5 talent and you wouldn’t draft him with a top 5-10 pick then why would you draft him with the 19th pick? The reasons why you wouldn’t draft him at 5 don’t magically go away at 19?

 

Imo, the player is either on the draft board or not for the first 4 rounds. Starting in round 5-6 is where you might think about taking character issues guys...just in case they can be fixed.

One reason is that there are likely other top 10 talented players who also fill a need for any given team. 

[Riggo#44]

After Guice and RGIII, where there were reports of character issues, I would be very leery of players like Wilson and Parsons. 

[Chump Bailey]

16 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Yeah. I would take this one in a heartbeat:

 

I'd tongue kiss Larry Michael for that draft.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Yeah. I would take this one in a heartbeat:

 

This would be amazing, but there's absolutely no way in hell it would only cost our 2022 1st to move from 19 to 5. None. It would be at least our 2nd this year and our 1st next year...and that's without a bunch of competition to move up to that spot.

 

58 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

After Guice and RGIII, where there were reports of character issues, I would be very leery of players like Wilson and Parsons. 

 

Did Guice and RGIII really have reports of "character issues" though? From my recollection, they were both seen as hard working guys with big personalities but nothing "bad" or any off field incidents or them being in any real trouble, legal or otherwise. There are plenty of successful NFL players who have big personalities and do fine. Unfortunately with Guice and RGIII they both ended up having other issues down the road. 

[Ball Security]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This would be amazing, but there's absolutely no way in hell it would only cost our 2022 1st to move from 19 to 5. None. It would be at least our 2nd this year and our 1st next year...and that's without a bunch of competition to move up to that spot.

 

 

Did Guice and RGIII really have reports of "character issues" though? From my recollection, they were both seen as hard working guys with big personalities but nothing "bad" or any off field incidents or them being in any real trouble, legal or otherwise. There are plenty of successful NFL players who have big personalities and do fine. Unfortunately with Guice and RGIII they both ended up having other issues down the road. 

Guice did.  That’s why dropped.  An Eagles person said he was undraftable.  Probably had good intel on what coach O and LSU were suppressing.

[TheGoodBits]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

 

 

Did Guice and RGIII really have reports of "character issues" though? From my recollection, they were both seen as hard working guys with big personalities but nothing "bad" or any off field incidents or them being in any real trouble, legal or otherwise. There are plenty of successful NFL players who have big personalities and do fine. Unfortunately with Guice and RGIII they both ended up having other issues down the road. 

There were reports out for both that ended up accurately reflecting the issues they had. Guice IIRC wasn’t anything specific just general “character concerns” that had numerous teams take him off their boards altogether. 
 

RG3, this was after our entire fanbase had already jumped onboard with drafting him and we weren’t interested in listening to criticism (and to be fair it kinda seemed like a hit piece). But the report was related to arrogance and rubbing some teammates/coaches the wrong way. Indeed, these personality traits came to light when things started going bad. 

[mistertim]

Yeah fair point about Guice and he did drop. Though I remember trying to figure out exactly what the character concerns were but there didn't seem to be anything specific...it was just sort of nebulous.

 

And I remember one or two negative pieces on RGIII but nothing that was a huge red flag. I think there were multiple things that combined to lead to his downfall, but I doubt arrogance was the only thing. There are some arrogant as hell NFL QBs (to be fair, you pretty much have to be confident almost to arrogance to succeed on that level) who have done absolutely fine. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by mistertim

[Darth Tater]

48 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This would be amazing, but there's absolutely no way in hell it would only cost our 2022 1st to move from 19 to 5. None. It would be at least our 2nd this year and our 1st next year...and that's without a bunch of competition to move up to that spot.

 

 

Did Guice and RGIII really have reports of "character issues" though? From my recollection, they were both seen as hard working guys with big personalities but nothing "bad" or any off field incidents or them being in any real trouble, legal or otherwise. There are plenty of successful NFL players who have big personalities and do fine. Unfortunately with Guice and RGIII they both ended up having other issues down the road. 

There were NO red flag level reports pre-draft concerning RG3's character. There were some questions about his ability to adapt to the Shanahan way if we wanted RG3 to play at a high-level for multiple seasons (Shan ran his players into the ground). There were some on Guice.

[TheGoodBits]

22 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

There were NO red flag level reports pre-draft concerning RG3's character. There were some questions about his ability to adapt to the Shanahan way if we wanted RG3 to play at a high-level for multiple seasons (Shan ran his players into the ground). There were some on Guice.

It wasn’t much, it was only right before the draft, but it wasn’t nothing. I remember being irritated about it, thinking someone picking behind us was trying to get us to second guess. https://deadspin.com/oh-look-robert-griffin-iii-has-character-issues-5903418

In retrospect, maybe something there. Maybe not. But from what came out of his departure from Washington, his teammates seemed not to like him much and he absolutely did not get along with the Shanahans. I think at the time our fanbase largely blamed the coaches, but with hindsight I place most of the blame on Griffin. 

[ODU AGGIE]

I wasn’t sure where to post this but decided this was likely the best place. Being new on here and after reading several posts that talked about the need to improve the O-line, especially on the left side and LT in particular, I decided to do some research. I started by watching the videos of the two Taylor Heinicke games.

 

AGAINST THE PANTHERS

There was only one sack, and that was when TH fell while maneuvering in the pocket.

There was one play with significant extended time given, resulting in a touchdown.

There were four pressures, with two from the right edge:

1.     MLB blitz results in a TH run for a first down

2.     Pressure from right edge results in a completed pass

3.     Pressure from the center results in a TD pass negated by a holding penalty

4.     Pressure from the right edge results in a TH run for a first down

 

AGAINST THE BUCS

There was only one sack, and that was at the end of the game in must-pass-time.

There were six pressures, with three from the right edge:

1.     MLB blitz results in a completed pass for a first down

2.     Pressure from right edge results in TH run for a first down

3.     Pressure from right edge results in a completed pass for a first down

4.     Pressure from right edge results in a TH run for a first down

5.     Pressure from the left edge results in a TH run for a first down

6.     Pressure from right, left and center results in a TH run for a touchdown

 

 Seeing those results led me to google 2020 offensive line rankings. Lo and behold, WFT is No. 6:

 

6. WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM

“Coming in at 29th on the preseason edition of these rankings, Washington presents one of the biggest surprises of the regular season with their play up front.

The biggest question mark coming into the year surrounded who would win the left tackle job. Geron Christian won the job and started there for six games before being placed on injured reserve with a knee injury. Still, his replacement, Cornelius Lucas, actually provided some stability at the position with a 78.3 overall grade and an 83.1 grade in pass protection that ranked 11th at the position over the regular season.

Solid play from Lucas and Wes Schweitzer on the left side, paired with top-10 grades from each of Chase Roullier, Brandon Scherff and Morgan Moses at the other starting spots, resulted in a much-improved group from a season ago. Roullier recently got his long-term extension to stay in Washington, and Scherff will be looking for the same this offseason.”

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

 

So, here is what I have concluded.

 

First, free agency: With the current offensive line and a QB with the skill set that TH possesses, even the pressures that do occur can result in positive plays, as they did in all ten instances in the Panthers and Bucs games. I think the best way to ensure another QB with a similar skill set is to make Mariota a priority when he becomes a free agent and then use other cap money to get help in positions other than offensive tackle.

 

Second, the draft: I see no reason to use an early round pick on an OT. I assume that the entire starting O-line that ended the season will be back in 2021. That will leave us in good shape with Lucas and Schweitzer holding down the left side. Those two allowed fewer pressures on Heinicke than Scherff and Moses did on the right side. I could not find an updated injury status on Christian, but him coming back ready to go would just be icing on the cake. I will assume we picked up Mariota in free agency. With no other free agent acquisitions assumed, take a wide receiver at 19. In the second we should take a second WR.  In the third take a LB and CB. After that, draft the best available athletes and if an OT falls there, so be it. Of course, any other free agent acquisitions would likely change the selections in rounds one through three as those priorities would have been addressed.

 

That’s how I see it today. It may change tomorrow. Cheers, all!

Edited March 7, 2021 by ODU AGGIE

[Darth Tater]

49 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

It wasn’t much, it was only right before the draft, but it wasn’t nothing. I remember being irritated about it, thinking someone picking behind us was trying to get us to second guess. https://deadspin.com/oh-look-robert-griffin-iii-has-character-issues-5903418

In retrospect, maybe something there. Maybe not. But from what came out of his departure from Washington, his teammates seemed not to like him much and he absolutely did not get along with the Shanahans. I think at the time our fanbase largely blamed the coaches, but with hindsight I place most of the blame on Griffin. 

As I said, no red-flag level character concerns.  The main concern was that RG3 did not have the ability to become the type of QB needed to play for more than a couple of years in a Shanahan system which tends to use and discard such players.

[clskinsfan]

If we want to trade up for one of the top 3 QB's the Bengals at 5 are our target to get it done. Philly will most likely go QB if one of the top 3 are left when they pick at 6. the question is what would it really cost us? My guess is 2 firsts and 2 seconds would make it happen. My only question is if it is Fields that is left at that point is he worth that kind of investment?