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As per NFL.com (and others) Redskins trade with Panthers for Kyle allen (QB)


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17 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

I understand why people keep saying "oh it's the giants", but the GIants have a higher ranked defense than Philly, Cleveland, and Arizona. So Haskins only played one defense ranked ahead of the Giants. 


Fair and valid point. 
 

He showed a lot of competency as a NFL QB and then Jameis Winstoned on the two turnovers. Next year we may as well go after the real mccoy (pun intended) and snag Jameis. 
 

We’d at least be entertained every game. 350 yard passing games, 5 TDS.... 7 INT. In one game. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:


Fair and valid point. 
 

He showed a lot of competency as a NFL QB and then Jameis Winstoned on the two turnovers. Next year we may as well go after the real mccoy (pun intended) and snag Jameis. 
 

We’d at least be entertained every game. 350 yard passing games, 5 TDS.... 7 INT. In one game. 
 

 

 

Now, if he makes the Dallas defense look good this week that will be cause for concern. But this game he had a credible 70 qbr and 97 qb rating. So if you follow just data alone with out any subjective analysis (which I know we all do), he had a not so bad game. Good enough where I'd want to see him again and if he keeps it up he can be our backup for the future. 

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2 hours ago, GOATFrerotte said:

I understand why people keep saying "oh it's the giants", but the GIants have a higher ranked defense than Philly, Cleveland, and Arizona. So Haskins only played one defense ranked ahead of the Giants. 


It’s not just the Giants defense but that the Giants overall a bad team and this provided both bad teams to stay within their respective comfort zones all game, due to neither having the ability to pull away. 
 

This provides an overall positive situation for the entire game for Allen and he still managed to have two horrible TOs. Yes, TOs have different levels of horrible and both were about as bad as they come. 
 

Not banging the drum to defend Haskins just acknowledging the facts. 

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Teams with no offense have a habit of sparing their own defense the full might of opposing offenses’ firepower and preserving “decent looking” stats as the other team just runs out the clock on the game with no flair. If the Giants were able to put up points like the Cowboys were with Dak, I think there’s a chance the defense would look similarly bad. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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33 minutes ago, wit33 said:


It’s not just the Giants defense but that the Giants overall a bad team and this provided both bad teams to stay within their respective comfort zones all game, due to neither having the ability to pull away. 
 

This provides an overall positive situation for the entire game for Allen and he still managed to have two horrible TOs. Yes, TOs have different levels of horrible and both were about as bad as they come. 
 

Not banging the drum to defend Haskins just acknowledging the facts. 

 

Allen only had 8 possessions. 50% of his possessions went for scores and over 70 yards. There is a reason he had a 70 qbr in the game. If you can do what he did on 8 possessions, where most games you get 10-12, it's a decent game. Two terrible turnovers, followed by points on the next possession means he didn't make the situation worse. You can't just ignore the fact the Giants defense has been decent this year just because "it's the giants". Allen gave us a chance to win. Not sure what else you want from him. Not a huge fan of going for 2 with the way our defense was playing and the offense was moving the ball. 

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3 hours ago, KDawg said:


Fair and valid point. 
 

He showed a lot of competency as a NFL QB and then Jameis Winstoned on the two turnovers. Next year we may as well go after the real mccoy (pun intended) and snag Jameis. 
 

We’d at least be entertained every game. 350 yard passing games, 5 TDS.... 7 INT. In one game. 
 

 

Crab Man got Lasik. He's going to be darting lasers at his teamates and not just any jersey on the field when he gets another shot. Then it will be 12 TDs. IN ONE GAME.

Edited by Florgon79
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3 hours ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Good enough where I'd want to see him again and if he keeps it up he can be our backup for the future. 

 

Personally I don't think there is any question he is/can be a good backup. Unless he significantly cuts down on the turnovers though he cant/wont be a long term starter.

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53 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Allen only had 8 possessions. 50% of his possessions went for scores and over 70 yards. There is a reason he had a 70 qbr in the game. If you can do what he did on 8 possessions, where most games you get 10-12, it's a decent game. Two terrible turnovers, followed by points on the next possession means he didn't make the situation worse. You can't just ignore the fact the Giants defense has been decent this year just because "it's the giants". Allen gave us a chance to win. Not sure what else you want from him. Not a huge fan of going for 2 with the way our defense was playing and the offense was moving the ball. 


I do choose to factor in the opponent but it’s not an end all be all thing, just a piece of the overall pie when evaluating Allen’s play last week. I think Allen is actually pretty dynamic in short game: screens and working the check downs. I think with this style of play and if he can avoid TOs (which we have zero reason to believe at this point) the team will have a chance in games versus team 18-32.

 

He and Turner must find a way to get the ball down field more or the ceiling on offense will remain a 6 out of 10. 

 

 The game looked to me like two QBs who rank 24-32 in the NFL leading 2 of the bottom 4 teams in the NFL. Ho hum. 
 

 

Edited by wit33
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3 hours ago, GOATFrerotte said:

I understand why people keep saying "oh it's the giants", but the GIants have a higher ranked defense than Philly, Cleveland, and Arizona. So Haskins only played one defense ranked ahead of the Giants. 

 

4 of the 6 other QBs who went up against the Giants' defense had better passer ratings than Allen did.

 

2 of the 4 defenses Haskins went up against rank higher than the Giants in terms of:

- Passing TDs allowed (Ravens, Cardinals)

- Passing TD percentage allowed (Ravens, Cardinals)

- Yards per play allowed (Ravens Eagles)

 

3 of the 4 defenses Haskins went up against rank higher than the Giants in terms of:

- Passer rating allowed (Ravens, Browns, Cardinals)

- Passing yards allowed (Ravens, Eagles, Cardinals)

- Sacks (Ravens, Eagles, Cardinals)

 

All 4 defenses Haskins went up against rank higher than the Giants in terms of:

- Pass completion percentage

- Yards per pass attempt

 

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2 hours ago, wit33 said:


I do choose to factor in the opponent but it’s not an end all be all thing, just a piece of the overall pie when evaluating Allen’s play last week. I think Allen is actually pretty dynamic in short game: screens and working the check downs. I think with this style of play and if he can avoid TOs (which we have zero reason to believe at this point) the team will have a chance in games versus team 18-32.

 

He and Turner must find a way to get the ball down field more or the ceiling on offense will remain a 6 out of 10. 

 

 The game looked to me like two QBs who rank 24-32 in the NFL leading 2 of the bottom 4 teams in the NFL. Ho hum. 
 

 


I agree there, there was nothing special about Allen. But when talking about qb play for Washington it was above average. It’s not saying much but I actually believe the Giants have just as good of a chance as any team in the East to win because of their defense. This Eagles game on thursday night will be interesting with all their injuries. Giants have played one really bad game all year otherwise have been just as good as Washington or the Eagles. 
 

But Allen will have no excuses this week, that Cowboys defense is atrocious. 

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On 10/19/2020 at 11:48 AM, GOATFrerotte said:

 

 

 

He made accurate short range throws and allowed our RBs and WRs to make plays. That is both necessary, because of our Offensive Line, and a good general habit to keep the chains moving. He also showed us he can make the deep and mid ranged throws, although that's also where his biggest weaknesses are. He was careless on several of those throws, biggest of which, a mid range dig to McLaurin which we are accustomed to him housing, he dirt balled 5 yards short. He has to make that throw (and hold on to the football). 

 

 

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1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

He made accurate short range throws and allowed our RBs and WRs to make plays. That is both necessary, because of our Offensive Line, and a good general habit to keep the chains moving. He also showed us he can make the deep and mid ranged throws, although that's also where his biggest weaknesses are. He was careless on several of those throws, biggest of which, a mid range dig to McLaurin which we are accustomed to him housing, he dirt balled 5 yards short. He has to make that throw (and hold on to the football). 

 

 


Every game he will make mid and deep range throws, the extreme isn’t the debate. Can he do this consistently enough in games to provide some balance with his great short game ability and push the ceiling of the offense a bit higher is the challenge, IMO. 
 

With that said, his short game combined with some good defense can be enough versus the back half of teams in most games I imagine. Stating the obvious, but he must take care of the football though. 

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Allen and Washington opened at +3 and now a pickem vs Dallas. That's a good sign line movement wise. That's embarrassing for Dallas considering all their weapons on offense. I'm liking our chances this week.

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On 10/20/2020 at 8:30 AM, GOATFrerotte said:

I understand why people keep saying "oh it's the giants", but the GIants have a higher ranked defense than Philly, Cleveland, and Arizona. So Haskins only played one defense ranked ahead of the Giants. 

 

Defensive DVOA is the best all-encompassing defensive metric out there.

 

Baltimore is ranked 4th.

Arizona is ranked 9th.

LAR is ranked 13th.

NYG is ranked 17th.

Philly is ranked 19th.

Cleveland is ranked 20th.

 

So Haskins played two defenses ranked well ahead of the Giants and two that were ranked about the same.

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6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Defensive DVOA is the best all-encompassing defensive metric out there.

 

Baltimore is ranked 4th.

Arizona is ranked 9th.

LAR is ranked 13th.

NYG is ranked 17th.

Philly is ranked 19th.

Cleveland is ranked 20th.

 

So Haskins played two defenses ranked well ahead of the Giants and two that were ranked about the same.

 

Before the game was played, Giants were ranked ahead of Arizona, Philly, and Cleveland in DVOA. Arizona jumped up big time because their performance against Dalton and the Cowboys.

Which begs the question, is DVOA really the end all be all for how good a defense is considering a team jumped up 11 ranks in 1 week after playing a backup qb? 🙄

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1 minute ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Before the game was played, Giants were ranked ahead of Arizona, Philly, and Cleveland in DVOA. Arizona jumped up big time because their performance against Dalton and the Cowboys.

 

DVOA is schedule-adjusted, so that is irrelevant.  What matters is where each defense ranks currently, as that gives us the most data to inform our opinion on the overall ability of a defense.

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Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

DVOA is schedule-adjusted, so that is irrelevant.  What matters is where each defense ranks currently, as that gives us the most data to inform our opinion on the overall ability of a defense.

 

Is it adjusted for playing backup qbs. Because it makes sense that Arizona would have a huge jump because the Cowboys were near the #1 offense in the league with dak. Regardless, Giants are a middle of the pack defense and ahead of Arizona before they played the hapless red rocket and definitely not "it's the giants" territory. 

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2 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Is it adjusted for playing backup qbs. Because it makes sense that Arizona would have a huge jump because the Cowboys were near the #1 offense in the league with dak. Regardless, Giants are a middle of the pack defense and ahead of Arizona before they played the hapless red rocket and definitely not "it's the giants" territory. 

 

Is this the same Giants defense that let Dalton put up a 109 passer rating on them when Dak went down, leading them to multiple FGs to seal the win for the Cowboys?

 

Dak vs Dalton in the Giants game:

 

1012573482_ScreenShot2020-10-21at9_42_17AM.thumb.png.bacb3fa944a4ed88ccef2192273cfa11.png

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6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Is this the same Giants defense that let Dalton put up a 109 passer rating on them when Dak went down, leading them to multiple FGs to seal the win for the Cowboys?

 

Dak vs Dalton in the Giants game:

 

1012573482_ScreenShot2020-10-21at9_42_17AM.thumb.png.bacb3fa944a4ed88ccef2192273cfa11.png

 

Yea, he had a good 11 pass game. It's more impressive they held Dak to a 70.7 rating and 0 tds and an int. 

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1 minute ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Yea, he had a good 11 pass game. It's more impressive they held Dak to a 70.7 rating and 0 tds and an int. 

 

So I guess Dalton isn't so "hapless".

 

And yes, very impressive giving up only 37 points.  😂

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2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

So I guess Dalton isn't so "hapless".

 

And yes, very impressive giving up only 37 points.  😂

 

They held dallas to 30 points, which is about where you expect a middle of the pack defense to hold a Dak lead Cowboys team. Dalton scored a whopping 6 points when he had his own drives against the Giants. 😂 If you think Arizona is holding a Dak lead Cowboys team to 10 points I don't know what to tell you. Lol. 

Edited by GOATFrerotte
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Allen shows promise but the turnovers are such a killer.  I like some of what I saw though so it will be interesting to see it play out.  I saw an article where Brian Mitchell said we shouldn't draft a QB high until we fix the rest of the team.  I don't agree with that.  Fix the rest of the team first and even with average (or maybe below aveage) QBs like Allen and Haskins) and I think we win too many games to make a top 5 pick at QB.  Personally, I think you've got to go with what you think is a franchise QB when you suck and have a  high draft pick.  If your team around the QB is good enough so you're winning games with average play from the QB you won't have a high draft pick to pick a franchise QB.   I don't know, just makes sense to me...

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12 minutes ago, owa said:

I haven't been watching full-games for the most part.  I've just been watching highlights since I'm tired of the political ads and I'm tired of the protesting.     I just wanna see football and will be glad when it gets back to just being about football although, at this point,  I fear it never will again. I did watch the full game last Sunday though.  Allen shows promise but the turnovers are such a killer.  I like some of what I saw though so it will be interesting to see it play out.  I saw an article where Brian Mitchell said we shouldn't draft a QB high until we fix the rest of the team.  I don't agree with that.  Fix the rest of the team first and even with average (or maybe below aveage) QBs like Allen and Haskins) and I think we win too many games to make a top 5 pick at QB.  Personally, I think you've got to go with what you think is a franchise QB when you suck and have a  high draft pick.  If your team around the QB is good enough so you're winning games with average play from the QB you won't have a high draft pick to pick a franchise QB.   I don't know, just makes sense to me...

 

The first several sentences in your post are probably more appropriate for the Tailgate forum than this one. Just a heads up.

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5 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

The first several sentences in your post are probably more appropriate for the Tailgate forum than this one. Just a heads up.

Thanks, I edited out the first part.

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