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As per NFL.com (and others) Redskins trade with Panthers for Kyle allen (QB)


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15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And to me it would be one of the better Alex Smith games when we had him, like the one versus Arizona versus lets say the one versus Tampa Bay or the Texans.  I was actually thinking Alex Smith, at his best, while watching that one.   He showed some mobility when needed.  And he didn't just manage the game but also made some big throws when needed albeit most of what he did was conservative.

 

I agree. 
 

Have to capture momentum early in games when the coaches have created a schematic advantage early on and on days when there appears to be a talent gap. Allen did this today and like you mentioned, did make a few plays. 

 

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If he plays like this game in and game out, they can win with him.  But alas that's not been how his young career has been so far so i am not banking on it.
 

 

Right with you.
 

Today is an anomaly for him, but game managers can be developed, ESPECIALLY ones that have some wheels. Wish he was a better instinctual runner— fascinates me to see if this can be worked on. For me I’d like to see him climb the pocket, scramble in the A and B gaps more often, and be more patient when play making on the edges (he sprints to the sidelines versus having spatial awareness of himself, sideline, and defenders coming after him). 

 

 

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Interesting that Kyle has learned from Alex.  I was wondering some about it when I read the WP story about a player urging Haskins to model Alex -- I wondered how Kyle is doing on that front?  You'd figure Alex is the perfect mentor to Kyle because Kyle's career issue has been turnovers and Alex's niche is avoing turnovers.

 

He did seem to have the look Smith at various moments. A blend of Allen and Smiths game management would be a nice mix. Allen did a great job of limiting 2nd or 3rd and long situations by avoiding sacks and making throws available to him and this was done by timely throw aways and at one time stepping up into a sack limiting the negative yardage. Alex was always great at taking the 1-2 yard sack versus 3-8 yard sacks that kill drives. 


 

I’ve decided my rooting interest will be for Allen to develop into a good game manager with wheels and for the organization to feel confident about him going into next year as the starter, but still drafting a QB. 

Edited by wit33
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Allen did exactly what he needed to do this week. He was accurate for the most part on the short throws that moved the sticks. He was accurate on the shots he took down field. The only thing you can ask from him now is consistency. Great game today.

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I think Kyle may surprise people who thought he was not a good choice to bring in here by Ron. He could turn out to be better than many think. On this list, he was ranked #5 behind  #4 -  Jackson, #3 - Goff, #2 - Watson and #1 - Mahomes. It's also interesting to see where the QB's on this list are today compared to where they were when this list was made last year (2019).

 

I think Kyle Allen could turn out to be at least a Kirk Cousins level QB if not better.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2857471-ranking-the-nfls-top-10-quarterbacks-under-25?share=email

 

>>Though he doesn't possess the star power of Minshew, Carolina Panthers quarterback Kyle Allen has quietly been one of the best young quarterbacks in the league dating back to last season. He's gone 4-0 as a starter in relief of Cam Newton, and not just because he has a quality team around him.

 

Allen is accurate and decisive with his throws, and he has enough mobility to make even premier pass-rushers like J.J. Watt look a little silly.

 

Though he may not become the new face of the Panthers franchise, Allen has shown all the tools needed to be a future franchise quarterback. Through three games this season, he's thrown for 674 yards with five touchdowns and zero interceptions. For his four starts, he has an impressive passer rating of 108.8.

 

The reality is that Carolina isn't going to rush Newton back from his foot injury, largely because they have a winning quarterback in Allen.<<

Edited by SonnySideUp
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So my question is what are we going to do about his contract? Is he an ERFA again this year, or do we have to tag him when he wins us the division? Is this Kirk Cousins all over again where we snub him with a $15 mil offer but he wants $25? 

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2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So my question is what are we going to do about his contract? Is he an ERFA again this year, or do we have to tag him when he wins us the division? Is this Kirk Cousins all over again where we snub him with a $15 mil offer but he wants $25? 


Yep he is an ERFA again in 2021 and a RFA in 2022. This is why I didn’t have issues giving up a 5th for him. You have him cheap for 3 years in total

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5 minutes ago, method man said:


Yep he is an ERFA again in 2021 and a RFA in 2022. This is why I didn’t have issues giving up a 5th for him. You have him cheap for 3 years in total


Agree. I think he’d only accrued one season at CAR hadn’t he. Really good trade value on balance.

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1 hour ago, method man said:

Yep he is an ERFA again in 2021 and a RFA in 2022. This is why I didn’t have issues giving up a 5th for him. You have him cheap for 3 years in total

So can you educate me on ERFAs, are their deals set in stone or is it still negotiable? 

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1 minute ago, spjunkies said:

Can we see this guy perform against decent teams before talking about contract extensions????

Hey! Dallas is a Super Bowl quality team. One of the chief contenders to win it all. Everyone on ESPN said it! Often.

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Allen is a below-average arm (well below Haskins in arm strength).  He's much more mobile and escapes pressure far better.  He's got better touch too.  I think he's a more mobile Rex.

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My fear (and I'm honestly conflicted about this) is that Allen really does look good this year and we go into the draft with the idea that he is a viable option going into next year and then he embarrasses himself next year and shows he is not the one. I think he deserves a shot to be a franchise guy, especially if he's leading us to wins. 

 

My normal attitude is that I don't like first round QBs because of all the hype they get and all the speculation that goes into their success or failure. I can remember wanting to trade for a AJ McCarron or Bethard or Mullens after their early games (I didn't want to give up much for these guys) and giving them a chance to succeed and grow as a starter. That seems to be exactly what we are doing and its right up my alley. 

 

My other philosophy is to spend a mid to low round pick on a Kirk Cousins or Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott. Now obviously those are the ones who are the big names who made it. But I was for Grier and Finley a few years back, as well as Rypien. I liked Mason Rudolph and Kyle Lauletta the year before that. The question is are any of these guys playmakers or much of an upgrade over Allen. I don't know who the guys are in this year's draft and I know there may be some intrigueing names who drop because they took the year off (who is the guy from GA?). 

 

But in the end this may be the best thing for our team because it allows us to run with Allen as long as we can and just keep building the team and if the next guy comes in and doesn't look good we stay with Allen, but if we are able to draft a young guy who shows potential we can make it into a situation where he's not under any pressure to come in and "take the throne" like they're doing in Miami. 

 

Plus, if we don't draft a QB, we can get a LT (I don't want one mainly because we've had top LTs for the past 20 years and still sucked) or a WR or a DB or a S or a MLB, a bunch of areas where we could help to build a stronger team. 

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9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

My fear (and I'm honestly conflicted about this) is that Allen really does look good this year and we go into the draft with the idea that he is a viable option going into next year and then he embarrasses himself next year and shows he is not the one. I think he deserves a shot to be a franchise guy, especially if he's leading us to wins. 

Part of me would embrace this. Unless we get one of the sure things, I'd much rather build the line. Even with a sure thing, I kind of want a line first anyway. We've seen what bad lines do to rookie QBs.

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4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Part of me would embrace this. Unless we get one of the sure things, I'd much rather build the line. Even with a sure thing, I kind of want a line first anyway. We've seen what bad lines do to rookie QBs.

 

This. Even if hes not the one, if our plan is to make this team a contender we need to draft heavy on Oline and Defense, and spend on skill positions until we have a car that even Allen can drive. IF at that point its determined that the squad is GOOD and he is holding them back, you draft a guy that wont in whatever round you can get him. You could draft a Kirk Cousins and support him with a good team around him and make it work. Or you could draft a QB every year until you hit on a Wilson. Either way you need a squad around a guy and if Allen is giving you a chance to 1) compete and 2) actually see what the rest of the team has.....he needs to be the guy to build it around until you have a better, cheaper option for long term. 

 

Hes exactly what you want out of a late round QB when you are in the spot we are in if you ask me. Though i have a talent for deluding myself so maybe im wrong lol 

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Its so interesting that all the complaints since Allen has been starting have been about his arm because this was one of his scouting reports from college in 2018: 

 

https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2018/4/13/17219366/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-profile-kyle-allen-qb-houston-cougars-texas-a-m-aggies

 

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS: There’s a reason why he was a top recruit coming out of high school: his arm. Allen possesses a strong arm and is capable of making any throw. He made a number of throws that were put where only his receiver could get it, including many deep shots placed perfectly. His arm strength also allows him to make off balance throws when pressure is in his face. When he’s given the time to make a play downfield, he can make accurate throws at any level. Even when pressured, he still showed the ability to make tough throws and not panic.

Allen doesn’t get too antsy in the pocket, and his body seems calm when scanning the field. There isn’t a ton of wasted movement in his throwing motion. He does a good job of squaring his shoulders when rolling out, but also isn’t afraid to tuck and run. He doesn’t have blazing speed, but has enough to gain yards when in trouble.

WEAKNESSES: Everything Allen needs to work on is between his ears.....it’s all mental. There are times when he tries to force things or lets his eyes move a defender into the throwing lane. Accuracy downfield was an issue at times. While he can handle some pressure, it seemed like there were long stretches where he had to deal with constant pressure. That’s not his fault, but it did lead to inaccurate throws, quick bailouts, and turnovers.

FINAL THOUGHTS

Allen had the task of replacing two stars at Texas A&M and Houston, and seemed to take it in stride. Inconsistent play is something that he’s going to have to fix if he wants to be a pro. Many thought that he would (and should) transfer to another school to play his final year of college, but going pro may have been his best option. Now, he can focus on his game, and finding a team that will sign him as a free agent. He has the physical tools to be a good quarterback, but it all comes down to the mental side of the game.

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1 hour ago, spjunkies said:

Can we see this guy perform against decent teams before talking about contract extensions????


I think he’s shown enough to be our #2. Sign him for backup money and check one need off the list. 
 

The guy is 97% not our starter in the future.

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I'm actually looking more into this because I'm really intrigued into whether Allen could be our franchise QB. He has the intangibles and seems to be growing well. I'm thinking about two of his passes yesterday. The first is the floater he threw to Logan Thomas. That was so ugly that it made me strictly question his arm strength and his abilities at this level. It looked so bad that it reminded me of Colt McCoy's throw to Pierre Garcon against the Cowboys so many moons ago. That said, there was also the deep pass to Garcon, which hit him in stride and seemed effortless. So that second throw makes me believe that he does indeed have the arm strength but maybe not Dwayne level arm strength where he can throw deep balls off his back foot or something. 

 

I'm reading articles from Carolina last year and seeing references to both "his arm strength" and "his lack of arm strength" so its somewhat puzzling. 

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3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm actually looking more into this because I'm really intrigued into whether Allen could be our franchise QB. He has the intangibles and seems to be growing well. I'm thinking about two of his passes yesterday. The first is the floater he threw to Logan Thomas. That was so ugly that it made me strictly question his arm strength and his abilities at this level. It looked so bad that it reminded me of Colt McCoy's throw to Pierre Garcon against the Cowboys so many moons ago. That said, there was also the deep pass to Garcon, which hit him in stride and seemed effortless. So that second throw makes me believe that he does indeed have the arm strength but maybe not Dwayne level arm strength where he can throw deep balls off his back foot or something. 

 

I'm reading articles from Carolina last year and seeing references to both "his arm strength" and "his lack of arm strength" so its somewhat puzzling. 


He doesn’t have elite arm strength or bad arm strength. 
 

His mechanics are inconsistent and he tries to make throws off schedule. That’s usually when you see him make a really nice play or a really bad one, too.

 

The Thomas throw he was being pressured, saw Thomas last second, threw off his back foot and I think his other foot was like a foot and a half in the air. Resulted in Lob City.

 

The throw to McLaurin (who I assume you meant when you said Garçon) he had better mechanics. Even then he doesn’t have a rocket, but he has adequate arm strength when his form is right. 

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:


He doesn’t have elite arm strength or bad arm strength. 
 

 

Even this statement puts him into a different category than Colt McCoy for me. In my opinion McCoy didn't have NFL Arm strength. I remember the pass from McCoy to Doctson in the game where Smith broke his leg, that ball was short. There should have been DPI on that call, but if McCoy had put a little more on that ball Doctson could have caught it. I think over the next few weeks we will see what Allen has in his arm and that will be a big factor in terms of his ceiling. 

 

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

His mechanics are inconsistent and he tries to make throws off schedule. That’s usually when you see him make a really nice play or a really bad one, too.

 

As we were saying with Haskins, I think mechanics are correctable, particularly if he's putting in time. One thing about Allen that worries me is that he left Texas A&M and Houston and now Carolina when he was challenged. Its not always his choice but why does he keep leaving places and never seems to be the chosen one (even here if we draft a QB next year)? 

 

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The Thomas throw he was being pressured, saw Thomas last second, threw off his back foot and I think his other foot was like a foot and a half in the air. Resulted in Lob City.

 

Understandable. 

 

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The throw to McLaurin (who I assume you meant when you said Garçon) he had better mechanics. Even then he doesn’t have a rocket, but he has adequate arm strength when his form is right. 

 

No, I was comparing the Thomas throw to McCoy's pass to Garcon years back. The pass to TMac was very nice and gave me hope that he could make all the throws of an NFL QB. And I really wonder about how Allen compares to some of the other QBs in the league, like Case Keenum or Goff or the guy in SF. Who are the best guys who don't have the elite NFL arms? 

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