joeken24

Ooooweee Dunbar wants to be traded!

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2 minutes ago, wtfskins said:

I guess that all depends how much he wants.  But ya he is worth something. I tried to be on the band wagon of not laying guys but that’s the reality of things now guys get paid whether we agree or not.  He is a solid solid player.


And good corners who play ~75% of the time shouldn’t be paid 10% or more of your cap. Does Dunbar’s play justify near a tenth of the cap? Given his PFF ratings, you can bet that’s a deal his agent is going to try for, if not more. I don’t think he gets that, but he may. 
 

Signing your own is one thing. Completely overpaying is another. Dunbar is not the player that you give 1/10th of your cap dollars to.  He, while very very good, hasn’t made enough of an impact defensively to justify that dollar figure.

 

Sure, if he comes in lower you absolutely talk in over. But I don’t think he will given his ratings. 

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I'd pay the man, he is a good but not great corner so his contract should be manageable nothing crazy, otherwise trade him. Our homegrown talent must be frustrated that guys like Collins, Norman and Richardson come get big contracts here but guys like Murphy, Preston, Breeland are let go.

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He doesn't want to be here. I don't blame him, really. Though we're in a new and more promising regime now, he's under no obligation to suffer through this cluster-**** organization's current reclamation project, taking paychecks from the same man largely responsible for the mess in the first place. Just let him go. It isn't healthy for a team to carry a malcontent, especially if the idea is to start anew.

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2 hours ago, KDawg said:


You cannot just release him. You HAVE to try to get assets for him. If you don’t you’re performing malpractice as the GM of a football team.


Worst case he holds out of OTAs and plays out the last year of his deal. It’s a contract year so he’s incented to play well. Then he leaves next offseason on a contract that likely gets us a third round comp pick. 
 

So there is no way you release him. And there is also no way you take less than a third or second round pick in a trade.

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57 minutes ago, MartinC said:


Worst case he holds out of OTAs and plays out the last year of his deal. It’s a contract year so he’s incented to play well. Then he leaves next offseason on a contract that likely gets us a third round comp pick. 
 

So there is no way you release him. And there is also no way you take less than a third or second round pick in a trade.

Quoted for truth.

 

Though after this February-0th meeting, if they decide they want Dunny to be part of their core guys, I have no problem with them extending him.

 

My issue really is with the timing of Dunny’s announcement.  We’re a little less than 2 months away from OTAs and the off season workout program.  The new coaching staff and FO have been here for just over a month.  
 

If you really want a new deal, pick up the phone, have conversations with them and work it out.  If there still a problem when OTAs roll around and you want to make your position public, I understand.  
 

But he says he’s not participating in voluntary workouts and drills, and those don’t start until April. 
 

It’s just poorly timed. 

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Something to think about... 

 

Dunbar, like Trent, has been one of the few openly vocal players directing their ire towards Larry Hess and the Athletic Training Staff. He was pretty much openly celebrating Hess’s removal on twitter recently. 
 

So I’d venture to guess that he’s telling Ron and co. that his injury issues weren’t his fault and shouldn’t be used against him in contractual matters. Maybe they disagreed, and that’s where the trade request came from. Or maybe he just asked for guarantees because of what happened previously and they’re like “bro, don’t judge us on that, you’ll be taken care of now” and he isn’t giving them the benefit of the doubt. 
 

I know it’s being reported like he just randomly requested a trade but I doubt he, or his agent really, hasn’t at least had some form level of communication with the new regime. 
 

Just speculation on my end, though, so maybe it is exactly as it’s been reported. But I do find it interesting that he’s another guy with a recent injury history that wasn’t happy with Hess’s ATS and wants guaranteed money going into the remainder of his contract.
 

Hard for me to think that has nothing to do with this, but I won’t be surprised if it doesn’t either. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Edited by thesubmittedone
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39 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

There’s a difference between not healing from injuries and always having new injuries.


You’d be surprised.

 

Many injuries in sports fall under the overuse type. Not being fully healed in one area can often lead to other injuries as the body compensates. Hence, a “new” injury not really being new, but just another symptom of the root cause. 
 

But that’s neither here nor there.
 

Dunbar could be mad about one or two specific injuries or just in general. We don’t know. What we do know is that he wasn’t happy with Hess and the ATS. How much that has to do with what’s happening now is anyone’s guess, but it’s something to think about. At least it is for me, lol. 


I don’t really have much of a position on this, right or wrong, yet. I wasn’t saying Dunbar is in the right, nor was I attempting to place any blame on any “side” here. I hope I made that clear in my previous post. 

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1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:


You’d be surprised.

 

Many injuries in sports fall under the overuse type. Not being fully healed in one area can often lead to other injuries as the body compensates. Hence, a “new” injury not really being new, but just another symptom of the root cause. 
 

But that’s neither here nor there.
 

Dunbar could be mad about one or two specific injuries or just in general. We don’t know. What we do know is that he wasn’t happy with Hess and the ATS. How much that has to do with what’s happening now is anyone’s guess, but it’s something to think about. At least it is for me, lol. 


I don’t really have much of a position on this, right or wrong, yet. I wasn’t saying Dunbar is in the right, nor was I attempting to place any blame on any “side” here. I hope I made that clear in my previous post. 

Fair enough. 
 

it just seems like Dunbar is using every excuse in the book to maximize his value. Nothing wrong with it but it tells me that he’s gonna be a player that never plays up to the contract he eventually gets. He’s gonna be all potential from here on out as in any day he’s going to go from being very good to elite but it never actually happens. Similar to the expectations of Kirk. There’s always going to be something that prevents him from moving up to that top tier. But he’ll be 28 at the start of the season. CB, unlike QB don’t get better with age.

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9 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said:

He doesn't want to be here. I don't blame him, really. Though we're in a new and more promising regime now, he's under no obligation to suffer through this cluster-**** organization's current reclamation project, taking paychecks from the same man largely responsible for the mess in the first place. Just let him go. It isn't healthy for a team to carry a malcontent, especially if the idea is to start anew.

He doesn't want to be here because he was one of those guys who were happy with club Jay and was ok with going 3-13 as long as he gots his (My thoughts on the matter)

He doesn't seem to have much interest in being on a tightly run ship, and I suspect Trent is in the same boat.

I say offload the both of them.

There is fantastic options in the draft at CB this year, I'm sure we can find another guy to take his place and maybe play more than 8-10 games a season. Even if the guy is worse he's still better by default if he's available.

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5 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:


You’d be surprised.

 

Many injuries in sports fall under the overuse type. Not being fully healed in one area can often lead to other injuries as the body compensates. Hence, a “new” injury not really being new, but just another symptom of the root cause. 
 

But that’s neither here nor there.
 

Dunbar could be mad about one or two specific injuries or just in general. We don’t know. What we do know is that he wasn’t happy with Hess and the ATS. How much that has to do with what’s happening now is anyone’s guess, but it’s something to think about. At least it is for me, lol. 


I don’t really have much of a position on this, right or wrong, yet. I wasn’t saying Dunbar is in the right, nor was I attempting to place any blame on any “side” here. I hope I made that clear in my previous post. 

 

I have no doubt he has a legitimate concern. it's proved out that while some of Trent's issue was of his own doing, the medical staff left a lot to be desired. But they are gone now and there is a new FO basically and definitely a new HC. Both have barely had time to get to know who is one the team much less determine which contracts/players need the most attention. Why issue this ultimatum now? He is opening himself up to be the example of this FO establishing themselves as not being bullied. 

 

In fairness I am sure you are right that he has had some kind of contact. Maybe they already told him he was not getting what he wanted. But i am just not sure this timing will help him the way he wants. His injury history - even if it's at least part to blame on the previous medical staff - is still going to prevent him from getting top money, here or anywhere. 

 

I hope it works out for him as I tend to support the players. But I also have to admit feeling like if he doesn't want to be here, move him. As a new regime coming in, while you want to be able to show compassion for the players, you can't let yourself be bullied. 

 

It will be interesting to see how this turns out - how does the FO handle it? Do they "give in" and give him a new contract? Do they move him? If so, what can they get for him? Do they ignore him feeling he as a contract he either plays or not. How does Dunbar come out of it? 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Burgold said:

So, Dunbar was the best corner in the league. Moreau was the 4th. Yet somehow we had one of the worst pass defenses in NFL history? Methinks something is rotten in Denmark's rating algorithm.

 

Well you have to factor in the time that Josh Norman was on the field.

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9 hours ago, MartinC said:


Worst case he holds out of OTAs and plays out the last year of his deal. It’s a contract year so he’s incented to play well. Then he leaves next offseason on a contract that likely gets us a third round comp pick. 
 

So there is no way you release him. And there is also no way you take less than a third or second round pick in a trade.

What you are saying is logical.   Okay he sits out OTA's.  But your right it is a contract year so there is his incentive.   And the Skins don't lose with what you have pointed out here. 

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9 hours ago, MartinC said:


Worst case he holds out of OTAs and plays out the last year of his deal. It’s a contract year so he’s incented to play well. Then he leaves next offseason on a contract that likely gets us a third round comp pick. 
 

So there is no way you release him. And there is also no way you take less than a third or second round pick in a trade.

 

I get what you are saying but if he does ball out, is the team paying him? If so, you will pay a lot more than giving him and extension now. To me this pretty much guarantees he is a one year rental. If he plays like crap or is mostly injured, he will not be resigned. If he balls out, he will become too expensive. So in the end all you got out of him was 1 yrs play and maybe, maybe a comp pick. But that comp pick will be another year later and is unlikely to much more than a 4th which is really a 5th. 

 

I agree no reason to release him at all. Even a 1 yr rental is better than releasing. But as for a trade, not sure I follow the value here. No one is giving a 2nd for him. I believe about the highest someone offers for an oft injured CB that is squabbling with his current team is a 4th. For me, if they could get a 3rd for him, you move him assuming that's the direction the team has decided to go in. I have no problem trying to get what you can for him, but if someone gives what looks to be a high 4th, that is still better than a maybe comp pick the following season. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Blue Collar Skins said:

 

Well you have to factor in the time that Josh Norman was on the field.

 

Norman was bad... but, since you bring it up...

 

With Norman playing the team allowed:

 

12 games. 2758 passing yards ( 230/gm), 290 pts ( 24.1/gm) and had 19 turnovers ( 1.58/gm)

 

Without Norman playing:

 

4 games. 1165 passing yards ( 292/gm), 125 pts ( 31.25/gm) and had 2 turnovers ( 0.5 /gm)

 

Granted, there are many factors involved in both sets of numbers. Norman appears to have a high burn rate, per PFF. And we all know he got abused more than once. But how are they calculating that rate? Assumed coverage calls? It's a shoddy metric.

 

Dunbar is likely a better corner at this juncture than Norman. However, let's not pretend like Norman sitting totally fixed everything. We all thought it would be that way and we saw it that way because of that.

 

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Norman was bad... but, since you bring it up...

 

With Norman playing the team allowed:

 

12 games. 2758 passing yards ( 230/gm), 290 pts ( 24.1/gm) and had 19 turnovers ( 1.58/gm)

 

Without Norman playing:

 

4 games. 1165 passing yards ( 292/gm), 125 pts ( 31.25/gm) and had 2 turnovers ( 0.5 /gm)

 

Granted, there are many factors involved in both sets of numbers. Norman appears to have a high burn rate, per PFF. And we all know he got abused more than once. But how are they calculating that rate? Assumed coverage calls? It's a shoddy metric.

 

Dunbar is likely a better corner at this juncture than Norman. However, let's not pretend like Norman sitting totally fixed everything. We all thought it would be that way and we saw it that way because of that.

 

 

I just know that every play that involved Norman, passing was awful. Without Norman it was a completely different defense.

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@goskins10  Haven’t really thought this through (I’m still waking up), but that extra year gives you more time to find a replacement and to see what you have, right?

I tend to agree that there’s a good chance we don’t get such a high draft pick.  Injury issue for one, but also teams looking at their draft boards (and this is a deep draft) are going to be weighing 4 years of a rookie contract vs a 1 year rental.  Yes, they could sign him to an extension, but then you’re weighing both injury and the significant cap hit vs a promising rookie on a cheap contract.  Almost think you’d be better off trading him after the draft (but maybe not).  
 

 

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1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

@goskins10  Haven’t really thought this through (I’m still waking up), but that extra year gives you more time to find a replacement and to see what you have, right?

I tend to agree that there’s a good chance we don’t get such a high draft pick.  Injury issue for one, but also teams looking at their draft boards (and this is a deep draft) are going to be weighing 4 years of a rookie contract vs a 1 year rental.  Yes, they could sign him to an extension, but then you’re weighing both injury and the significant cap hit vs a promising rookie on a cheap contract.  Almost think you’d be better off trading him after the draft (but maybe not).  
 

 

 

My vote is to trade him - get what you can and start looking for your replacement now not in a year. If you are moving in a different direction my believe is do it sooner rather than later. 

 

I would not want them to pay say top 5 CB money. It's just too much for a guy with injury issues, soi I agree with you there. 

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4 minutes ago, Blue Collar Skins said:

 

I just know that every play that involved Norman, passing was awful. Without Norman it was a completely different defense.

 

Yes. It allowed more points, more yards in the air and forced less turnovers.

 

And Norman was poor. Poor may even be generous.

 

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Man, I gotta say, maybe the biggest reason why I want to see this team improve is that the fanbase might lose some of the snottiness and show some support for the players again.

 

We're not gonna live or die based on whether Dunbar plays this year. I have faith that Rivera will deal with this situation in a professional manner and whatever happens, happens. IMO a large part of deciding who is on the roster next February is going to be based on whether or not guys buy in to what Ron and JDR expect. That's not about talent or production, that's largely a question of character and attitude.

 

If Dunbar doesn't want to ride with it for two years to see any benefits from it, ok, then deal him and wish him well. I'm tired of hearing players leave here and talk **** over their shoulder on the way out the door. It feels like some of this might be driven by his agent, etc., but in the end the player owns what's said on his behalf. QD won't be the last guy we see a thread about, part of what RR has to do is weed out players that are not willing to see that higher goal of complete team success. Doesn't mean you aren't good or can't play, or even that we don't like ya, it's just a matter of fit. This new iteration of the Skins is going to have to do penance for past mistakes, they'll be taken to task for things they didn't do but hey, when is life fair? I'm hoping that the FO can weather this in a responsible fashion, find some mutually agreeable resolution and shake his hand, like, I dunno, adults. It's the same kind of result I want to see with Trent. Whether he plays with us again or not, the guy deserves some respect, deserves to be treated like a man and not just some tool you used up threw away. That to me is the tone you want to set for the rooks, that when the day comes they too will be treated fairly, and not like some girl that turned Bruce Allen down for the prom.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Blue Collar Skins said:

 

I just know that every play that involved Norman, passing was awful. Without Norman it was a completely different defense.

Nah, not completely different. The D improved, but was still awful.

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14 hours ago, KDawg said:


You cannot just release him. You HAVE to try to get assets for him. If you don’t you’re performing malpractice as the GM of a football team.

Yea trading is definitely the move. Overlooked it in the post. But I was mainly looking at it from Dunbar's point of view. Getting traded might be a catastrophic move for him. Particularly if he's traded to a team that is stingy and/or not competitive.

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I understand many of you that are on the side of the team. Personally, I am hoping for a win/win because I like Dunbar and how he plays the game. I can't help but to think that there was a conversation between someone in the organization and QD and/or his agent before he went rogue. Regardless, I want every player in the league to be able to play the game they love and take care of their family at the salary level conducive to their play on the field. Right now, Dunbar is going into the new season with probably less money than some of us in this thread. God forbid he get's injured in OTA's or even during the season. The game checks stop. No money coming into the household. I also can't get too much on Dunbar because this was some Bruce ****. As much as we said we were impressed with how we had stopped overspending on players and all the Vinny ****, we probably have no idea how ****ed up the books and the contracts are moving forward. Dunbar's contract is ****ed up IMO. It needs fixin. A part of fixing this team's culture is to ensure players are paid. That's rule number one in the military. Have soldiers in the field with a no pay due and see what happens.

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