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Welcome to the Redskins Antonio Gandy-Golden, WR Liberty


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9 hours ago, CurseReversed said:

This guy never had an accurate or strong arm qb or and offense that did much to scheme him open.  He was a one man wrecking crew that just ran down the field and took the ball over everyone and anyone.

When he gets the benefit of a modern offense, a qb with arm strength, and a chance to fly under the radar a bit,  he is going to really surprise some folks.

 

High hopes for him.  HTTR. 

Soooooo....he's Josh Doctson until further notice....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JK. Excited for this dude.

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On 5/14/2020 at 7:07 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The good news is that he can win strong outside leverage and get a couple of steps on vertical routes and he's got the talent to adjust to the ball and lay out for throws.  Corners aren't going to be able to just sit on all the underneath stuff with him, he's a legitimate deep threat.  That's a very real concern with guys who don't run fast.

 

He's got size too.  He walls you off from the ball, especially on low routes and hitches/comebacks.  His catch radius is high end and once he gets a rhythm with his qb and gets stronger, he'll be able to lean on a db and just pluck back shoulder bucket throws and field side low and away stuff.

 

The bad news is it looks like he really struggles with physicality through the stem.  And he had a hard time getting a good release and winning inside leverage against decent press coverage.  He's not that explosive or tricky off the line, and he needs to gather himself up a little to redirect.  And his play strength doesn't match his size yet.  This is where the tough transition from his lower level of competition really shows up.  But you're right, he is twitchier than he looks.  He exploded out of some of those breaks and he's got some nice tricks for selling a deep break to DBs that should get him open quickly enough to be useful in the intermediate game.

 

If he can get strong and get better at dealing with physical bump and run coverage, he could get good.  The catch radius and talent for adjusting to downfield throws and the strong vertical element to his game are the foundation for a good outside receiver.  It also helps him to be a #2 (at best) who isn't going to see a lot of shaded safety zones.  I think he's basically just going to get single coverage while McLaurin is out there.  And it will help him that Haskins is an instinctive thrower who will work with you on adjustments to exploit leverage issues that show up post-snap and place the ball at the adjustment you need to make.  He's got a good chance to be productive here, this is a good situation for him.

I found it hard to judge his ability to handle press coverage and physicality because the refs really let guys hang all over him in most of his games. I think that they let a lot more PI calls go in these small school games. Especially with a man among boys like GG out there you can imagine why they would feel comfortable looking other way when some small school DB starts grabbing at him.      This is one of the reasons I think he projects better then one might think looking at his play.  He really was in a different environment than most of other prospects.  It is going to be interesting to see how NFL CB's match up without being able hold and grab him.

 

I think they are going to find that he is a monster trained in the pits.

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I’ve never been big on possession receivers, but I’m not against having one if the offense moves.  I didn’t see anything in Golden’s highlights that excites me though.

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8 hours ago, Captain James said:

Soooooo....he's Josh Doctson until further notice....

JK. Excited for this dude.

I mean that's pretty much what he is right now.

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22 hours ago, Vanguard said:

I’ve never been big on possession receivers, but I’m not against having one if the offense moves.  I didn’t see anything in Golden’s highlights that excites me though.

He does appear to have run after catch ability. He is similar to Harmon so you will have to put up with 2 big possession receivers.

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8 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

That helps confirm his rookie year production potential of likely having to be thrown open, but with the ability to make those tough catches.

 

Amazing catch though.


Totally based off highlight clips, but it seems he has some above average short area quickness that will hopefully aid him in being a legitimate threat on slants, complimenting other areas of his game. If he can consistently win on a slant route (use his size and hands), then it can enhance other areas in the route tree, especially with his below average top end speed. 

Edited by wit33
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On 5/26/2020 at 9:10 AM, Captain James said:

Soooooo....he's Josh Doctson until further notice....

 

well, if Docston had been a 4th rounder, I'd have been happy with him.

 

 

 

 

 

JK. Excited for this dude.

 

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We all want AGG to hit, of course. He was a 4th rounder, joining McLaurin as a 3rd rounder last year. Sims was an UDFA but I’m barely even considering him in what I say next, because three breakout WR talents drafted with non-premium picks seems tough to expect and tough to find a precedent for (though every situation is unique and I’m rooting for all three).

 

The point of this post: how many teams in recent memory have hit on multiple mid-round or later WR talents that became their starters on rookie contracts, in quick succession? It’s pretty rare imo, and though it holds no bearing over whether AGG follows in McLaurin’s footsteps or not, as there’s obviously no correlation, it’s still interesting to think about. The list I came up with:

 

1. PIT hit on Emmanuel Sanders in the 3rd and AB in the 6th, a couple years apart.

 

2. MIN hit on Diggs in the 5th and Theilen as an UDFA in close succession, though it took a while for Theilen to develop and break out.

 

3. SEA hit on Lockett in the 3rd after developing Baldwin as an UDFA a few years earlier. 
 

Aaand that’s about it in terms of teams that, in fairly close succession (aka on the same roster within a few years and starting together) filled their WR1 and WR2 spot with prospects drafted in the mid rounds or later, including UDFA. Obviously if you start including 2nd rounders which I’m not for good reason the results skyrocket, I consider those premium picks though and they don’t apply for this thought exercise. 
 

You could even argue it’s even rarer than this, as it took years for Lockett to stay healthy enough to really break out and Baldwin was almost done by then, though he always flashed. Same with AB, they gave him the contract they offered to Sanders that he rejected before hitting FA the first time, and THEN AB broke out—he was still mostly potential when Sanders was actually playing for PIT, and in the years after that PIT has continued to uphold their reputation for drafting pretty well at WR, but by using picks that count as premium assets mostly, until this past year when they clearly hit on Deonte Johnson in the early 3rd. If they’re proven to have also hit on James Washington in the 3rd a year earlier as well (jury is still very much out), then that becomes another example for this post even if you ignore the JuJu in the 2nd hit. 
 

So the only obvious parallel becomes MIN, but in reality it took years for Theilen to break out and he only shared the starting spot opposite Diggs for two seasons before Diggs himself was traded. 
 

So all that is to say, if AGG has a great rookie season or even breaks out next year as a starter across from McLaurin...That will be a pretty uniquely successful usage of non-premium assets (and no FA) to find good, young starting WRs in the recent history of the NFL. Pretty unprecedented actually, and that’s not even taking into account the  development Sims could undergo. 
 

So don’t get your hopes up (and it would probably require Haskins to actually be a top-12 talent at QB, though not necessarily) as it’s a long shot, but it would give us a bit of an advantage in terms of cap space spent on playmakers at WR for the foreseeable future. And showcase a real strength of our scouting department, if it happens.

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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I see a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald when I watch the highlights of AGG.  I know he has yet to play a down in the NFL but I think that's what we got in him if he stays healthy.  Just a hunch.  :) 

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This is the closest for our team history and I'd argue it doesn't count as it's just super weird since it's the 1984 supplemental draft and not the regular NFL draft.

 

2nd round, Gary Clark by Redskins

1st round, Ricky Sanders by Patriots

 

But Sanders didn't come over immediately.  So the Redskins traded a normal 3rd rounder to the Patriots for the draft rights to Sanders.

 

2nd round (of a weird 3 round one-time draft), and one normal 3rd rounder used in back to back years.

 

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2 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

Remember Sheehan with secondhand remarks about this weeks ago....based on the data, it seems dumb to spend high draft picks on wr


2nd-3rd rounds are generally the sweet spot. 1st round WRs bust at an inordinate rate and 4th round and lower players hit at an abysmal rate over the whole sample size (plenty of individual examples obviously).

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:


2nd-3rd rounds are generally the sweet spot. 1st round WRs bust at an inordinate rate and 4th round and lower players hit at an abysmal rate over the whole sample size (plenty of individual examples obviously).

 

Definitely.  Day 2 is the sweet spot.  They still bust frequently, but the risk-reward is better there.  It is rare for a non-off-field issue day 3 WR to hit, UDFA's are more likely.

 

Tyreek Hill was a Day 3 hit, but he fell because he beat up his pregnant girlfriend.

 

I think for the Day 3 WR's who didn't fall due to off field drama, Jamison Crowder is the 4th best over the past decade.  Then there's a big drop off after Crowder too.

 

That's a lot of WR's drafted in Day 3 who fail.  Almost all of them don't amount to much.

 

AGG does have one positive though, it can be argued that in a normal WR class, he'd have gone in the 3rd round.  Cause the 2020 class was surprisingly deep.

Edited by Alcoholic Zebra
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If he pans out, it's not just a credit to another late-round find.

But between him and Crowder, coming from Duke and Liberty, neither of which is known for churning out NFL players, that's a couple of nice finds, with some quality scouting.

 

In a 50 year span, since Liberty opened in 1971 , only 8 players from Liberty have been drafted by the NFL.

 

 

Golden.jpg

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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Im very high on AGG maybe its rooting for a guy from a small school but from an attribute standpoint he has it all. It depends on whether he can pick up the NFL game and how long that takes. Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown all took a couple years to hit so I don’t expect AGG to be a huge contributor this year but definitely down the road. From what I know he’s very intelligent which will help. 

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17 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Im very high on AGG maybe its rooting for a guy from a small school but from an attribute standpoint he has it all. It depends on whether he can pick up the NFL game and how long that takes. Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown all took a couple years to hit so I don’t expect AGG to be a huge contributor this year but definitely down the road. From what I know he’s very intelligent which will help. 


 

Get where you’re going with this, but just for accuracy’s sake—Jerry Rice was named NFC offensive rookie of the year with 49/927 and almost 19 YPC. Then his second season he went 86/1570/15 TD’s. Those yards and TD numbers led the NFL...as a second year player! Insane. A lot of studs would have fit your criteria but Rice as it happens does not lol, he was a freak from the jump.

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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11 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:


 

Get where you’re going with this, but just for accuracy’s sake—Jerry Rice was named NFC offensive rookie of the year with 49/927 and almost 19 YPC. Then his second season he went 86/1570/15 TD’s. Those yards and TD numbers led the NFL...as a second year player! Insane. A lot of studs would have fit your criteria but Rice as it happens does not lol, he was a freak from the jump.

 

Thanks for this. I too didn't recall Rice taking a few years to develop but I was too lazy to look it up.

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5 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Thanks for this. I too didn't recall Rice taking a few years to develop but I was too lazy to look it up.

Rice took almost no time to develop.  In his rookie year, he was third on the team in receptions and averaged almost 19 yards per catch.  Remember, this was for a team that went to the SB the year before so already had its starting WR pair (albeit Solomon was old and Clark was in his late prime) and threw a lot to its RB anyway.  In his second year, he was all-pro, was statistically the best WR in the NFL and only had a few better seasons.

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