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Update - 3/11/21 - America Rescue Plan Bill is signed!


goskins10

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17 minutes ago, clietas said:

The rich will most likely be even more wealthy after all this. 

 

 

I was telling my friend that earlier.... usually the rich do pretty well in these cases.

 

I think about 2017/2018 is when the people at the bottom of the economy when the 2008 collapse hit just got back to where they were when it happened. So for all the 'economy is better' news of the last 10ish years, it took those people 10 years just to break even.

 

Which is a whole 'nother issue in all of this.

Edited by tshile
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1 minute ago, tshile said:

 

I was telling my friend that earlier.... usually the rich do pretty well in these cases.

 

I think about 2017/2018 is when the people at the bottom of the economy when the 2008 collapse hit just got back to where they were when it happened. So for all the 'economy is better' news of the last 10ish years, it took those people 10 years just to break even.

 

Which is a whole nothing issue in all of this.

 

Article I read back during the Great Recession pointed out that, when crashes like this happen, that "The Rich" always get hit first, and the biggest.  (The stock market cost a lot of The Rich half their net worth.)  

 

But it pointed out that the stock market is also almost always the fastest to recover.  Wages are always the slowest.  

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16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

For me - again the guy who agrees with a true UBI - if you remove the means testing and just give it to everyone, then all these arguments go away. There is nothing fair or unfair. It just is. Everyone gets a check. The additional checks to cover the "rich" pale in comparison to those who would now get a check that needs it and will use it. 

 

There's something to be said for just giving it to everybody.  

 

Less overhead.  Less cheating.  (How do you cheat if everybody gets it?  Try to be two people?)  

 

OK, so Dan Snyder gets $1000 a month.  It's trivial to him.  And he pays more than that in taxes.  The government will take it back.  Raise his taxes by 1%.  

 

I also think @tshile made a good point.  Those Hummers in the food bank line, that started this diversion?  Odds are, they're not in that line unless they needed it.  Let 'em have it.  

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7 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

My point was that if you're paying large car payments and don't have food...

Where are your ****ing priorities? Anyone wanna argue that? 

 

How do you know they're making large car payments?

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22 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

My point was that if you're paying large car payments and don't have food...

Where are your ****ing priorities? Anyone wanna argue that? 

 

Our economy for the most part is built on people spending beyond their means. Some people spend frivolously on cars. Others on electronics. Some on homes. Clothes etc, whatever. And this system works for the most part until there is a large scale financial collapse. There are very few people in this country whose jobs don’t rely on widespread consumer spending, that for the most part is financed by people taking on and living in debt.

 

We can argue the merits of such a system and most would agree that it shouldn’t be this way. But I also don’t see the point in dunking on people for consumer choices that in normal times sustain the jobs of millions of people. We’d probably be living in a shrinking economy if people truly started living within their means.

Edited by No Excuses
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2 hours ago, twa said:

If the latest stimulus gets passed this essential worker is shutting down to pursue my drinking hobby and spend more time with ya'll 

 

You're shoveling here 24 hours a day already.  Try threatening us with something believable.  :) 

Edited by Larry
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10 minutes ago, twa said:

If the latest stimulus gets passed this essential worker is shutting down to pursue my drinking hobby and spend more time with ya'll 

 

Good.

 

That should have been the whole point from the start.

 

People need to feel comfortable putting life on pause and staying home so this doesn't get worse. This is how you do it.

 

Yeah, there's a price to pay for it. There's a price for every decision we make. Would you rather pay in the form of debt? Or lives? Or what about both, cause if we don't do things right we could wind up with an economy in shambles we have to pay to fix and a lot of dead people?

 

I'd rather us take on the debt.

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2 hours ago, skinsmarydu said:

I have a concern

What I'm upset about is the cars in food lines. Anyone seen this? They're Hummers, Cadillacs, things that have at least $300/monthly payments. I own 2 vehicles, the newest is an 04 Canyon. Haven't had a car payment in almost 20 years. 

I'm sorry, you better give up your badass ride for food. 

I've never understood why people would ever want a car payment. If its a small one for a used car, then ok, I get that. I just don't get why you would want to pay several hundred dollars a month over the course of a generation.

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I've never understood why people would ever want a kid. If its a small one for menial labor then ok, I get that. I just don't get why you would want to pay several hundred thousand dollars over the course of a generation.

 

back on topic...still locked out of my ssn on the irs eip tracker and its been 24+ hrs. 

Edited by The Evil Genius
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6 minutes ago, twa said:

 

 you gloss over essential

 

Given the way most people are using the term essential, yeah, i glossed over it.

 

out of all the people I know that have claimed their essential, probably 10% of them are actually essential...

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3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So what should I be doing with my stimulus money?  Put towards a new truck?  A new iMac?  Towards bills?  Savings?  What makes it the most useful?

 

burning it is the worst thing you can do

saving it is the next worst thing, for the economy, but in my mind if your job is up in the air then you need to save it until you feel better about things.

 

after that i don't think it matters. spending it so someone else has cash flow coming in can do something with it is what its all about. spending it on something you wouldn't otherwise have is the best thing for the economy, but theoretically if you spend it on bills you're probably likely to spend more money elsewhere. hence the fungible thing talked about earlier.

 

if there's not something you always wanted that's out there, then redirect it to places you like to frequent. put money in the hands of businesses you think have treated you well and deserve the help.

 

i don't know if now is a good time to get a truck or not. gas is cheap and thats normally bad but i gotta think they're dying to move some vehicles right now...

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6 hours ago, skinsmarydu said:

I have a concern

What I'm upset about is the cars in food lines. Anyone seen this? They're Hummers, Cadillacs, things that have at least $300/monthly payments. I own 2 vehicles, the newest is an 04 Canyon. Haven't had a car payment in almost 20 years. 

I'm sorry, you better give up your badass ride for food. 

Blame the victim?

 

Also, how do you get rid of a car when 22 million people file for unemployment?

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My point is simple. This thing happened quick and no one had anyway to plan for it.

 

I am also not sure how we can blame people for their spending when the government has given nearly $10 trillion to corporations since December who haven't cared about saving money and spend even more reckless.

 

I thought we were over that "personal responsibility" stuff with this crisis, but Americans don't learn. :( 

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I think, they should have signed a mortgage and rent freeze when they signed the stimulus.  Give people money for security and don’t make them pay their biggest expense (usually) until after the “economy is restarted”.

 

I don’t know why this isn’t feasible.

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16 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I think, they should have signed a mortgage and rent freeze when they signed the stimulus.  Give people money for security and don’t make them pay their biggest expense (usually) until after the “economy is restarted”.

 

I don’t know why this isn’t feasible.

 

I don;t think they legally can, they can stop evictions(and many places have)

 

they have made money easier to borrow, and most will probably be open to negotiation if in good standing.

 

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