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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They only offered 1 year guaranteed?  I know about the 23 million per year part of offer.  And I've heard different beat guys say they heard they really really wanted Cooper bad. 


Pretty sure it was reported we offered 5/110 but only 23mil gtd. I recall reading that after the event. Can’t vouch that is true though, but I do believe that was reported.

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2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


Pretty sure it was reported we offered 5/110 but only 23mil gtd. I recall reading that after the event. Can’t vouch that is true though, but I do believe that was reported.

 

OK, thanks,  just searched it, couldn't find it one way or another.  I guess what makes me pause some is if they really wanted him badly (which Keim among others reported), its odd that they offered just one year guaranteed money.  I agree they'd have no shot with so little guaranteed money. 

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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

DJ just posting this, Fields does look some like L. Jackson here. 


He’ll end up at #1 at this rate.

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15 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


He’ll end up at #1 at this rate.

 

He might.  I admit I didn't really focus hard on him last year.   But the QB coach who worked with him who was on Keim's podcast was infatuated with him -- then seeing ditto the PFF guys.  I gather he can give Lawrence a fight for the top spot.  If the QB coach is right and the dude runs in the 4.3's, that's insane for a QB. 

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15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

DJ just posting this, Fields does look some like L. Jackson here. 

 

Not to my eye. Big, strong and fast, but not the Mike Vick kind of balance and cutting and elusiveness. 

 

 

 

I am starting to come around on Ja'Marr Chase. Your point about liking guys that look like they are in video games rung true with me. Some guys are just born players. I actually don't think Chase separates as well as some other guys. And I don't think he's going to run a sub 4.4. And he isn't huge. He's just really good and hyper aggressive. It seems like he always wins, even when he is covered. He just sees things at a different speed and has the hand eye and the strength to make plays. 

 

I still kind of hate taking a WR in the top 5. You can find WR's all through the draft. It's so hard to find an elite OT outside the first. Put another way, Chase might move the needle more in terms of wins than even a guy like Sewell, but an elite OT is a scarcer resource. I think if we build an elite OL, we should be able to find playmakers in most draft and FA classes. 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Not to my eye. Big, strong and fast, but not the Mike Vick kind of balance and cutting and elusiveness. 

 

 

Don't know about Vick.  But he has some elusiveness watching some of these runs in the mix.  RG3 was mostly straight line.  If Fields runs in the 4.3's he's faster than RG3.  A dude who can run in the 4'3's (if it's true) with some wiggle can be dangerous. 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I am starting to come around on Ja'Marr Chase. Your point about liking guys that look like they are in video games rung true with me. Some guys are just born players. I actually don't think Chase separates as well as some other guys. And I don't think he's going to run a sub 4.4. And he isn't huge. He's just really good and hyper aggressive. It seems like he always wins, even when he is covered. He just sees things at a different speed and has the hand eye and the strength to make plays. 

 

I still kind of hate taking a WR in the top 5. You can find WR's all through the draft. It's so hard to find an elite OT outside the first. Put another way, Chase might move the needle more in terms of wins than even a guy like Sewell, but an elite OT is a scarcer resource. I think if we build an elite OL, we should be able to find playmakers in most draft and FA classes. 

 

 

I am all in on Sewell.  For me he's the Chase Young of the 2021 draft.   

 

There are other receivers I like in this draft especially the two Alabama receivers, I was a big cheerleader for D. Smith during the last college season.  I like Ross, too.

 

I haven't really studied any of the receivers yet but i am a fan of certain ones I've paid attention to during the season.   I trust my instincts though the most when I fall for a playmaker in real time during the season.  I recall loving D. Cook as an example.  He seem to have great contact balance and elusiveness and you didn't have to think too hard about it.   Guice did it for me the same way.  Among other players.

 

I just recall watching J. Chase during the season and just having that same feeling, like the dude is unstoppable.    I loved for example Ceedee Lamb in the last draft and had some wow moments watching him but it wasn't quite the same as my take on J. Chase.  But maybe my mind changes some when I watch him closely.  Usually though I fall harder at that point for guys I loved in real time.

 

I recall with Chase Young, falling for him in real time, like many of us here.  But then I sat down and studied him and was just blown away even more.  I recall posting right after watching him closely -- if we can land that dude, he's the best player I think we can get.  That was before the hype on him got out of control but it was building then. 

 

I am far from always right.  But for me I trust my instincts the most when I am wowed.  Few players in a draft typically wow me. J. Chase did that in real time when watching him last year.  I saw him a bunch of times on my rewatches of LSU games last year and it was tough for me to keep my eyes off of him.  

 

@stevemcqueen1 mentioned recently the power of that LSU-Alabama game.  I agree.  I probably watched that game about 10 times leading up to the draft because I kept watching different prospects who played in it. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know about Vick.  But he has some elusiveness watching some of these runs in the mix.  RG3 was mostly straight line.  If Fields runs in the 4.3's he's faster than RG3.  A dude who can run in the 4'3's (if it's true) with some wiggle can be dangerous. 

 

 

 

Having a guy you can design some runs for, or that can escape for a big gain on 3rd down can be game breaking. we are going to be in a pickle if we are choosing 2nd and Haskins looks ok but not great. I'd rather have Lawrence than Sewell, but would rather have Sewell than Fields. At this point at least. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Having a guy you can design some runs for, or that can escape for a big gain on 3rd down can be game breaking. we are going to be in a pickle if we are choosing 2nd and Haskins looks ok but not great. I'd rather have Lawrence than Sewell, but would rather have Sewell than Fields. At this point at least. 

 

 

 

 

 

For me it all depends on how Haskins plays.  If he looks like a top 10 QB then we are clearly fine.  If we got doubts and Lawrence and or Fields look like studs and we can land one, then take the dude.

 

One thing I agree with the PFF guys about among other things is keep fishing for that franchise QB until you find that guy.  Franchise QB trumps any spot on the field and it's not close. 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I'm not has high on Fields as the consensus.  Some of his rushing highlights were sepctacular, but I was disappointed when I watched him given the expectations I had going in due to his numbers.  Haskins was better as a sophomore than him.  I don't necessarily think Fields should be coming out after this season unless he shows a lot of development as a passer.  He's definitely not as good as Jackson was as a passer (or runner) when he came out.  I think he'd actually be more of a late first or second round pick of he looks the same as he did last season, rather than a top five pick.

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14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am all in on Sewell.  For me he's the Chase Young of the 2021 draft.   

 

I agree with this. How much does an elite LT move the needle for us though. I guess history is littered with great positional players, but I feel like there have been a lot of Joe Thomas typer OT's over the years that never seemed to move the needle very much for their team. And I worry that the spread passing attack and shotgun formations have lessened the impact to some degree of having a great LT. I guess I'm saying that while I'd definitely take Sewell over anybody next year, the gulf isn't as wide between him and Ja'Marr Chase as I might have thought it to be previously. 

 

Draft resource allocation is so interesting to me. There have to be tons of great analytics as to when to take guys based on positional scarcity and likelihood of hitting on a positional choice in any given round. 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'm not has high on Fields as the consensus.  Some of his rushing highlights were sepctacular, but I was disappointed when I watched him given the expectations I had going in due to his numbers.  Haskins was better as a sophomore than him.  I don't necessarily think Fields should be coming out after this season unless he shows a lot of development as a passer.  He's definitely not as good as Jackson was as a passer (or runner) when he came out.  I think he'd actually be more of a late first or second round pick of he looks the same as he did last season, rather than a top five pick.

 

For me I haven't paid that close attention but tough not to notice the hype about him.  I recall posting last college season just like you are here that I am not as blown away as some are but I also really haven't bothered to study him, yet. 

 

37 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I agree with this. How much does an elite LT move the needle for us though. I guess history is littered with great positional players, but I feel like there have been a lot of Joe Thomas typer OT's over the years that never seemed to move the needle very much for their team. And I worry that the spread passing attack and shotgun formations have lessened the impact to some degree of having a great LT. I guess I'm saying that while I'd definitely take Sewell over anybody next year, the gulf isn't as wide between him and Ja'Marr Chase as I might have thought it to be previously. 

 

It's a quandary.  This team has had mostly stellar LT play for a long time -- Chris Samuels and then Trent and still haven't won.  I don't think any position is critical compared to a QB.  Gibbs' teams in his 2nd stint had good O lines still (although not as good as the Hogs) but didn't have the QB.

 

Sewell seems to be an elite pass blocker and run blocker.  It's not that I think he alone makes a major impact.  But if we can build a good O line I do think we are developing so many other spots that I think it could go a long way.  I think we are a TE, CB a MLB and maybe two O lineman from being really good. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me I haven't paid that close attention but tough not to notice the hype about him.  I recall posting last college season just like you are here that I am not as blown away as some are but I also really haven't bothered to study him, yet. 

 

 

It's a quandary.  This team has had mostly stellar LT play for a long time -- Chris Samuels and then Trent and still haven't won.  I don't think any position is critical compared to a QB.  Gibbs' teams in his 2nd stint had good O lines still (although not as good as the Hogs) but didn't have the QB.

 

Sewell seems to be an elite pass blocker and run blocker.  It's not that I think he alone makes a major impact.  But if we can build a good O line I do think we are developing so many other spots that I think it could go a long way.  I think we are a TE, CB a MLB and maybe two O lineman from being really good. 

 

In fairness to the Trent Williams and Chris Samuels discussion, we had some very good offenses behind Trent Williams. With RG3 for a while and then with Cousins. Chris Samuels also anchored some good offenses, especially considering he never really had a QB. 

 

I think I'd rather have a super blue chip CB than OT, but you take whatever super blue chip guy is there. 

 

I wonder what Devonta Smith's bust risk is. He is so slightly built. I could see him struggling against physical coverage. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I wonder what Devonta Smith's bust risk is. He is so slightly built. I could see him struggling against physical coverage. 

 

Yep as I've mentioned before he needs to put on at least 20 pounds.  I've seen him relatively up close in multiple games live, and he looks thin as a rail.  Looks like Paul Richardson.

 

If he does it, I think he's a keeper.  Better hands IMO than Jeudy and Ruggs.  He can separate at least at the college level.  He's a gamer and plays big in big games.  

 

Jaylen Waddle could put on 10 pounds, too.    

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

In fairness to the Trent Williams and Chris Samuels discussion, we had some very good offenses behind Trent Williams. With RG3 for a while and then with Cousins. Chris Samuels also anchored some good offenses, especially considering he never really had a QB. 

 

They could also run the ball well at times with those offenses.     Sewell to me is like Q. Nelson level good as a run blocker and IMO potentially better than Trent and Samuels on that count. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep as I've mentioned before he needs to put on at least 20 pounds.  I've seen him relatively up close in multiple games live, and he looks thin as a rail.  Looks like Paul Richardson.

 

If he does it, I think he's a keeper.  Better hands IMO than Jeudy and Ruggs.  He can separate at least at the college level.  He's a gamer and plays big in big games.  

 

Jaylen Waddle could put on 10 pounds, too.    

 

They could also run the ball well at times with those offenses.     Sewell to me is like Q. Nelson level good as a run blocker and IMO potentially better than Trent and Samuels on that count. 

 

I hve such a poor feel for Jaylen Waddle. I real idea at all what to expect out of him at a pro level. Is he a small fast quick gadget guy? Is he Tyreek Hill lite? No idea. Devonta Smith at least I feel could be a 40-50 catch take the top off the defense kind of guy even if he is a relative bust. 


Sewell is definitely an awesome run blocker. It would be great if Charles pans out we could move him to the right and we have bookend tackles like Samuels and Jansen again. Sign a WR and TE and the offense is in business. 

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Agree with SIP.  Sewell is the most dominant run blocker I've seen at the college level.  Especially for a teenager and especially for an OT.

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4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I hve such a poor feel for Jaylen Waddle. I real idea at all what to expect out of him at a pro level. Is he a small fast quick gadget guy? Is he Tyreek Hill lite? No idea. Devonta Smith at least I feel could be a 40-50 catch take the top off the defense kind of guy even if he is a relative bust. 

 

 

Smith is a keeper IMO but yeah I got concerns about his size/physique.  I like players who play big in big games and Smith arguably last year was that guy for Alabama.  He arguably was Tua's crutch in tight spots even more so than Jeudy. 

 

As for Waddle, I am guessing maybe he steps in the Ruggs role, playing Z?   Might be better suited for the slot though in Jeudy's old role.  D. Smith mostly played X.   Waddle is a burner.  Fun watch as a returner.  But I admit I need to see it play out for him in a featured role.  He's talented so wouldn't surprise me if he plays very well in a more featured role than the past.   i want to see how good he is at tracking the deep ball.  

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The projection is for Waddle to be the starting slot: https://247sports.com/college/alabama/LongFormArticle/Alabama-Football-2020-Projected-Depth-Chart-Offense-Mac-Jones-Bryce-Young-Najee-Harris-DeVonta-Smith-Jaylen-Waddle-Alex-Leatherwood-142466575/#142466575_4

 

They call their slot receiver an H and it's a prominent role in their offense.  People think he'll be the number 2 guy in their passing game if we have a 2020 season.

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I am correcting myself. I could totally see Waddle working in a Turner offense that is focused on getting the ball to playmakers and letting them make plays. 


Also, same thought regarding Sewell. Having that road grading LT that is also a great pass blocker would be great for a Haskins Turner offense that is going to heavily feature play action. 

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On 5/24/2020 at 12:28 AM, nonniey said:

Sewell can't declare for the supplemental draft, he is not eligible. 

Irrelevant anyway as Sewell is not eligible for the supplemental draft.  And BTW a player that actually is eligible to enter the league this year can't just declare he's entering the draft (he has to lose his college eligibility to qualify).

 

 

Right --- That's been established but there was an article posted here discussing whether PAC-12 players could be exempted into qualifying for the supplemental this year (even if not qualified for 2020 draft) due to potential delay/cancellation of Pac-12 2020 season. Sewell was discussed.

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Posted (edited)

I will say again, I am a Lance homer. But I simply do not understand how one year of production at NDSU can possibly put you over Fields or Lawrence at this point. Seems crazy to me. If he does it again in 2020 then let's discuss it, but I feel like he's being overhyped at this point.

 

Literally nobody knew who Lance was 7-8 months ago and now he's better than Lawrence? Idk man. QB3 absolutely. I would definitely consider drafting him in the Top 5 or Top 10... maybe ahead of Fields, but hard to think he's better than Trevor Lawrence.

 

Lance also did it as a r-Freshman last year. He's super young. There's no guarantee he enters after 2020 ... it would actually shock me if he did, but I guess if he's hyped up as a Top 5 pick I guess he has to strongly consider leaving school 2 years early.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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