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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So many players I like in the 2nd-3rd rounge. 

 

 

 


I’m fairly unenthusiastic about picking #19. Get up the board for a stud or QB if one starts to fall. Alternatively go back for extra day 2 picks. Could do a lot of damage with 2,2,3,3,3 or something similar. I’d consider that if we are aggressive, and ‘successful’, in free agency.

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12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I'd trade Payne before trading Allen.  

 

while I doubt they would do this, what would Payne bring if traded straight up for a draft pick...mid 2nd?

56 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe so.   I liked Asasi in the last draft and he went higher than I expected.  I thought i was the only guy on earth who thought that Keene could be a good player, mock draft types had him in the 6th-7th, but the Pats took him in the third.   Keene didn't have big production in college but like Tremble showed that he could move and block.  Yet, Keene would be a poor man's version of Tremble.  So you are probably right, I think he drops to the third at the latest but he could go in the 2nd.

 

I think Tremble's measurables will be the kicker here.  To my eyes it looks like the dude can run. 

I was probably higher on Asasi than anyone on the board. I had him penciled in with one our 4th round picks. I still can't get over the Pat's grabbing him in the 3rd.

Love Tremble. I also really like Freiermuth but he gets little love around here. I mean we really only speak of Pitts and Jordan. Yes of course I like them but see Freiers size and blocking potential making him a better all around type TE like we all have screamed for for years.

48 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


I’m fairly unenthusiastic about picking #19. Get up the board for a stud or QB if one starts to fall. Alternatively go back for extra day 2 picks. Could do a lot of damage with 2,2,3,3,3 or something similar. I’d consider that if we are aggressive, and ‘successful’, in free agency.

I'm all in!

Can't agree more. If we were around 15 I'd say we have a shot at having a top guy fall to us but not at 19. The talent pool is fairly equal from 17-mid 2nd at least and we could really strengthen the heck out of this team in the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th rounds of this strong draft.

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


I’m fairly unenthusiastic about picking #19. Get up the board for a stud or QB if one starts to fall. Alternatively go back for extra day 2 picks. Could do a lot of damage with 2,2,3,3,3 or something similar. I’d consider that if we are aggressive, and ‘successful’, in free agency.

 

I'd put money that there will be a surprise faller to 19 but I am cool with trading down assuming we could find a trading partner.  It's not always easy to find a trade partner outside the top 10.

 

Tier A:  Almost slam dunk before 19 IMO (some are slam dunk, some almost)

Lawrence

Fields

Z. Wilson

Trey Lance

Pitts

Sewell

J. Chase

D. Smith

R. Slater

 

Tier B: Likely before 19

Mac Jones (judging by mocks but not sure about this one)

Micah Parsons

P. Surtain

C. Farley

J. Horn

J. Waddle

C. Darrisaw

2 of the D lineman hard for me to call which ones -- Barmore?  Paye?

 

That's 18 

 

For those that every now and then say no way Zaven Collins falls to our pick.  I'd say if mocks are on the money, almost 100% chance Collins lands at 19.  I think the only way N. Harris doesn't fall to 19 is if the Dolphins take him at 18 which is possible. 

 

The thing is though something funky or two just about always happens in the draft.   Something that seems wild today like a team takes Dickerson early or an extra D lineman goes early like J. Phillips or whatever.

 

So my point is I think the odds something wild happens is good, similar to how Derwin James was a top 10 prospect in most mocks but fell down much further to SD, and how Jonathan Allen fell to us.  For me it would have to someone from Tier A to drop to make me want to stay at 19.  

 

To trade down, if I had to guess I'd think we'd need Darrisaw, one of the corners, or one of the D lineman to make our spot an attractive trade spot.  I like Darrisaw at our pick, i like him a lot but apparently don't love him as much as some others here.  But i would be happy with him at 19.  But i'd rather trade down.   I really like Dillon Radunz a lot but I got a bunch.  I think it would be a missed opportunity not to come out of this draft with a LT and WR.  Those spots are unusually good/deep.

 

Trading down in the first my targets depending on whose left

 

Z. Collins

Koramoah

Radunz

N. Harris

Etienne

T. Jenkins

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Depending on where in around 2 ... could get a pair of 2’s for 19. Or maybe a 2/3 and future pick. And yes I agree with 2/2/3/3/3/4 you could do a lot of damage. The problem is I’m not sure you have that many needs. It would really round out the team, but depth is no longer an issue here. My guess is we sign a FA WR, LB, FS, Scherff and Darby. So with 6 mid round picks, I’d assume:

 

SWR, TE, LB, LT, CB, QB in no particular order ... with CB taking a higher priority if we don’t bring back Darby 

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


I’m fairly unenthusiastic about picking #19. Get up the board for a stud or QB if one starts to fall. Alternatively go back for extra day 2 picks. Could do a lot of damage with 2,2,3,3,3 or something similar. I’d consider that if we are aggressive, and ‘successful’, in free agency.

 

Agree.  but as @stevemcqueen1pointed out the same reasons why its attractive for us to trade down exists for the rest of the league as for similarly graded players falling in a wide range and if so it might not be easy to find a trade partner.  

 

That's one thing I've heard personnel guys joke about in interviews, people want them to trade up or trade down, it sounds great but trading partners don't always exist.  

 

But I am with you as for this mindset.  Hopefuly we get lucky on this front. 

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8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd put money that there will be a surprise faller to 19 but I am cool with trading down assuming we could find a trading partner.  It's not always easy to find a trade partner outside the top 10.

 

Tier A:  Almost slam dunk before 19 IMO (some are slam dunk, some almost)

Lawrence

Fields

Z. Wilson

Trey Lance

Pitts

Sewell

J. Chase

D. Smith

R. Slater

 

Tier B: Likely before 19

Mac Jones (judging by mocks but not sure about this one)

Micah Parsons

P. Surtain

C. Farley

J. Horn

J. Waddle

C. Darrisaw

2 of the D lineman hard for me to call which ones -- Barmore?  Paye?

 

That's 18 

 

For those that every now and then say no way Zaven Collins falls to our pick.  I'd say if mocks are on the money, almost 100% chance Collins lands at 19.  I think the only way N. Harris doesn't fall to 19 is if the Dolphins take him at 18 which is possible. 

 

The thing is though something funky or two just about always happens in the draft.   Something that seems wild today like a team takes Dickerson early or an extra D lineman goes early like J. Phillips or whatever.

 

So my point is I think the odds something wild happens is good, similar to how Derwin James was a top 10 prospect in most mocks but fell down much further to SD, and how Jonathan Allen fell to us.  For me it would have to someone from Tier A to drop to make me want to stay at 19.  

 

To trade down, if I had to guess I'd think we'd need Darrisaw, one of the corners, or one of the D lineman to make our spot an attractive trade spot.  I like Darrisaw at our pick, i like him a lot but apparently don't love him as much as some others here.  But i would be happy with him at 19.  But i'd rather trade down.   I really like Dillon Radunz a lot but I got a bunch.  I think it would be a missed opportunity not to come out of this draft with a LT and WR.  Those spots are unusually good/deep.

 

Trading down in the first my targets depending on whose left

 

Z. Collins

Koramoah

Radunz

N. Harris

Etienne

T. Jenkins

 

 

I'd say AVT is a stronger case to go top 18 vs Horn, but I'd be happy with either of them.  Both would be attractive trade up candidates since AVT is the only clear cut first round interior lineman (with Dickerson's injury concern).  Also a team may have AVT as a T prospect as well.  

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  but as @stevemcqueen1pointed out the same reasons why its attractive for us to trade down exists for the rest of the league as for similarly graded players falling in a wide range and if so it might not be easy to find a trade partner.  

 

That's one thing I've heard personnel guys joke about in interviews, people want them to trade up or trade down, it sounds great but trading partners don't always exist.  

 

But I am with you as for this mindset.  Hopefuly we get lucky on this front. 

 

 

If AVT were there at 19, Indy (if they view him as a LT), Tenn (to replace Wilson who looks to be cut/traded as a RT), NYJ (to build the o-line to protect Fields/Wilson (selected at #2) (they also have a boatload of picks to move up), Jax (build up o-line for Lawrence), Bal (if they trade Brown and play AVT at RT or G), GB (need interior o-line help), and KC (both tackles are aging and injured) would all trade up (IMO) for AVT.  He's super safe as a sure fire really good guard, and some like his tape as T (in terms of draft media).

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7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I think is Waddle, Smith, Lance, Slater, or Darrisaw is there you gotta make the pick. Anyone else I’d trade out. Add Pitts too, but can’t see him falling close to 19 but as others have said, crazier things happen

 

Be one of my all time stunners if Lance falls to 19.  Smith I'd be very surprised.  Waddle/Slater I'd be surprised.  Only one of those that would keep me from trading down would be Lance.  I don't see for example Radunz a mile away from Darrisaw.  I like a bunch of receivers just a hair lower than Waddle.

 

8 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

If AVT were there at 19, Indy (if they view him as a LT), Tenn (to replace Wilson who looks to be cut/traded as a RT), NYJ (to build the o-line to protect Fields/Wilson (selected at #2) (they also have a boatload of picks to move up), Jax (build up o-line for Lawrence), Bal (if they trade Brown and play AVT at RT or G), GB (need interior o-line help), and KC (both tackles are aging and injured) would all trade up (IMO) for AVT.  He's super safe as a sure fire really good guard, and some like his tape as T (in terms of draft media).

 

I have to watch AVT more but to me he looks like a guard (his original spot), he doesn't strike me as a must have trade up candidate.  The Colts liked for example years ago Ryan Kelly as we apparently did too but is he a trade up type of a player?  I don't know but my hunch is an interior O lineman unless its an elite guy Q. Nelson isn't a trade up candidate.  And if they see him as a tackle -- there are so many fish in the sea. 

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Every year people fall in love with trading down and racking up picks but how often does that work out and you end up with a bunch of good players? Remember the 08 draft?

 

I'd rather trade up then trade down.

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14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Every year people fall in love with trading down and racking up picks but how often does that work out and you end up with a bunch of good players? Remember the 08 draft?

 

I'd rather trade up then trade down.

 

We've been burned more often than benefitted in recent years from trading down.   Like I've been saying if Pitts is a surprise faller, I'd trade up for him within reason.  But aside from him and the QBs, not sure there is an obvious trade up prospect.

 

If we were picking top 10, I wouldn't want to trade down.  But 19 might not be that different from lets say 26 in this draft.

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That tweet is posted as a representation of why you should attack certain positions in the draft.

 

If we go OT-WR-QB with our first 3 picks, aside from the QB likely being a crapshoot/long term grooming play, getting a WR and OT on rookie contracts would be really beneficial. Use FA to go for some of the lower-priced positions like TE, LB, FS, etc.

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Every year people fall in love with trading down and racking up picks but how often does that work out and you end up with a bunch of good players? Remember the 08 draft?

 

I'd rather trade up then trade down.

 

I've got some counterpoints.

 

First, we could trade down and gather future draft picks.  If Heinicke isn't the real deal, we'd need extra draft ammo to trade for somebody in 2022.

 

Second, that trade back in 2008 could've worked great, but Cerrato/Snyder took over.

 

Trying to remember, but I think Malcolm Kelly was Cerrato telling the doctors they didn't know what they were talking about with his knee, and Devin Thomas was Snyder who got obsessed with his highlights?  Forgetting who loved Fred Davis, but I think there was also some head for that one.

 

Could've had some combo of Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson, Martellus Bennett, Calais Campbell etc with those 3 second rounders.

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55 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

What the in the world is #19 doing at 22 seconds.  He turned around...completely?  His back is facing the WR.  What?  Was it lucky fan day and they had someone step on the field from the stands?

 

But seriously, Darden is intriguing.  Definitely keep posting his stuff.  This draft is loaded with intriguing slot guys.  No way do I want to spend a 1st on one when there's so many in the draft.

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3 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

That tweet is posted as a representation of why you should attack certain positions in the draft.

 

If we go OT-WR-QB with our first 3 picks, aside from the QB likely being a crapshoot/long term grooming play, getting a WR and OT on rookie contracts would be really beneficial. Use FA to go for some of the lower-priced positions like TE, LB, FS, etc.

There really is a ton of value in getting a receiving TE. If you can get a TE to be your top or 2nd option, you should pay him 100% of the time. 

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7 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

What the in the world is #19 doing at 22 seconds.  He turned around...completely?  His back is facing the WR.  What?  Was it lucky fan day and they had someone step on the field from the stands?

 

But seriously, Darden is intriguing.  Definitely keep posting his stuff.  This draft is loaded with intriguing slot guys.  No way do I want to spend a 1st on one when there's so many in the draft.

There are too many good receivers in this draft to waste anything more than a 7th rounder on a receiver from North Texas. We already have our own enigma from a small school in AGG and guys like Darden tend to go undrafted.

1 minute ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

There really is a ton of value in getting a receiving TE. If you can get a TE to be your top or 2nd option, you should pay him 100% of the time. 

If you look at the consistency of champions or at least SB attendees having potent TE threats it's impressive. Gronk and Kelce this year, Kittle and Kelce last year, the only team that didn't have a viable threat in the SB in the last 5 years were the Rams.

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13 hours ago, seantaylor=god said:

That story came directly from Mike Shanahan in an interview on the radio a few years ago. He said they wanted to bring him along slower, but RG3 wouldn’t accept that. Now, Mike is also a liar, but I do believe this story.

I know that. What I am saying is that RG3's history shows that his only chance for a long, solid career was if he could become a drop back passer (even including his rookie year).  Because of this, the decision to try was not stupid but good from RG3's POV.  He is smart enough to know:

  • Do such a transition BEFORE concussions and other injuries you risk because you can't slide and the offense requires you to be super aggressive. A pocket passer must be able to process quickly and doesn't have the advantage of stressing defenders the way a young, healthy RG3 could, concussions slows your processing and injuries make it so you donb't stress the defenders like you did. Cam Newton is done at 31 partly because you never had to worry about his game management skills. There is a reason that guys like Brady and Brees played at a high-level into their late 30s and early 40s while most other QBs are done by the time they are in their mid 30s (Alex Smith is done because he is no longer the athletic threat he once was). Once you pass the LOS, you are simply another RB.
  • Find out if you can or can't be a more traditional passer as quickly as you can.  When you are 40, you want to be able to enjoy all that money or still be playing at a high-level if you want.
  • Mike Shanahan as a QB had nearly died because he was so aggressive and several of the guys who played for him had short careers because of his coaching style.
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36 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

There are too many good receivers in this draft to waste anything more than a 7th rounder on a receiver from North Texas. We already have our own enigma from a small school in AGG and guys like Darden tend to go undrafted.

 

 

I'd put money that Darden doesn't go undrafted.  Gandy-Golden wasn't much as for seperation skills in college -- projections about him involved his physicality.

 

I wouldn't dismiss small school receivers because of AGG.  Tyreek Hill coming from West Alabama, Garcon, etc.    Usually guys who can seperate, do YAC, track the deep ball and run like Darden are coveted in this league especially these days.  PFF swears by the most by the yards per route stat -- and I believe Darden is their top receiver on that metric or 2nd best.   They dubbed him as a third rounder.  Will see.

 

IMO, I think with him depends on what he runs.  If its in the 4.3's I'd bet he goes before the middle rounds. If its 4.5 plus I think he falls to the later rounds.   Many thought Mecole Hardman would go late in the draft, he ended up going early.    The trend seems to be speed, speed, speed with all the backfield motion that teams now use modeling the Chiefs/Rams.  A dude like Darden fits today's NFL well IMO.  A dude like AGG, not so much.

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7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So many players I like in the 2nd-3rd range. 

 

 

Tremble has moved from a day 3 pick (when he declared) to a day 2 pick among the draft crowd.  Don't know what the actual professionals think of him (probably already on him as a day 2 pick given the decision back then) but I'm not surprised he is now at day 2 after watching some of his tape.

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When I talked about Bateman I lauded his speed especially as accelerating fast in a short radius in the flat (5-10 yards).  After writing that, I read some of the reports about him and my take seemed out of synch with some of the draft geeks who bill him as more of a possession dude with speed being perhaps his weakness. 

 

It doesn't surprise me that Crabbs on the tweet below still can't accept that speed because I gather it conflicts with all those possesion receiver reports that people like him have written about Bateman.  Personally, i thought he was both -- posession type with speed.  I didn't think Tyreek Hill type of speed but he looks fast to me and I said so.   So it was good for me to stumble on that tweet below, I am usually pretty good (though far from perfect) at judging speed without the benefit of knowing their timed speed. 

 

Would I take him at 19?  Nope.  But I wouldn't hate it.  As I said at the time I like dudes who can seperate in a short space in the flat because that mirrors so much in today's NFL IMO -- and Bateman does that so well.   He played basketball and it shows -- reminds me of a WR version of Jordan Reed as to his ability to quickly seperate in a short space.  He uses his body language well to deceive defenders, accelerates fast and cuts fast. 

 

To me his game is being a catching machine in the flat.    I do think he can do more than be a weapon in the flat but to my eyes that's his strength and the stats back that up.   I think the dude has one of the highest floors among the receivers. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


I’m fairly unenthusiastic about picking #19. Get up the board for a stud or QB if one starts to fall. Alternatively go back for extra day 2 picks. Could do a lot of damage with 2,2,3,3,3 or something similar. I’d consider that if we are aggressive, and ‘successful’, in free agency.

 

19 for both Jax 2nds (33 and 45) is close to fair, and would be 2 (33), 2 (45), 2 (51), 3 (74), 3 (82).  I think if a guy like Waddle falls, they might consider to get Lawrence another target and still leave themselves in position at #25 for a 3rd 5yr guy at say OT.  Getting all 3 puts Lawrence in good position, depends on how they compare to what is expected at 33...

 

And I'd love to have the 1st pick on day 2.  I think teams in the next ten might consider tossing a 3rd (maybe a 4th, but then maybe we don't do it....) if they fall in love with a guy.  Would be tough to move twice, but you'd have a shot at 2,2,2,3,3,3 I think.  (Call it 40, 45, 51, 72, 74, 82).  Here I don't hae an example as there are too many moving pieces.

 

Since the right QB at 19 is unlikely, I'd be happy if they were able to do something like this.

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48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd put money that Darden doesn't go undrafted.  Gandy-Golden wasn't much as for seperation skills in college -- projections about him involved his physicality.

 

I wouldn't dismiss small school receivers because of AGG.  Tyreek Hill coming from West Alabama, Garcon, etc.    Usually guys who can seperate, do YAC, track the deep ball and run like Darden are coveted in this league especially these days.  PFF swears by the most by the yards per route stat -- and I believe Darden is their top receiver on that metric or 2nd best.   They dubbed him as a third rounder.  Will see.

 

IMO, I think with him depends on what he runs.  If its in the 4.3's I'd bet he goes before the middle rounds. If its 4.5 plus I think he falls to the later rounds.   Many thought Mecole Hardman would go late in the draft, he ended up going early.    The trend seems to be speed, speed, speed with all the backfield motion that teams now use modeling the Chiefs/Rams.  A dude like Darden fits today's NFL well IMO.  A dude like AGG, not so much.

I think all of that would be true if the draft was already so deep. 2016 was a weak class outside of Thomas and Hill.

14 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

19 for both Jax 2nds (33 and 45) is close to fair, and would be 2 (33), 2 (45), 2 (51), 3 (74), 3 (82).  I think if a guy like Waddle falls, they might consider to get Lawrence another target and still leave themselves in position at #25 for a 3rd 5yr guy at say OT.  Getting all 3 puts Lawrence in good position, depends on how they compare to what is expected at 33...

 

And I'd love to have the 1st pick on day 2.  I think teams in the next ten might consider tossing a 3rd (maybe a 4th, but then maybe we don't do it....) if they fall in love with a guy.  Would be tough to move twice, but you'd have a shot at 2,2,2,3,3,3 I think.  (Call it 40, 45, 51, 72, 74, 82).  Here I don't hae an example as there are too many moving pieces.

 

Since the right QB at 19 is unlikely, I'd be happy if they were able to do something like this.

If Weddle is there we take him. Also, I’m all for trading out of 19 but I prefer not trading out of the first round altogether. I want that 5th year option otherwise we have three second rounders all due new contracts the same year as Chase Young.

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6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I’m all for trading out of 19 but I prefer not trading out of the first round altogether. I want that 5th year option otherwise we have three second rounders all due new contracts the same year as Chase Young.

Although that's a valid concern, it'd also be a really good problem to have.

With the luck we've had recently with second round picks I'd be ok with having to make tough decisions on 3 from the same draft, that'd pretty much mean our roster was stacked.

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