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As per NFL.com (and others) Redskins trade with Panthers for Kyle allen (QB)


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Kyle Allen is earning 675k this year. As an ERFA we can pretty much retain his rights for a couple more years at a relatively low cost. Franchise QB he may not be, but as long as Rivera/Turner are here then he is a great fit within our QB stable for all kinds of reasons.

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7 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Kyle Allen is earning 675k this year. As an ERFA we can pretty much retain his rights for a couple more years at a relatively low cost. Franchise QB he may not be, but as long as Rivera/Turner are here then he is a great fit within our QB stable for all kinds of reasons.

 

 

"Where'd you get that QB?"

 

"Well actually, we found him at:

 

dollar-tree-store-2.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

That's all ?

We've almost gotten our money's worth out of him already :)

 

Almost?

 

I think by default, every fan here would give up more than that in cap space if it meant crushing Dallas.  Now that was mostly defense and run game.  But Allen's bomb to McLaurin was nice, as well as consistently targeting Jaylen Smith in coverage.  That's one contract Dallas regrets.

32 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

"Where'd you get that QB?"

 

"Well actually, we found him at:

 

dollar-tree-store-2.jpg

 

I mean, you're not wrong.  But gimme the Dollar Tree QB all day.  Offense can function with him, and he profiles as a quality backup.

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4 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

 

I mean, you're not wrong.  But gimme the Dollar Tree QB all day.  Offense can function with him, and he profiles as a quality backup.

 

Dollar 🌲 QB beats the hell out of whatever Doofus Dan Snyder is after, from all the way back to Jeff George, to the Lion King.

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Is it POSSIBLE that Allen is our QB of the future? Remember, possible means 1% chance. He is only in his second season as a starter and is showing that he can run an offense and has good pocket presence. Can he be coached up and get better to the point where the football team commits to him as the starter? He seems very poised and has good command in the huddle from what I see. The players are responding to him. Here's hoping he has a great final 9 games and leads this team to the division title. He has rejuvenated me at this point and I was starting to give up hope for this season.

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There has been some really good Undrafted FA QB's in the NFL, like Warren Moon, Tony Romo, and Kurt Warner.

So it wouldn't be all that crazy if Allen turned into a starter.

Trent Green was an 8th Rounder, which would be an UDFA in "today's draft".

I'm sure there's more.

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

There has been some really good Undrafted FA QB's in the NFL, like Warren Moon, Tony Romo, and Kurt Warner.

So it wouldn't be all that crazy if Allen turned into a starter.

Trent Green was an 8th Rounder, which would be an UDFA in "today's draft".

I'm sure there's more.

 

Very short list. We have to find a guy fast before our best players start getting paid like it. Not saying Allen aint it.  (we've failed so long it would be nice) Odds though....

And Warren Moon not getting drafted is like Josh Gibson never playing in the mlb.

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4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Is it POSSIBLE that Allen is our QB of the future? Remember, possible means 1% chance. He is only in his second season as a starter and is showing that he can run an offense and has good pocket presence. Can he be coached up and get better to the point where the football team commits to him as the starter? He seems very poised and has good command in the huddle from what I see. The players are responding to him. Here's hoping he has a great final 9 games and leads this team to the division title. He has rejuvenated me at this point and I was starting to give up hope for this season.


One can hope.

 

Hes the direct opposite of poised in the pocket, below average. 

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5 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Is it POSSIBLE that Allen is our QB of the future? Remember, possible means 1% chance. He is only in his second season as a starter and is showing that he can run an offense and has good pocket presence. Can he be coached up and get better to the point where the football team commits to him as the starter? He seems very poised and has good command in the huddle from what I see. The players are responding to him. Here's hoping he has a great final 9 games and leads this team to the division title. He has rejuvenated me at this point and I was starting to give up hope for this season.

 

I don't think it is possible. His arm is much too weak, even he develops otherwise. Some of those throws against Dallas that were completed could've went for way more yardage if he had the arm to get it there in a hurry. Against better teams, some of those throws will give DBs a chance to make a play on the ball.

 

It's too bad he's so limited, because I do like the kid. He's a little crazy. Should be a decent backup, at least.

Edited by SpacePenguin
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5 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Very short list. We have to find a guy fast before our best players start getting paid like it. Not saying Allen aint it.  (we've failed so long it would be nice) Odds though....

 

I think you've got to grade lower round picks (QBs included) on a curve based on opportunities. I mean on one hand its one thing to see them even get an opportunity because it normally means they are out-performing their selection (as is the case with Allen beating out Heinke and Grier) for a backup job. But their actual play either takes an injury to the starter or that starter being benched long term. Then these UDFAs and low round picks have to come in and look somewhat good from the start so as not to get benched immediately.

 

Allen had all these things happen initially and was still traded away. I don't think that if he had been even a 3rd round QB with the season he had last year they'd be letting him go at all. 

 

But taking it away from the QB position and consider Curl. He's a guy who we drafted in the 7th and he's looked good but the best he could do on the depth chart is be a backup to Collins with spot duty. Now sadly for Colling but fortunately for Curl, there was the injury. To Curl's fortune, we didn't sign a veteran S and are instead opting to go with him as the S. So he will get an opportunity to shine or embarrass himself these next few games. I think its the same for Allen. 

 

Unfortunately though, I think some in this fan base will have their minds made up regarding Allen based on outside factors (him being the winner of an Allen vs Haskins competition, him being a coach's favorite, him not taking enough risky passes, him not being safe enough with the ball, etc).

 

Some of this may be true, but I think the one thing he can do to hype up this fan base is show that he has a pretty deep ball. Even if he doesn't have the arm strength of Haskins, if he can connect with TMac and the other WRs we have on a more consistent basis for passes where he throws it more than 30 yards, then I think it will do more than anything else to solidify him going into next year as the starter. Doing things like limiting mistakes and turnovers are something I'd like him to improve on as well, but just doing that will only help people say he's a safe backup or a nice guy to hold the spot until our 'guy' is ready next year. But if he can deliver more deep balls like the one to TMac last week I think it will silence a lot of doubters. 

 

But the other thing is that Allen (like most UDFAs) is used to competition and working his way up a roster. So just because we get a new toy to play with at QB doesn't mean he's done. For all we know that guy may suck and we'll be right back here with Allen beating that guy out too. 

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some interesting comments from the reddit threads I posted: 

 

Quote

7 months ago
Here is the problem with this move and Redskins. The problem is not necessarily Kyle Allen both at Carolina and now with the Skins. Kyle Allen along with Carolina's offensive line, acheived starts and sputters for the 2019 season. Ok, he had a few interceptions and other mental issues reading the defense, but I will bet you dollars to donoughts that it was because he did not have the time to read due to a lousy offensive line. Why am I sure about that? Well the stats are easy to read and add to that the fact that Cam Newton was a regularly injured scrambling quarter back who's legs compensated for a lousy line. So, the problem is every team I have seen in the past that has a running quarterback , eventually creates a lousy o-line for any traditonal QB that comes in and wants to stay in the pocket to pass later. In addtion, most of those great running quarterbacks succumb to a barrage of injuries from their own linemen watching the game instead of blocking on pass protection plays. The Carlina offense was built around Cam Newton then slowly became more and more lousy until he got hurt. Then Kyle Allen came in with a fresh set of legs and determination, but after many trips to the ground over time, I can only imagine that he got gun shy and his reads got worse as a result.

 

So why did I say all of that? Let's turn the page to the Redskins. Every since I can remmember, Dan Snider's Redskins have needed a complete offensive line. They have had pocket quarter backs in the past, but they could not function well behind a one-sided line that cant pass block for ****. What exacerbated that problem was the addition of RGIII. He was good in his first year and susbsequently had an offense built around him, which if you have been paying attention, does what? Run blocks for a running QB who occasionally passed. Since doing this, the Redskins have never recovered and adjusted their offensive line to better protect pocket passers.

 

Now here is the problem, I am now scared about Ron of after this move to acquire Kyle Allen. Ron Rivera comes from a team with the same problem the Skins have in a lousy Oline. He has had a scrambling quarterback to protect his decision making on the o-line for years. That quarterback got hurt and he brought in a new guy who failed miserably after realizing that he was behind a line of whimps and on field game watchers. The ownership for Carolina had enough. Ron got fired, his star young gun he drafted got thrown out the door with him. Then,,,,, to add insult to injury, they drag his favorite old dog (Cam Newton) to the back of the yard and shoot him in the head. These acts alone should drive home to anyone including Dan Synder, that they did not like Ron's philosophy or his players anymore. They may not say that in public, but the way it was handled says that very very clearly.

 

So, Instead of aquiring Cam Newton who is a veteran and has figured out how to work within the very loose boundaries and deficiencies of Ron's offense and a weak Oline, Ron wades deeper into the darkness by rehiring Kyle Allen on a team with the same or worse problems? That sounds like the same bonehead **** Bruce Allen used to do. Cam Newton could have been hired on the cheap to help produce even in what will still be a nightmarish set of deficiencies on the Redskins oline (espcially now that Trent Williams has recently announced that he wants to be traded). Also, before anyone says it, no Cam Newton would not have been a threat to Haskins. Just like Alex Smith, Newton would have been better for Haskins for the future. Cam's mileage in the NFL is limited especially with the Skin's current O-line. He could have shown Haskins how to manuever this even in the worst of circumstances for Cam's time left on the field. Kyle presents much much more of a threat to Haskins. Both are young, fresh out of college with something to prove. They have just hired the coaches son to evealute the person in the position he wants to play. Who do you think will be playing next year? Rhetorical question. The real question is, will it only help Ron prove a point or improve the Redskins?

Quote

Its not that Kyle got gun-shy. In fact, one of the things people would praise him for is unflappable confidence and mental resilience in the face of pressure.

 

Part of it is the O-line (like you said). Last season, we had one of the lowest snap-to-pocket-collapse times in the league. We were good in run-blocking, but poor in pass protection. The other part is Kyle couldn't throw a deep ball worth a damn, and his pocket awareness needs improvement - too many times he would roll out into a defender when there was a clearer path on the other side.

 

In any case, I don't think you can find a better back-up outside of ex-starters like Bridgewater or McCown.

[/quote]

 

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And really it's hard to disagree with what he's saying. Allen's skillset is throwing footballs accurately. With a good OC and weapons that can be the only thing you need for a couple games, but he's gonna have to learn to make reads to be a starter in the NFL. Being pretty damn good at throwing footballs and meh at reading the field is a really good skillset for a backup QB, and he's more likely to learn to read the field than somebody that can make reads is likely to learn to throw accurately.

 

He was also very clearly rattled by his fumbling issues. If he cleans up those fumbles he'll be more calm and patient in the pocket and a lot of his problems will go away. He's got the tools, there's every chance Allen will turn into a franchise QB one day. He's still only 23. I'd rather bet on him than Josh Allen or Dwayne Haskins as my QB for the future.

 

 

Quote

1 year ago
If you listen to the "Missed Opportunities" podcast that this guy does (along with BillyM), you'll know it's absolutely that Kyle Allen sucks. He has almost zero awareness of anything that's happening around him. If it weren't for CMC being a constant thread underneath, then Kyle would look totally lost.

 

It's actually been amazing what Norv has been able to do with the offensive scheming with Allen back there. He's creating a ton of motion to Curtis and using trap blocks to open up holes. There's a really good breakdown of it on BillyM's twitter account.

 

 

Quote

And yet even though Cam doesn't do alot of these kinds of mistakes, he will still constantly sail the ball 5 ft above a WR's head and causing tipped balls and\or possible INT's.. something Allen doesn't do. All this to say that no one is perfect and the fact that Allen has done what he's done with virtually no professional experience is a compliment to him. He will learn. He is our starter until we get King Cam back, so let's support him.

 

 

Quote

I think he's young and has a lot of room for improvement but this thread definitely highlighted that he doesn't stay in the pocket well at all. He created a lot of unnecessary pressures by leaving the pocket early when there was no need to.

 

I think it also shows that he needs to work on his progressions. It seems like he is choosing pre-snap where he is going with the ball and not reading the defense and adjusting.

 

 

 

Edited by Thinking Skins
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14 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Is it POSSIBLE that Allen is our QB of the future? Remember, possible means 1% chance. He is only in his second season as a starter and is showing that he can run an offense and has good pocket presence. Can he be coached up and get better to the point where the football team commits to him as the starter? He seems very poised and has good command in the huddle from what I see. The players are responding to him. Here's hoping he has a great final 9 games and leads this team to the division title. He has rejuvenated me at this point and I was starting to give up hope for this season.

 

It's possible. His numbers are almost identical to Kirk Cousins in his first 16 starts

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Kyle Allen should be smart and understand he could have a long (and healthy) future here as the eventual backup QB who will master the offense, teach the new stud who comes here to take his starting job, and eventually become the head coach.

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15 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Is it POSSIBLE that Allen is our QB of the future? Remember, possible means 1% chance. He is only in his second season as a starter and is showing that he can run an offense and has good pocket presence. Can he be coached up and get better to the point where the football team commits to him as the starter? He seems very poised and has good command in the huddle from what I see. The players are responding to him. Here's hoping he has a great final 9 games and leads this team to the division title. He has rejuvenated me at this point and I was starting to give up hope for this season.

 

I had asked a question early in the season but didn't see a response so I'll try again. There are a number of fans here who believe you don't need a good QB, a simple middle of the pack guy will do with a really good roster.  Now I understand this can't mean a QB who turns the ball over like Allen has, but that can change.

 

I'm not in this camp, I firmly believe the team with the better QB wins most games. But for those of you in this camp is it out of the question that Kyle Allen can meet that middle of the pack level?

 

Edit:  I see posters are already making that argument. 

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
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Not a penny over 8mil next season and I’m good with him on the roster. 
 

It would be a travesty if he were to put a statistically respectful year and get 10-15mil for next season. This is when I’m completely out on Allen, no matter what he does this season. 
 

Hope team plays hard ball and doesn’t just cave in on what the expected going rate is for a starter in the league. If it ever reaches that point. 

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1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Not a penny over 8mil next season and I’m good with him on the roster. 
 

It would be a travesty if he were to put a statistically respectful year and get 10-15mil for next season. This is when I’m completely out on Allen, no matter what he does this season. 
 

Hope team plays hard ball and doesn’t just cave in on what the expected going rate is for a starter in the league. If it ever reaches that point. 

Since he's ERFA he'll probably get something close to the minimum. I mean he's going to have more starting experience and will be going into a contract year, but he really doesn't really have any negotiating power. If I were Kyle Smith, I would probably try to get him to a 3 year deal right now so that they could have him at a good rate for the next few years as either a starter or a backup. 

2 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I'm not in this camp, I firmly believe the team with the better QB wins most games. But for those of you in this camp is it out of the question that Kyle Allen can meet that middle of the pack level?

 

I definitely think that if he plays 9 more games like Dallas, he can be a top 15 type starter. If his next 9 starts are more of a combo of what we got from the Rams, Giants and Cowboys then its something where you have to ask the question about his ceiling and whether you want him as your starter going into next year. The thing is that no matter what we're going to bring in somebody next year. The question is will it be a high round pick or a low round pick. The higher the round the more of a risk they are to take the starting job from him (rightfully or not). So the better he plays the more it quiets this place down and the fan base can make legit arguments why signing the best LT or WR or CB helps the team more than the next QB. 

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20 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Since he's ERFA he'll probably get something close to the minimum. I mean he's going to have more starting experience and will be going into a contract year, but he really doesn't really have any negotiating power. If I were Kyle Smith, I would probably try to get him to a 3 year deal right now so that they could have him at a good rate for the next few years as either a starter or a backup. 

I definitely think that if he plays 9 more games like Dallas, he can be a top 15 type starter. If his next 9 starts are more of a combo of what we got from the Rams, Giants and Cowboys then its something where you have to ask the question about his ceiling and whether you want him as your starter going into next year. The thing is that no matter what we're going to bring in somebody next year. The question is will it be a high round pick or a low round pick. The higher the round the more of a risk they are to take the starting job from him (rightfully or not). So the better he plays the more it quiets this place down and the fan base can make legit arguments why signing the best LT or WR or CB helps the team more than the next QB. 

 

I can see him being the starter next season for sure. I'm not crazy about that idea as I believe his ceiling is pretty low but it would allow them to address other needs. Wouldn't it be great if we could find a Dak in the 3rd round? 

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20 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I had asked a question early in the season but didn't see a response so I'll try again. There are a number of fans here who believe you don't need a good QB, a simple middle of the pack guy will do with a really good roster.  Now I understand this can't mean a QB who turns the ball over like Allen has, but that can change.

 

I'm not in this camp, I firmly believe the team with the better QB wins most games. But for those of you in this camp is it out of the question that Kyle Allen can meet that middle of the pack level?

 

Edit:  I see posters are already making that argument. 

What I think Allen has done is elevate the rest of the teams play just by being competent and thats what we need right now. How good he can get to be is anyones guess....but I know he's the best QB on the roster right now and the players are responding to him. 

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On 10/30/2020 at 2:11 PM, Thinking Skins said:

Since he's ERFA he'll probably get something close to the minimum. I mean he's going to have more starting experience and will be going into a contract year, but he really doesn't really have any negotiating power. If I were Kyle Smith, I would probably try to get him to a 3 year deal right now so that they could have him at a good rate for the next few years as either a starter or a backup. 

I definitely think that if he plays 9 more games like Dallas, he can be a top 15 type starter. If his next 9 starts are more of a combo of what we got from the Rams, Giants and Cowboys then its something where you have to ask the question about his ceiling and whether you want him as your starter going into next year. The thing is that no matter what we're going to bring in somebody next year. The question is will it be a high round pick or a low round pick. The higher the round the more of a risk they are to take the starting job from him (rightfully or not). So the better he plays the more it quiets this place down and the fan base can make legit arguments why signing the best LT or WR or CB helps the team more than the next QB. 


Yep he’ll be dirt cheap in 2021 and relatively cheap in 2022 as a RFA. This is why trading a 5th for him was a good trade

 

He’s the perfect long term backup / spot starter.  If we draft Zach Wilson, he’d be a great mento as the two share some similarities (although Wilson is definitely the better player). If we trade for Darnold, remember he and Allen are good buddies

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On 10/30/2020 at 2:11 PM, Thinking Skins said:

definitely think that if he plays 9 more games like Dallas, he can be a top 15 type starter.

The problem is he just absolutely lacks arm talent.  He reminds me so much, I’m so many ways, of Rex Grossman.  He’s a better athlete than Rex, but Rex just lacked the ability to do what his mind wanted him to do. 
 

I think he can be better than Rex (let’s not forget Rex did QB a SB team) but he’s just so limited physically I don’t know if he can make big throws against good coverage.

 

We’ll see.  But that’s my concern.  If you’re going to beat tight coverage consistently, you’ve really got to have an NFL calibre arm.  And I’m not saying a howitzer like Rodgers has, but more than the squirt gun it appears Allen has.  
 

And also for the record, I LIKE Allen.  I think he played well against Dallas, and ok against NYG.  But I think there’s a ceiling, and it’s made of reinforced concrete.

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