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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

I am cool with Collins, I believe i was the first one to post about him on the thread, and posted some of those articles.   So I am an easy sell.  I often have a player or two I zero in on wanting in a big way at 19.  I have multiple guys right now on that front so for me its not Collins or anyone else in a runaway.  Only dude right now in a runaway is on the off chance Pitts slips to the teens i want to trade up for him.  I think he's going to be distinctly special than any of the likely players landing at 19.  The dude is a freak.  

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/tulsa-lb-collins-a-small-town-player-with-big-time-talent/

“Unbelievable kid, unbelievable teammate, great leader,” Tulsa coach Philip Montgomery said after the Tulane game. “Why is that guy not in the running for the Heisman? Tell me someone that has affected more games than that guy. I mean, if we want to talk about the best football players in college football, in my opinion, he’s there.

First off, the Pitts stuff was low :ols: you know how I feel about TEs :ols:  And he's from the same part of Philly. I can't even allow myself to pretend he could be our pick.

 

I love that quote about Collins. He really checks every box and does it with incredible size and speed. It just seems like a perfect fit. I have to think Ron wants his Kuelchy and JDR isn't going to stop him. I doubt Bolton is there at our 2nd, but sign David, draft Moehrig and Bolton. Resign Darby. We have zero weaknesses on our Defense for 5 years.

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8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:


I know and its certainly possible. 😧

I figure all things equal, Philly passes because they have Dallas Goedert and will instead take Smith/Chase.  The Cowboys probably take defense or LT over a TE since they have so much money and resources invested in their skill guys ( they also resigned Jarwin before he got hurt).  The Giants worry me.  I’m hoping a team trades up ahead of them

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8 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I figure all things equal, Philly passes because they have Dallas Goedert and will instead take Smith/Chase.  The Cowboys probably take defense or LT over a TE since they have so much money and resources invested in their skill guys ( they also resigned Jarwin before he got hurt).  The Giants worry me.  I’m hoping a team trades up ahead of them

The Giants are the biggest fear. He is a top 3 pick, but a TE. No respect. Are you getting a Bubba Franks or a Todd Heap? A Gonz or a Hockenson? 

 

If you hit on a TE like Gates, Gonz or Witten, you're going to win a lot of football games.

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Sleeper at WR, Jaelon Darden.  Maybe someone talked about him here?  If so, sorry I don't recall.  

 

What got my attention about him is I did some WR stat comparsions at PFF and elsewhere and that dude really jumped out.  I could only find one game so I watched that and watched a long highlight reel.  He played at Northern Texas.  Some sick numbers.  90 receiving grade. Their highest ranked receiver in causing missed tackles.  An insane 19 TDs this season, almost 1200 yards.  

 

He's another of these 5"9 175 type slot speed types. I can't recall a draft so loaded with WRs that fit that profile.   He's fast, he can seperate.  He reminds me some of a poor man's Elijah Moore in that he's really good at tracking the ball in the air.  Deep ball guy.  Not all fast receivers can seperate and also can track the deep ball.   Darden seems to be one of those guys who can do all three things (run by dudes, seperate, track the ball well) like a Desean Jackson.    He looks like a dude who would thrive on quick hitches/slants/comeback/go routes.  The short stuff in the flat for YAC and the long ball.  And to my eyes he has real talent on both fronts. 

 

As for the short stuff in the flat, he's not as shifty as Rondale Moore with the ball in his hands but he can make some sick cuts without losing speed.   He accelerates fast.  He is a bit lazy as for run blocking but had some moments, he pushes defenders without much force versus really blocking them.  From the game I watched they didn't really use him so much as a backfield weapon.  but with his speed and shiftiness he certainly can be used that way. 

 

As as for the long ball-deep threat, he can track the ball well, has pretty good hands, and can run by dudes.  To my eyes, he's sort of a poor man's Desean Jackson as for the deep ball but brings more to the table as to being a weapon in the flat than Desean.  5th round?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Giants are the biggest fear. He is a top 3 pick, but a TE. No respect. Are you getting a Bubba Franks or a Todd Heap? A Gonz or a Hockenson? 

 

If you hit on a TE like Gates, Gonz or Witten, you're going to win a lot of football games.

 

 

Pitts looks like a more explosive Jordan Reed.

 

Honestly, I'd trade #19+2021 2nd+2022 3rd to move up to get him (in the 8-10 range).  That was the cost the Steelers had to pay to move up from 20 to 10 to take Devin Bush.  Pitts is an elite talent.

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6 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Pitts looks like a more explosive Jordan Reed.

 

Honestly, I'd trade #19+2021 2nd+2022 3rd to move up to get him (in the 8-10 range).  That was the cost the Steelers had to pay to move up from 20 to 10 to take Devin Bush.  Pitts is an elite talent.

 

Yeah I'd be willing to be aggressive to get Pitts.  

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Pitts looks like a more explosive Jordan Reed.

 

Honestly, I'd trade #19+2021 2nd+2022 3rd to move up to get him (in the 8-10 range).  That was the cost the Steelers had to pay to move up from 20 to 10 to take Devin Bush.  Pitts is an elite talent.

You don't have to convince me. He, IMO, is going to be the greatest TE ever and it's my favorite offensive position. We're from a similar area in Philly. He refused to change position and wants to be a TE. I don't think it's possible for an offensive player to be higher on my list than Pitts is.  :ols: 

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12 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You don't have to convince me. He, IMO, is going to be the greatest TE ever and it's my favorite offensive position. We're from a similar area in Philly. He refused to change position and wants to be a TE. I don't think it's possible for an offensive player to be higher on my list than Pitts is.  :ols: 

 

If I recall he was the first guy I watched right before the college season started.  And after watching I'd guess about 70 plus college TEs in the last three years -- my eyes just lit up within seconds that this dude is different.  I recall posting on the thread right after I watched him that this dude moves like a receiver.  I've not seen in all of my watchings a TE who moves like Pitts.  I was instantly enamored.  And then it just grew because his 2020 season was even better than the 2019 tape.   He became an even bigger freak. 

 

For me its like my version of how Chase Young felt like last year.   Early on during the 2019 season watching Chase in real time I got enamored (as were others on this thread) but what got me for keeps was watching 4 games in a row of his.  The dude was so unusually relentlessly disruptive.   And I recall saying on the thread afterwards, if we can get this dude i am not trading down, I am taking him.  Chase just looked different than other pass rushers i watched.  Granted I haven't watched as many pass rushers though as I have Wrs and TEs.  And it was super easy to see Chase looked like a star.  

 

Pitts to me is the closest version for me as this year's Chase from the stand point that he just looks so different from other players who played that spot.  Special player IMO.  Some guys I like but I wouldn't bet my mortgage on.  They have some things that make you pause.  There was nothing about Chase that made me pause.  There is likewise nothing that makes me pause about Pitts -- he just screams superstar to me. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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52 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Giants are the biggest fear. He is a top 3 pick, but a TE. No respect. Are you getting a Bubba Franks or a Todd Heap? A Gonz or a Hockenson? 

 

If you hit on a TE like Gates, Gonz or Witten, you're going to win a lot of football games.

 

Jesus you are checking out on Hockenson way too soon.  

 

For the record, Hock has more catches, yards, and touchdowns than Tony G had in his first two seasons.

 

Everyone: Tight ends take 3 years to develop!

 

Everyone after year two:  He only went 65/700/6, use him as a negative comp!

 

 

 

 

Edited by 86 Snyder
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43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sleeper at WR, Jaelon Darden.  Maybe someone talked about him here?  If so, sorry I don't recall.  

 

What got my attention about him is I did some WR stat comparsions at PFF and elsewhere and that dude really jumped out.  I could only find one game so I watched that and watched a long highlight reel.  He played at Northern Texas.  Some sick numbers.  90 receiving grade. Their highest ranked receiver in causing missed tackles.  An insane 19 TDs this season, almost 1200 yards.  

 

He's another of these 5"9 175 type slot speed types. I can't recall a draft so loaded with WRs that fit that profile.   He's fast, he can seperate.  He reminds me some of a poor man's Elijah Moore in that he's really good at tracking the ball in the air.  Deep ball guy.  Not all fast receivers can seperate and also can track the deep ball.   Darden seems to be one of those guys who can do all three things (run by dudes, seperate, track the ball well) like a Desean Jackson.    He looks like a dude who would thrive on quick hitches/slants/comeback/go routes.  The short stuff in the flat for YAC and the long ball.  And to my eyes he has real talent on both fronts. 

 

As for the short stuff in the flat, he's not as shifty as Rondale Moore with the ball in his hands but he can make some sick cuts without losing speed.   He accelerates fast.  He is a bit lazy as for run blocking but had some moments, he pushes defenders without much force versus really blocking them.  From the game I watched they didn't really use him so much as a backfield weapon.  but with his speed and shiftiness he certainly can be used that way. 

 

As as for the long ball-deep threat, he can track the ball well, has pretty good hands, and can run by dudes.  To my eyes, he's sort of a poor man's Desean Jackson as for the deep ball but brings more to the table as to being a weapon in the flat than Desean.  5th round?

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, thanks for posting this.  He looks like Tyreek playing in Marquise Brown's body.  There are some big time traits here.

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8 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Wow, thanks for posting this.  He looks like Tyreek playing in Marquise Brown's body.  There are some big time traits here.

Reminds me a bit of Desean Jackson. Some incredible speed there.

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22 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Jesus you are checking out on Hockenson way too soon.  

 

For the record, Hock has more catches, yards, and touchdowns than Tony G had in his first two seasons.

 

Everyone: Tight ends take 3 years to develop!

 

Everyone after year two:  He only went 65/700/6, use him as a negative comp!

 

 

 

 

I mean Hock's not a bad player but I remember people saying he'd revolutionize the TE position and all that jazz. He hasn't been close to that yet and he doesn't have the "bad QB" excuse either.

 

His #s were basically on par with Logan Thomas last year.

Edited by Warhead36
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4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean Hock's not a bad player but I remember people saying he'd revolutionize the TE position and all that jazz. He hasn't been close to that yet and he doesn't have the "bad QB" excuse either.

 

His #s were basically on par with Logan Thomas last year.

 

Revolutionize the TE position?  What?  That happened with Sharpe in the 90's. 

 

Yeah, he hasn't been the receiving threat people envisioned, but the reason he went Top 10 was his blocking + his receiving.  Now...I honestly don't know if the blocking has been as advertised or not.

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4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean Hock's not a bad player but I remember people saying he'd revolutionize the TE position and all that jazz. He hasn't been close to that yet and he doesn't have the "bad QB" excuse either.

 

His #s were basically on par with Logan Thomas last year.

 

What Thomas accomplished was amazing.  It also took until his 4th year, with a new team, and one not named Detroit.

 

The Detroit system has not been prioritizing tight ends.  Inexplicably so, because they invested such an early pick on Hock.  Hes an all around TE though and is just on the cusp of breaking out in passing game numbers.  

 

Hock had a better first two seasons than Kelce, Tony G, and Ertz.  Its way too early to insinuate he's a disappointment of any sort.  

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2 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Revolutionize the TE position?  What?  That happened with Sharpe in the 90's. 

 

Yeah, he hasn't been the receiving threat people envisioned, but the reason he went Top 10 was his blocking + his receiving.  Now...I honestly don't know if the blocking has been as advertised or not.

 

There is more asked of him than any TE not named Kittle.  He's very good across the board.  If the new regime prioritizes him, the big numbers will kick in too.  The one nagging concern is that he's been knicked up a decent amount.

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2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Pauline LOVES Rondale Moore.  

 

Thanks for sharing that.  I love that kid too.  To me he is almost a clone of Tyreek Hill in terms of function and skill set and build.  And beyond that, I think he would be an awesome fit in our offensive system.  I love how he'd be able to stretch the field for us vertically and horizontally.  And I love that he was able to handle a gigantic workload for Purdue's offense and just keep producing big plays all game.

 

I can see how others aren't high on him, because he is tiny and he has an injury history.  But weapons like him are how we see the supposed creativity of the Scott Turner offense on a consistent basis IMO.  He's a massive upgrade over Steven Sims.

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57 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You don't have to convince me. He, IMO, is going to be the greatest TE ever and it's my favorite offensive position. We're from a similar area in Philly. He refused to change position and wants to be a TE. I don't think it's possible for an offensive player to be higher on my list than Pitts is.  :ols: 

 

1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Pitts looks like a more explosive Jordan Reed.

 

Honestly, I'd trade #19+2021 2nd+2022 3rd to move up to get him (in the 8-10 range).  That was the cost the Steelers had to pay to move up from 20 to 10 to take Devin Bush.  Pitts is an elite talent.

Count me in on being aggressive to move up and get pitts. 

 

- love how he is such a dynamic receiving threat, but that he could line up anywhere.  With similar versatile usage with tmac, gibson, and JD, can be a key cog in an explosive offense. 

- like how he is a decent blocker.  for a guy with his receiving skills, to also be able to hold your own enough where lining up inline can still keep defenses guessing, that's huge

- imagine an improving logan thomas as the #2 TE.  Double tight sets will be a problem for defenses.

- Assuming we add a solid WR in FA (maybe 2), and could maneuver to get pitts, we have a solid 1-2 combo at both WR and TE.   Effective pass catching backs like AG and JDM.  We would quickly go from a barren offense to one that could even attract FA QBs.  Or more importantly, we could have the weapons on offense where we wouldn't need TH to always look like superman like he did last time out, but just to make the plays that open up in front of him via mismatches and playmakers making plays.

 

Five years down the road, when writers start doing their 2021 re-draft, kyle pitts could be a #1 overall re-do. Add in how well he immediately helps our team with our current makeup, I'd be ecstatic if we got him.  Hope they are aggressive for him.

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10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If so that's 18 going before 19.  And you almost always have a couple of surprises but lets say it goes that way, then you'd have a choice of...

J. Horrn

T. Jenkins

N. Harris

Z. Collins

Koramoah

Cosmi

 

Add Bateman and Etienne to that list of BPA candidates.  If you go by the mocks, Owusu-Koromoah is the BPA in that scenario.  He consistently gets mocked before 19 and most places have him in their top ~17ish on their big boards.  I'm still a little skeptical that he'll go so high due to his size, but his high draft stock has not been elastic thus far.

 

There is no proper combine this year, and I think that hurts the edge class more than any other position group given it's full of freak athletes with marginal production.  I think there is a very real chance that no edge prospect goes in the top 20 this year, and that you can take some of those BPA candidates at 19 off the list as Paye and Rosseau and Ojulari no longer take up draft slots in front of us.  All of those good teams picking in the 20s are about to ****ing clean up with pass rushers they normally never would have gotten a shot at.  I'm thinking the big edge run happens 20-50, which will hopefully push some really good offensive skill players and offensive tackles to our pick at 51.

 

I think we should be giving Jaycee Horn more credit as a BPA option at 19.  That kid's highs are absolutely spectacular.  Physical, big, long-armed man corner who can be an absolute glove downfield carrying speed plus dominate as a force man on outside runs like he did on this play:

 

giphy.gif

 

He'd be a fascinating and exciting swing for the fences type pick at 19.

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Horn looks the part, has the genetics (Joe Horn's son), but i'll be damned if I ever attempt to evaluate a CB again. I viewed Okudah as a can't miss CB, he was as sure as you could be to me. 

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Anyone watched film of WR Simi Fehoko of Stanford?  He could be had for a late day 3 pick.  Watch his 2020 highlights and I think some of you will fall in love with the guy. 

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35 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Add Bateman and Etienne to that list of BPA candidates.  If you go by the mocks, Owusu-Koromoah is the BPA in that scenario.  He consistently gets mocked before 19 and most places have him in their top ~17ish on their big boards.  I'm still a little skeptical that he'll go so high due to his size, but his high draft stock has not been elastic thus far.

 

There is no proper combine this year, and I think that hurts the edge class more than any other position group given it's full of freak athletes with marginal production.  I think there is a very real chance that no edge prospect goes in the top 20 this year, and that you can take some of those BPA candidates at 19 off the list as Paye and Rosseau and Ojulari no longer take up draft slots in front of us.  All of those good teams picking in the 20s are about to ****ing clean up with pass rushers they normally never would have gotten a shot at.  I'm thinking the big edge run happens 20-50, which will hopefully push some really good offensive skill players and offensive tackles to our pick at 51.

 

I think we should be giving Jaycee Horn more credit as a BPA option at 19.  That kid's highs are absolutely spectacular.  Physical, big, long-armed man corner who can be an absolute glove downfield carrying speed plus dominate as a force man on outside runs like he did on this play:

 

giphy.gif

 

He'd be a fascinating and exciting swing for the fences type pick at 19.

 

I agree with your thinking about the Edge group and where they'll likely land.

 

I haven't looked at the corner group at all, but if Horn is as you say, he sounds like a Xavier Rhodes or Marlon Humphrey style of prospect.  And I love those.  Look at the way #18 gets up and his body language after the play.  If those are fair comps, then I definitely need to watch Jaycee Horn.

6 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Horn looks the part, has the genetics (Joe Horn's son), but i'll be damned if I ever attempt to evaluate a CB again. I viewed Okudah as a can't miss CB, he was as sure as you could be to me. 

 

Way too early to tell on a CB.  Rookie CB's usually struggle no matter how much talent they have.  Patrick Peterson was up and down his rookie season, but then dominated.  If Okudah doesn't make a leap to above average in year 2, then we can start talking about mis-evaluating him.

 

That said, I never actually scouted him.  I was so dead set on Young at #2, I never scouted any of the 1st round corners.  I scouted other guys we might've taken on Day 2 of the draft.

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43 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Way too early to tell on a CB.  Rookie CB's usually struggle no matter how much talent they have.  Patrick Peterson was up and down his rookie season, but then dominated.  If Okudah doesn't make a leap to above average in year 2, then we can start talking about mis-evaluating him.

 

That said, I never actually scouted him.  I was so dead set on Young at #2, I never scouted any of the 1st round corners.  I scouted other guys we might've taken on Day 2 of the draft.

It's early but there really wasn't much positives to even build off of from Okudah. Obviously I wouldn't give up on him if I were a Lions fan, but I'd be somewhat concerned if I started hearing bad things come out of camp. 

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9 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Honestly, I'd trade #19+2021 2nd+2022 3rd to move up to get him (in the 8-10 range).  That was the cost the Steelers had to pay to move up from 20 to 10 to take Devin Bush.  Pitts is an elite talent.

 

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I'd be willing to be aggressive to get Pitts.  

 

There is a distinct and deserving love fest for Pitts. Almost the same as Lance partially because there will probably be a couple QB's off the board before him.

 

If both Pitts and Lance were there in the 8-10 range and WFT made the move up as the card is coming to the podium, which name do you guys want to hear?

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