2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

PFF confirming the eye test that our biggest needs are WR and LB. Surprised Reaves is ranked so high but that's probably due to small sample size.

and Payne so low.

[Anselmheifer]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

PFF's take of our roster, ranked 7th out of the 8 playoff teams

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-who-is-the-most-complete-2020-nfl-playoff-team

NO. 7: WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM

Offense

• The offensive line is the only thing saving this offense from being a below-average unit in all four of our categories. Even then, the Football Team’s status as PFF’s No. 3 pass-blocking offensive line is probably more due to Alex Smith’s tendency to get rid of the ball as quick as humanly possible: His average of 2.38 seconds from snap to pass is the eighth-fastest mark among all QBs with at least 200 dropbacks. 
• Only the Jets and Eagles had a worse overall passing offense rank than the Football Team. Their main issue all season has been creating big plays through the air; they join the 2018 Jaguars as the only offenses to post an explosive pass-play rate under 11% over the past three seasons.

 

See the bolded part of the quote above. Holy hell. PFF grades are so dumb. They didn't factor the time from snap to pass in to the pass blocking grade? Why can I watch the game and see that we are throwing the ball in 2.5 seconds and are still facing pressure, and know that's the OL, and PFF can't? Our OL isn't good. We aren't as bad as I thought we'd be, but we also aren't good. We certainly aren't the 3rd best pass blocking OL in the league. Insert eye roll emoji here. 

[Warhead36]

47 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

and Payne so low.

I know he had two sacks last night but the reality is Payne isn't really a pass rusher and that probably hurts his grades. Real good against the run though.

[Tedskins 21]

22 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

See the bolded part of the quote above. Holy hell. PFF grades are so dumb. They didn't factor the time from snap to pass in to the pass blocking grade? Why can I watch the game and see that we are throwing the ball in 2.5 seconds and are still facing pressure, and know that's the OL, and PFF can't? Our OL isn't good. We aren't as bad as I thought we'd be, but we also aren't good. We certainly aren't the 3rd best pass blocking OL in the league. Insert eye roll emoji here. 

Pretty interesting to point out. I think the right side is settled. The left side can certainly be upgraded. 

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I know he had two sacks last night but the reality is Payne isn't really a pass rusher and that probably hurts his grades. Real good against the run though.

I think a healthy Matt changes the outcome of yesterdays game drastically.  People talking about trading Matt are crazy. He is our best interior rusher by far. I think if he can stay healthy next, Chase and Sweats numbers go up.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Tedskins 21

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I know he had two sacks last night but the reality is Payne isn't really a pass rusher and that probably hurts his grades. Real good against the run though.

True, but pass rush shouldn't be the measure on an interior lineman. He had a FF too.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Payne was by far our most effective and active D-lineman and imo it wasn't even close. 2nd on the list for me would be John Allen. The ends got stymied.

[Tedskins 21]

1 minute ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Payne was by far our most effective and active D-lineman and imo it wasn't even close. 2nd on the list for me would be John Allen. The ends got stymied.

We couldn’t consistently stop the run and the middle of the field was open all day for underneath throws. Better backer play would have resulted in a better rush off the edge. Play action killed us. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

3 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

We couldn’t consistently stop the run and the middle of the field was open all day for underneath throws. Better backer play would have resulted in a better rush off the edge. Play action killed us. 

 

Yeah I mentioned stopping the run was the key to the game in one of the threads. The Bucs are most effective when they have both clicking. And our biggest weakness was stopping the run quietly ranking 14-15.  Once you get the run going everything becomes easier. Our LB play has been a problem for a while here. I thought JDR called a poor game as well, not his best moment. Bottomline is the D had to play lights out for us to win and they didn't. We had a few moments but too many big plays given up, and we didn't have enough answers for Brady. No shame in that, sometimes the other team just performs better than you. 

[Tedskins 21]

8 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

Yeah I mentioned stopping the run was the key to the game in one of the threads. The Bucs are most effective when they have both clicking. And our biggest weakness was stopping the run quietly ranking 14-15.  Once you get the run going everything becomes easier. Our LB play has been a problem for a while here. I thought JDR called a poor game as well, not his best moment. Bottomline is the D had to play lights out for us to win and they didn't. We had a few moments but too many big plays given up, and we didn't have enough answers for Brady. No shame in that, sometimes the other team just performs better than you. 

Agreed. I think drafting a bluechip LB fixes a lot of issues; Collins, Parsons, or JOK (my order of preference.) 

[Anselmheifer]

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2020/10/analyst-andre-ciscos-injury-complicates-nfl-draft-stock-but-hes-still-likely-to-be-a-top-prospect.html

 

I wonder where Andre Cisco is going to go in the draft after his injury. He has 2 years of eligibility left, so I suppose he could come back. He had 7 INT's as a freshman, 5 as a sophomore, and 1, in two games, before going down with an ACL this year. He is 6'0" and 207 pounds and supposedly runs a 4.33. With that kind of athleticism, paired with ball skills and instincts, he could be a really valuable addition at FS. I wonder if there is any chance he falls to the 3rd. I like him for us better than Paris Ford I think. He's a more natural FS. And we could keep Curl at his more natural spot. 

 

 

Edit:

Interesting mock here. They have Zaven Collins going at 9. We take Waddle at 19. Owusu-Koramoah goes at 25. Kadarius Tony also slips into the 1st, and I have now seen multiple drafts mocking him there. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Anselmheifer

[Tedskins 21]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2020/10/analyst-andre-ciscos-injury-complicates-nfl-draft-stock-but-hes-still-likely-to-be-a-top-prospect.html

 

I wonder where Andre Cisco is going to go in the draft after his injury. He has 2 years of eligibility left, so I suppose he could come back. He had 7 INT's as a freshman, 5 as a sophomore, and 1, in two games, before going down with an ACL this year. He is 6'0" and 207 pounds and supposedly runs a 4.33. With that kind of athleticism, paired with ball skills and instincts, he could be a really valuable addition at FS. I wonder if there is any chance he falls to the 3rd. I like him for us better than Paris Ford I think. He's a more natural FS. And we could keep Curl at his more natural spot. 

 

 

If you can snag him later, I am into it. But Reaves is a solid cover safety. I think corner is a bigger need than safety. Fuller needs to be in the slot. Jimmy hasn’t panned out to be who we hoped. Keeping Darby and finding another outside corner and sliding Fuller inside would be ideal.  It’s too bad Quinton ended up pulling what he did.

How much would Sherman or Patrick be this offseason? Any mid-round sleeper corners?

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, Tedskins 21 said:

If you can snag him later, I am into it. But Reaves is a solid cover safety. I think corner is a bigger need than safety. Fuller needs to be in the slot. Jimmy hasn’t panned out to be who we hoped. Keeping Darby and finding another outside corner and sliding Fuller inside would be ideal.  It’s too bad Quinton ended up pulling what he did.

How much would Sherman or Patrick be this offseason? Any mid-round sleeper corners?

 

I'm a huge proponent of finding another outside corner and moving Fuller inside. We could also just draft a slot CB. Moreland got us killed against Tampa Bay. We might win that game with better play at that spot. Wade is going to fall now, but was a stud in the slot last year and is physical. I wonder how late he goes. 

I'd be a big proponent of giving the Eagles some draft capital in exchange for Darius Slay. They need cap space and they only gave up a 3rd and a 5th to get him. I don't see them moving him at all, never mind in conference, but the move could make big time sense for both sides. 

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I'm sure you draftniks have talked about it. But What do you guys think about Waddle? Is he durable enough for NFL play? He just seems a little slight to me, but he also seems like he has good hands and a gear to make defenses very scared of his speed 

 

His speed is spectacular.  He's a blur and that would be very nice to have as our WR corp is pretty plodding outside of Terry.  But in the mock drafts he tends to get picked before we have a shot at him.  Seems unlikely to fall to our draft slot, and I wouldn't trade up for him given his injury history and lack of collegiate production.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I wonder where Andre Cisco is going to go in the draft after his injury. He has 2 years of eligibility left, so I suppose he could come back. He had 7 INT's as a freshman, 5 as a sophomore, and 1, in two games, before going down with an ACL this year. He is 6'0" and 207 pounds and supposedly runs a 4.33. With that kind of athleticism, paired with ball skills and instincts, he could be a really valuable addition at FS. I wonder if there is any chance he falls to the 3rd. I like him for us better than Paris Ford I think. He's a more natural FS. And we could keep Curl at his more natural spot. 

 

He's a freak athlete, and so is Trill Williams.  Apparently Williams ran a 4.34 and has a 40 inch vert at 6'2.  Perhaps even a little more athletic than Cisco and he's bigger.

 

Cisco is tremendously productive but he is a very frustrating player.  Quintessential feast or famine safety with frustrating film like Delpit.  My instinct is to stay away, but if you can build your scheme around and undisciplined and flawed playmaking safety so as to minimize the impact of his mistakes, then they can be valuable.  It's just tough to build in failsafes for a deep safety who gives up as many deep touchdowns and big chunk passing plays as him.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I know he had two sacks last night but the reality is Payne isn't really a pass rusher and that probably hurts his grades. Real good against the run though.

 

He's not a skilled pass rusher but he is effective because of his freakish athleticism.  He's dominant when he gets matched up with an IOL group that can't handle his athleticism like the dudes from Tampa.  I believe those were reserves and Payne was just tap dancing on them right off of the snap.

 

Jaylen Twyman would be a good IDL to add to the rotation.  He's not the athlete that Payne and Allen are, but he is a tremendously skilled pass rusher.  We could use him on passing downs to bring A and B gap pressure.

[Going Commando]

Cisco is the kind of guy whose career will be make or break based on the coach that gets him.  A tolerant coach could love him.  He gets football people whose jobs aren't really riding on his performance excited because of his truly special playmaking ability.  Some of those plays are next level elite stuff like when LaRon Landry was at his best.  But if he gets a more strict and traditional coach, then he'll get benched and won't play much.

 

I like the ability to turn big plays from a deep safety spot because it's a way a player at the position gets much more involved in games from a position that does a lot of spectating.  Some of those plays can turn the momentum of a game, surely we'd have had a better shot at winning if we'd been able to pick off Brady on Saturday.  But if my job were on the line, I would want someone who can play on a string in the secondary and just take what the offense gives him and not let me and his teammates down.  He would be awesome in Seattle, but I feel like he's not a great fit for us.

Edited January 11, 2021 by stevemcqueen1

[KDawg]

The free safety I really want, maybe more than Ford, is Caden Sterns from Texas. Check him out. He’s awesome.

 

He’d be a major difference maker on our D.

[Skinsinparadise]

We take Slater here.  If Pitts drops to 15 like in this mock, I'd try to trade up. 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

Just a highlight reel but here’s Caden Sterns:

 

 

[Riggo#44]

PFF Mock Draft, moved up to get Lance:

[Anselmheifer]

Is there any good starting LB in the league that is the size of Owusu-Koramoah? He looks like a safety on film, and not like a big safety. He looks like a big CB. 

[PlayAction]

12 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

PFF confirming the eye test that our biggest needs are WR and LB. Surprised Reaves is ranked so high but that's probably due to small sample size.

 

It was impressive to see what TB could do with 2 TEs.  Sprinkle's PFF score (all season) and eye test shows that it's time for an upgrade at TE either through free agency or the draft.  If Logan Thomas is out at any point then TE might jump to the top of the list of needs.

 

I agree that  WR and LB are a must and there will be many "wants' in the draft.  The draft is such a crap shoot though.  It doesn't make sense to make a major reach for a position of need.    

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, PlayAction said:

 

It was impressive to see what TB could do with 2 TEs.  Sprinkle's PFF score (all season) and eye test shows that it's time for an upgrade at TE either through free agency or the draft.  If Logan Thomas is out at any point then TE might jump to the top of the list of needs.

 

I agree that  WR and LB are a must and there will be many "wants' in the draft.  The draft is such a crap shoot though.  It doesn't make sense to make a major reach for a position of need.    

Yeah the Browns too also use multi TE sets with Hooper and Njoku. Gotta have two good ones nowadays like back when we had Reed and Davis(and hell even Cooley and Fred Davis weren't the worst duo ever).

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Is there any good starting LB in the league that is the size of Owusu-Koramoah? He looks like a safety on film, and not like a big safety. He looks like a big CB. 

Darius Leonard is 215.

 

They are just about the same size. Leonard, however, is a proven NFL guy. But with the nickel I’m not concerned with him at 216... as long as he can shed blocks.

[Redskin21502]

Just getting back from a week in Vegas so I haven't caught up on this thread yet. I just want to say "Zaven Collins me at 19". Perfect culture fit and fits a need.