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Update - 3/11/21 - America Rescue Plan Bill is signed!

goskins10

By goskins10
in The Tailgate

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted
On 5/2/2020 at 6:12 PM, TheGreatBuzz said:

Isn't just printing money a bad thing?  If not, why haven't we done it already to pay down the debt?

 

In theory, "we" print money by the government borrowing (from the Fed) where the Fed actually prints the money.

 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/03/25/where-is-the-u-s-government-getting-all-the-money-its-spending-in-the-coronavirus-crisis/

 

"The Federal Reserve can and does create money, and it can and does use that money to buy government bonds. That’s what the Fed did during the Great Recession of 2007-09, and that’s what it is doing now. To be precise, the Fed isn’t giving money directly to the Treasury. The Fed is, in effect, buying government IOUs (Treasury bonds) from private investors or foreign governments who have lent money to the Treasury."

 

So the US government issues bonds and securities, and the Fed prints money to buy them.

 

So given how things work now, technically, no we can't print our way out of our debt, and in fact, printing increases the debt.  (now, the Fed gives any interest they collect back to the government so at some level we are taking a no interest loan from ourselves).  In fact, given how the system works now printing more money rises the deficit.

 

Historically, printing more money (and raising the deficit and debt in the process) has been considered bad for two reasons:

1.  External excess capital will flow to US securities that have to be created to finance the printing of more money.  That means less capital for loans to companies and individuals, which means high interest rates.

 

2.  Inflation will increase.  More money without an increase in production means that people pay more for goods.

 

Over the last 30 years or so, those two things haven't happened (at least if you measure inflation by CPI).  We've printed a lot of money and increased the debt by large amounts and during that time interest rates and inflation (as measured by CPI) have remained low.

 

Printing money might be bad, but the situation (at least today) appears to be more nuanced than previously believed.

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TheGreatBuzz

TheGreatBuzz

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ShredSkins said:

Lol nice! mine allegedly gets deposited wednesday. I've got my eye on Gibson Les Paul for sale locally. Considering I've had to work through this whole thing (security) I'm definately treating myself.

I had a particular gun I was going to buy.  Now that I'm ready, that **** is out of stock everywhere. 

 

23 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Printing money might be bad, but the situation (at least today) appears to be more nuanced than previously believed.

So I admit I don't know crap about economics but at some point all these bonds, securities, debt, etc, will have to be paid.  It seems to me the only reason the we can create money is because people have faith in it and no one wants to admit that it isn't "real".  And they know if they admit the dollar isn't based on something tangible and therefore doesn't have real "value", they know the world economy would crash.  So we all ignore the elephant in the room.  But that can't last forever. 

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tshile

tshile

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Posted
4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

no one wants to admit that it isn't "real".  And they know if they admit the dollar isn't based on something tangible and therefore doesn't have real "value", they know the world economy would crash.  So we all ignore the elephant in the room.  But that can't last forever. 


not really. We know it isn’t real in the aspect that it’s not backed by gold (or whatever) but that’s by design... backing it by gold severely limits what we can do. 
 

but yeah we’re a fiat currency and no one is  hiding it. it’s by design. 
 

 

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Supernatural24

Supernatural24

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Good question.  I guess this is where my limited knowledge really shows.  Just seems like printing money is based on nothing but hopes and dreams.  And those only get you so far.

The American economy has done this for 50 years. At a certain point, you have to accept that this is it.

 

On top of that, who gon check us, boo? We are worried about debt with China, but would China want us to pay off that debt? And we have a scary military. That is why MMT is gaining popularity.

 

I am sure others know more about this than me.

22 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Stimulus Proposal: $2,000 Payment Plus $1,000 Per Month Until 1 Year After Crisis Ends

 

 

😐

 

I feel like the government knows something is about to happen...

This is the Jayapal/Tailb proposal. Pelosi doesn't want it, let alone McConnell.

Edited by Supernatural24
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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Stimulus Proposal: $2,000 Payment Plus $1,000 Per Month Until 1 Year After Crisis Ends

 

 

😐

 

I feel like the government knows something is about to happen...

This is never happening.

 

Then again, a bunch of stuff I thought would never happen has happened of late.

 

But everyone's pretending everything is swell again in 'opened up' areas.

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

I feel like the government knows something is about to happen...

Eh, there are people who were calling for this from the jump

(myself included)

 

well, i wasn’t for making it a year, just however long things are shut down. 
 

I think it’s more about people realizing how bad the economy is/will be hurt and weighing options and the cost of them all

 

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Jumbo

Jumbo

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Something about you is familiar.

 

yes, it's another of the "needs to get a life group" doing their lameass internet political shtick with multiple attempts now at dupe accts

 

if it's not cuz he's being paid for posting when he succeeds in doing so wherever he does, then it's a fairly pathetic level of behavior for someone who poses so superwoke and strives to appear intelligent

 

like the saying goes, assklown, get a life

 

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goskins10

goskins10

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Posted
2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Stimulus Proposal: $2,000 Payment Plus $1,000 Per Month Until 1 Year After Crisis Ends

 

😐

 

I feel like the government knows something is about to happen...

 

This is much closer to a UBI that many of us advocated from the beginning. The hope is this time they will either remove (my first choice) or greatly loosen the means testing. Something like everyone making less than $100k or married under $200K regardless if you filed taxes or not. $1000/mon is not paying anyones bills enough to not work. But it will give people something to count on so maybe they can make that move up they were scared to make. Or buy that house they were afraid to buy. Or get a nicer car to makew sure they get to work or get the one they have fixed. It all goes back to the economy and drives need. And those who didn't file or had no taxable income, this will go right back into the economy. They are living day to day not week to week. 

 

It will never happen. Corporate America likes it where it is - most people indentured servants. And since they own both the dems and reps it's unlikely anything truly helpful to American wrokers gets passed. Another menial token like they just did and then expect everyone to be ever so grateful! 

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Good question.  I guess this is where my limited knowledge really shows.  Just seems like printing money is based on nothing but hopes and dreams.  And those only get you so far.

 

Right now, there are some smart economists that are arguing that if we manage things properly, it is sustainable.  There are probably more just as smart that argue it isn't.  I don't honestly claim to know.  I would suggest that even if it is sustainable that doesn't mean that there aren't some negative consequences.   Maybe those can be dealt with too.  

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Ricky Tan

Ricky Tan

Posted
Posted

I need help. I applied for relief via the nonfilers irs site since I did not file in 2019. Everything went through alright but I believe I sent them my wired routing number instead of paper and electronic so I was supposed to already have my stuff but after talking to my bank I think the check went back to them. I am really stressed out about all this because I can't find a good number to contact IRS with. Is there a special corona hotline number anyone can give me so I can find out how to get my money? Please, and tyvm

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The Evil Genius

The Evil Genius

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Ricky Tan said:

I need help. I applied for relief via the nonfilers irs site since I did not file in 2019. Everything went through alright but I believe I sent them my wired routing number instead of paper and electronic so I was supposed to already have my stuff but after talking to my bank I think the check went back to them. I am really stressed out about all this because I can't find a good number to contact IRS with. Is there a special corona hotline number anyone can give me so I can find out how to get my money? Please, and tyvm

 

Thr IRS EIP has a FAQ (sorry acronyms are funny to me) that says that if the banking info is wrong and/or the deposit is returned by the bank, the IRS will mail a paper check to the address that they have on file for you. You likely gave them an address when you gave them the wrong banking info recently.

 

Sorry man. Might be a few weeks or more. 

 

https://www.irs.gov/coronavirus/get-my-payment-frequently-asked-questions

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