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As per NFL.com (and others) Redskins trade with Panthers for Kyle allen (QB)


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Kyle Allen really, really impresses me at how he consistently avoids a menacing pass rush during a collapsing O-line, avoids the sack, and still puts himself in a position to make plays.

He does have brain farts once in a while, like Frerotte, but his upside outweighs his downside, especially if he can continue to improve

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59 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I just find it interesting that the undrafted guy has outperformed 2 first round picks that several people in this fanbase argue over who is better than the other, Jones v. Haskins.  

 

You are aware why people like to compare Jones v Haskins correct? 

 

Edit. Ill take the mystery out. Its cause they were drafted in the same draft and by rival teams. Has nothing to do with Allen. But im sure they will be compared at some point if he continues to start and their stats continue to be so similar. 

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19 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You are aware why people like to compare Jones v Haskins correct?

 

Yes because one quarterback "wink wink come get me Gettleman" was upset that the Giants didn't draft him, and then when a divisional rival did, both fanbases salivated at the opportunity to be the one who "won" the draft lottery.  And I am saying that ironically, both teams probably lost because of A. Haskins more likely than not being off of the team by next season and B. Jones having very similar numbers to Kyle Allen.

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1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

He does have brain farts once in a while, like Frerotte, but his upside outweighs his downside, especially if he can continue to improve

As long as he doesn't headbutt the wall...

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7 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Yes because one quarterback "wink wink come get me Gettleman" was upset that the Giants didn't draft him, and then when a divisional rival did, both fanbases salivated at the opportunity to be the one who "won" the draft lottery.  And I am saying that ironically, both teams probably lost because of A. Haskins more likely than not being off of the team by next season and B. Jones having very similar numbers to Kyle Allen.

 

Thats we got a guy playing similar to Jones for a 5th is a good get for us, I think. I think the giants are screwed, though Jones could still technically turn it around. But if ifs were fifths we would all be as drunk as Jumbo. 

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4 hours ago, Xameil said:

As long as he doesn't headbutt the wall...

He was on the trajectory to be a franchise qb before that. Afterwards, just a career backup. I really think he had some serious damage. I would say he should sue, but sue who, it was just him running into a wall.... As a... Celebration? 

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6 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Kyle Allen really, really impresses me at how he consistently avoids a menacing pass rush during a collapsing O-line, avoids the sack, and still puts himself in a position to make plays.

He does have brain farts once in a while, like Frerotte, but his upside outweighs his downside, especially if he can continue to improve

 

Allen and McLaurin remind me of Frerotte and Westbrook... 😀

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Looking at the month's worth of games coming out of the bye week, Kyle Allen has a real chance to lead this team to a solid position within the division.  They don't play a good team for awhile.  I am not ready to even act like I expect the team to win those games, but I definitely feel like they have a decent to good chance in all of them.   I think we all knew the offense was going to be questionable going into the season, and they haven't suddenly become the greatest show on turf, but I think Kyle Allen is giving us what we thought a a supposed improved Haskins would be able to offer.  

 

Whether Kyle Allen has a long term future as a starting QB in this league is not likely going to be determined at this time, but for now he should just keep trying to be efficient and not make mistakes, take what the defense gives him and go from there.  

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Legit question...

 

what defines success for Kyle?  Can he exceed expectations and develop into something for us?  Will we give him that chance?  If we finish 8-8 and get into the tournament, is that enough to ride with him with any confidence?  He has talent. He competes.  He’s flawed.  Sooooo...what do we want from him?

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On 10/26/2020 at 3:27 PM, DJHJR86 said:

 

Yes because one quarterback "wink wink come get me Gettleman" was upset that the Giants didn't draft him, and then when a divisional rival did, both fanbases salivated at the opportunity to be the one who "won" the draft lottery.  And I am saying that ironically, both teams probably lost because of A. Haskins more likely than not being off of the team by next season and B. Jones having very similar numbers to Kyle Allen.

One of them there QBs quickly asserted “the league done messed up” .....smh...wow

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10 hours ago, Stone Cold said:

Legit question...

 

what defines success for Kyle?  Can he exceed expectations and develop into something for us?  Will we give him that chance?  If we finish 8-8 and get into the tournament, is that enough to ride with him with any confidence?  He has talent. He competes.  He’s flawed.  Sooooo...what do we want from him?

I really think right now its a question of whether or not this is a mirage. He was all the talk in Carolina last year and then the HC gets fired and the new guy lets him go for a ham sandwich. He really fell apart at the end of the year. So badly that the same guy who wanted him here in DC (Scott Turner) benched him in Carolina. So there's this ultimate fear that he'll resort back to that form. 

 

But on top of that there are questions about what his ceiling is. I don't want to put it in terms of game manager or back up QB vs playmaker or franchise QB. But what does he do well, what does he do poorly, and are those things he does poorly critical things that need to be a part of a starting QBs game. If he shows over the next 9 weeks that he can't get off his first read and throws floaters into double coverage too often then that's a sign that he's just not the guy. If he can quiet the rumblings about his lack of arm strength or his seeming to need to scramble to avoid a rush that isn't there then maybe he has a starting future here. 

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19 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So badly that the same guy who wanted him here in DC (Scott Turner) benched him in Carolina.

 

How much of that was wanting to get a look at Grier to see what they had in him, like the Bengals did with Ryan Finley last season?  

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36 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

How much of that was wanting to get a look at Grier to see what they had in him, like the Bengals did with Ryan Finley last season?  

True, but they wouldn't be having those type of questions had Allen been playing well. That's the crux of it. I think the worse case scenario is that we end up with these last 9 games not giving us any information about his future. The main way I think that happens is if he gets hurt which I knew would happen in the Rams game (don't know why). Otherwise I could see him just playing safe ball (my Alex Smith plan that I laid out for Haskins) with the occasional play here and there until he has a stronger hold on the starting job. 

 

He is really just they type of QB I like to see on this team, a young guy who has shown potential elsewhere that we didn't have to invest a lot in and can build around and groom into a starter. Its not a question of what his ceiling is. To me, its more about how good can we be with him. I would love to see us build a good running game and make it rely less on his playmaking abilities. 

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On 10/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, Llevron said:

 

Thats we got a guy playing similar to Jones for a 5th is a good get for us, I think. I think the giants are screwed, though Jones could still technically turn it around. But if ifs were fifths we would all be as drunk as Jumbo. 

 

 

i joke about booze here but the scary thing is it's been a rare thing for me to consume alcohol  over the last 15-20 years

 

after years of being considered risky relationship material---a few divorces and people  get all judgy--i finally matured and developed a loving, long-term, and monogamous relationship with my crack pipe...old school.... :) 

 

 

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So this is interesting. I think I'm seeing more about Kyle Allen's arm and arm strength. Coming out of HS, he seemed to have arm strength but it seems that as others developed in college they have surpassed him in that area. 

 

One thing I like (that we are noticing these last few games) is that although he doesn't have the arm strength he has the deep ball accuracy -

https://theathletic.com/1299673/2019/10/18/nfl-film-room-kyle-allen-kyler-murray/

 

So far this season, Allen has passed for 901 yards, seven touchdowns, and has yet to throw an interception in four games. (He does have an issue with fumbling, though). Allen doesn’t possess the rocket arm that Murray does but he throws with excellent touch and has great trajectory control. He has a knack for getting the ball over defenders.

 

here's some praise for his footwork

Though Allen is only in his second year, he looks poised and makes it look easy. Part of why he looks so smooth is because his footwork is pristine. By positioning himself correctly with his feet, he is able to throw the ball without much wasted movement.

 

But as I'm looking at his collapse last year a lot of the blame (including quotes from Rivera) goes to the OL and how bad they were. In one game all the guys playing T gave up a sack. At first I saw his sack numbers as a reflection of him (I was thinking RG3 vs Kirk and how much better the line looked for one vs the other). But seeing these things like 7 sack games combined with 46 attempts and I don't think that's the way to build a young QBs confidence. Especially when you consider that in his 5 wins he always had less than40 attempts. In the next ?7? games he only had less than 40 once. That's almost a clear divide in terms of what he needs to do to succeed. He needs to be a game manager right now with a strong running game. 

 

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1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

i joke about booze here but the scary thing is it's been a rare thing for me to consume alcohol  over the last 15-20 years

 

after years of being considered risky relationship material---a few divorces and people  get all judgy--i finally matured and developed a loving, long-term, and monogamous relationship with my crack pipe...old school.... :) 

 

😆

 

The funny thing about this is for about 93% of your reply you had me thinking "Oh **** hes taking this seriously and he really had a problem..." 

 

I hear old school crack pipe is the way to go though. Get that Baltimore lean going 

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22 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

He is really just they type of QB I like to see on this team, a young guy who has shown potential elsewhere that we didn't have to invest a lot in and can build around and groom into a starter. Its not a question of what his ceiling is. To me, its more about how good can we be with him. I would love to see us build a good running game and make it rely less on his playmaking abilities. 

 

Sheehan & Cooley brought up some good points about Allen.  Both agreed that he was never going to be elite, but they did say it was possible that he could be the guy you sign relatively cheap, who can effectively operate the offense, while you use draft capital and free agency money elsewhere to build the team around him that way.  

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5 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Sheehan & Cooley brought up some good points about Allen.  Both agreed that he was never going to be elite, but they did say it was possible that he could be the guy you sign relatively cheap, who can effectively operate the offense, while you use draft capital and free agency money elsewhere to build the team around him that way.  

I thought Cooley wasn't ready to say that. I think everybody is trying to not get too excited about him because of his draft status and how far he fell last year after starting off well. But I look at Brunell and how welll he did with a similar skillset and question if we are willing to stick with him long enough for him to grow out of his mistakes. I think we can have a good team with him if we are not so quick to put a ceiling on him or to go chasing after the shiny new toy. 

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I think what some are missing in the convo is the difference between a franchise guy, a bridge guy, or a pure backup guy. 
 

Kyle Allen (GIVE THIS MAN A CAPITAL LETTER IN THE THREAD TITLE!! :ols: ) could be a great backup for us, maybe even a bridge starter while we build the team (this still needs to shake out a bit) but he is more than likely not our franchise quarterback.

 

You don’t always need a franchise quarterback. You can get by the a bridge level starter if the team is built right.

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28 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Kyle Allen (GIVE THIS MAN A CAPITAL LETTER IN THE THREAD TITLE!! :ols: ) could be a great backup for us, maybe even a bridge starter while we build the team (this still needs to shake out a bit) but he is more than likely not our franchise quarterback.

 

 

Nobody is likely a franchise QB until they are known to be a franchise QB. Look in Philly and they have a statue for Foles (Saint Nick) but question Wentz every game and he had an almost MVP season. Cam is a guy who had an MVP season and Carolina was questioning if he was a franchise guy because he kept getting injured. Dak was putting up MVP numbers this year but before this season there was an open question of how good he really was. Heck we went through this with Cousins, unwilling to give him the money because he wasn't a franchise guy. Now he's making the money in Minnesota but they're asking the same question. Is Jimmy G a franchise guy? He took them to a SB but its looking shaky now. 

 

In my opinion, changing a QB is not like rotating tires on the car. We need to build chemistry behind the same QB, especially if he's not making critical mistakes. Allen is the guy right now and we're looking good. He's young and we should be able to get him on a good deal after this year. So I'd like to invest in him for the future at least in terms of seeing what he provides. I think its obvious that he can be a legitimate starter but its a question of will we (Dan) want Lawrence or whoever else is deemed as the next great thing. We are not a place known for developing QBs but if we start to see Allen develop, I wouldn't get rid of him so quickly, especially if we start winning with him. 

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Just now, KDawg said:

I disagree with you. There are guys who show the qualities even if they struggle. Manning his first year with Indy was ugly. But there was no doubt he was the franchise guy.


I agree with that. Right now in Houston, Waston is the franchise guy without question. In Baltimore, Jackson is the guy. But its not always cut and dry. Here RG3 was the franchise guy in 2012 until that Seattle game. So the question is who are these definitive franchise guys vs the ones who are not? Manning was doing things unheard of from a QB standpoint, add that to his draft status and that he took over Indy who weren't that good of a frachise before him and it was all arrows pointing in the same direction. Plus, he had that streak of games played where nobody else had a chance to show that they could also put up stats. Same with a guy like Favre. 

 

But you look at some other guys, take McNabb in Philly. Philly HATED him even though he was the most successful QB in their history. And there were always stories (fan inspired) about how they could trade McNabb for player X, start AJ Feely or whoever the backup was that looked good in the moment and be just as good. I'd call him a franchise guy but would Philly fans? Romo was, but was Dak? Eli was, is Jones? 

 

Stafford is a guy who many say is a franchise guy and he has good numbers but he's never won anything and so I can understand if fans there are not appreciative. Carr in LV is looking good right now but there were open questions about him being replaced just last year. Is Tannehill a franchise guy? 

 

I'm not knocking the notion of franchise QBs but I think its a lot more uncertain a lot of the times, especially in the moment. 

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