What Offer Would Change Your Mind on Trading Down???

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's not purely about jersey sales.  And it's not about me.  Based on how you responded I don't think you feel my point on this at all.  So I am not explaining it well.  So I'll leave it alone especially since its gravy its not the center plot.

 

 

I get your point on wanting a chance to possibly make sure the dline is an elite unit versus jus hoping Del Rio can even get them to all play to their potential.  And ya, I've been beaten down into acceptance that 4-3 DE probably is a need because we only have one that truly fits what we need in Sweat, Kerrigan ain't it anymore, if he ever was if we used him that way.

 

But the jersey sales line wasnt a minimizing shot at your point that is borderline off-topic, but still relevant.  I'd rather talk about it in say "the fan interest" thread so we can really dig in on that, with respect that I live in the area (born and raised) and see how bad it's gotten everyday. My belief (and thisbis my opinion) that fixing that first is more efficient then trying to fix the national stage problem directly. 

 

I'm not saying what you talking about what you see in Florida doesnt matter, I'm saying it needs a different approach and prioritization to the fan intrest issue here in DC area.  Young probably will help the national fan interest, and I want to make clear that I'm not saying it doesnt matter, I'm not saying fans outside DC area do not matter.  

 

But if getting folks back in the stadium isnt the first step in addressing that, it has to be 1a.  They still calling me about 50 yard line row 1 season tickets in 104, those should be gone by now.  I dont want to draft Young for fan interest reasons, winning will help those other players that can and should be stars get back in national conversation. 

 

Collins was a fan favorite in NY and all-pro player, but hes now on a team with a fan base that has lost one maybe two whole generations worth of fans.  You already have those players here, but the situation with this franchise became so toxic that he became jus another player in the soup.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

@Skinsinparadise 
 

I don’t know. That kind of attention just isn’t important in my eyes. I want guys who can play and if it leads to them getting recognized, great.

 

I've flat out mentioned someone like you (or me, etc) isn't my targeted audience on this part of my point.  Not even close.  If the average Redskin fan were the average poster on Extremeskins, we'd easily fill a 100,000 stadium every week and top the TV ratings and all that jazz.   And people like Peter King wouldn't be saying we are bleeding fans. 

 

And the argument isn't either do all the best players get the buzz they deserve.  I would argue that most of them indeed do.  Jamal Adams still gets plenty of hype more than any Redskins defender nationally and its not even close.  I agree with your point about some players get more buzz than they deserve and some less.  And yeah O lineman get the short shrift on that front and skilled players often get more than they deserve.  But that's not really my point either.   

 

I am making two points simultaneously.  One of which is hard to defeat IMO and the other is easy to defeat if it's twisted in a different direction than my intended point.  The hard to defeat point is the elite player point.  I don't think we had a single top 100 player voted by fellow NFL players or the PFF guys or most categories last year.  And most years we don't either or at the very least they aren't typically top 50. 

 

I am not shooting that high here.  I am not talking top 10.  I am talking top 100.  Maybe we can argue we have some players who deserve to be top 75ish, etc.  But top 10 or even top 20 would be comical.  And sadly that's been the case through most of Dan's tenure with an occasional exception -- the ones that come to me is maybe Trent (unfortunately though he misses too many games to be a top 20 guy IMO) and Sean in his last season.

 

Getting an elite player is a novel run for Dan's Redskins for the most part.  I think that point is hard to argue,

 

The point that is easy to argue against is the buzz-jersey sale, fan excitement point.  But its only easy to argue against IMO if the point gets twisted in a different direction from the point I am actually making.  The point I am actually making isn't 

 

A.  What drives fans like me and you.

B.  It's more important than winning or close enough

 

If people want to take it in that direction, I'll say they won.  I'll take the loss.  I have no way to argue the point with those angles.  But that's not my angle so it's a false debate.  I am not saying people are doing that intentionally, like I said I am clearly doing a poor job of articulating it.  So it's on me.   I am trying to make a more simple and nuanced point. 

 

If we are talking pure nuanced point.  My point is based on these 3 premises

A.  The team is bleeding fans.  (most fans are casual fans as opposed to being like us)

B.  It's not doing hot with the next generation of fans (younger ones) who IMO are more player centric

C.  If you aren't winning then the one thing that helps salvage seasons like that with CASUAL fans and younger fans (the typical fans) is to have some exciting players that they will come to see.

 

So Chase coming in potentially with that type of buzz IMO is a BONUS.  Not the main plot.  I do think one (among many) of the reasons why this team is bleeding fans and arguably not picking up the next generation that easily is they don't have the modern Sean Taylor or name that star player that other teams have with national hype whether its McCaffrey, Julio Jones or name a series of dudes.  We've not had a dude like that in a long time.  But if the argument here turns back to whether that's more important than winning -- I'll concede defeat -- but I am not an idiot of course winning is more important.😀 That's why I've expressed it as gravy not the main plot.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I get your point on wanting a chance to possibly make sure the dline is an elite unit versus jus hoping Del Rio can even get them to all play to their potential.  And ya, I've been beaten down into acceptance that 4-3 DE probably is a need because we only have one that truly fits what we need in Sweat, Kerrigan ain't it anymore, if he ever was if we used him that way.

 

But the jersey sales line wasnt a minimizing shot at your point that is borderline off-topic, but still relevant.  I'd rather talk about it in say "the fan interest" thread so we can really dig in on that, with respect that I live in the area (born and raised) and see how bad it's gotten everyday. My belief (and thisbis my opinion) that fixing that first is more efficient then trying to fix the national stage problem directly. 

 

I'm not saying what you talking about what you see in Florida doesnt matter, I'm saying it needs a different approach and prioritization to the fan intrest issue here in DC area.  Young probably will help the national fan interest, and I want to make clear that I'm not saying it doesnt matter, I'm not saying fans outside DC area do not matter.  

 

But if getting folks back in the stadium isnt the first step in addressing that, it has to be 1a.  They still calling me about 50 yard line row 1 season tickets in 104, those should be gone by now.  I dont want to draft Young for fan interest reasons, winning will help those other players that can and should be stars get back in national conversation. 

 

 

 

 

I responded to @KDawg's post before reading this post.

 

But yeah thanks I do think this follows my train of thought decently with an exception.   You hit the issue that this team needs some type of jolt with the fan base.  Yeah that's part of my point.  

 

But the point you seem to miss is my reason for drafting Young has ZERO to do it with it.   Nothing, nada, zilch.  😀 I said its a bonus.  

 

It's like eating a great meal and they give you a gift certificate at the end to your favorite dessert place.  You didn't go to the restaurant for the dessert.   But heck it's kind of cool that you got that, too. 

[36HAMMER]

It costs you nothing to listen  kick the tires and do your due diligence on  Young all the while pick up the phone and listen and talk . we don't need to trade so be comfortable with our option but business enough to listen . At least RG3 territory trade wise , though I also was thinkin about the Chargers and getting  Derwin James and some picks.

[mhd24]

I think a Miami trade down is probably #5+#18+#56+2021 3rd

 

Is that enough to give up Young?  I think Detroit races to pick Young, but what happens if they get bowled over for someone to take Herbert?  Suddenly, the Giants are sitting there and they can take Young.  I don't think we can risk that happening.

 

If we traded down, we'd probably take Okudah at 5, Queen/Murray at #18, and Troutman at #56.  Is that enough for Young?  I'm actually leaning towards staying put and taking Young.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@mhd24 the mocks I have run are similar in terms of players taken in that range. For me it’s not enough. 
 

I assume we will fill some big needs via FA. We have the cap room to get stuff done. CB, FS, G and TE shouldn’t be “major holes” come draft time. 
 

The only scenario I would be happy with a trade down is if we got 5-18-26 and somehow were able to land LB Simmons + WR Riggs  + OT Thomas/Becton ... because that gives you an IMPACT defender and 2 high upside talents to build around on offense. Otherwise I take Young and the chances of landing those 3 even if you got those picks is no where near a guarantee. If we signed Ngakue in FA this would be a great scenario.

[mistertim]

22 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I see.  So are we saying we only have one 4-3 DE in Sweat and not counting Kerrigan?

 

This sounds like a set up for someone who's moving to 4-3 DT ending up odd man out.  I'd like to look around some more on Allen's pass rushing techniques and abilities along with how to get out best linemen on the field to cause double teams. 

 

I'll admit I was bothered about the 4-3 change because I felt wed lose Allen to FA because of wanting to start over Ioannidis.  I'm going to look at free agent DEs as well.

 

Who is Yetur Gross-Matos?

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/12/31/21035514/washington-redskins-2020-draft-profiles-yetur-gross-matos-edge-penn-state

 

I think Sweat is our only young 4-3 DE with tons of promise and potential to be great. Kerrigan is definitely a 4=3 DE but he is what he is: getting older, good but not great, doesn't command double teams, etc. I love the dude as a Redskin but I feel like he's at the point where he may be heading out as having him as a backup at his salary would be cost prohibitive. But if we didn't draft Chase Young for whatever reason he'd probably end up staying and being one of our DEs.

 

Outside of those guys we have a few others who I think can play 4-3 DE. I think Ryan Anderson can but I don't see him as a guy who'd be more than "decent" there; he's not overly athletic or explosive, isn't that flexible, and his size is also bit small for the position; I'd see him as more of a rotational player between SAM and occasionally DE. There are guys like Nate Orchard and Cassanova McKinzy who have shown flashes and could certainly play 4-3 DE but does anyone realistically see those guys as becoming anything other than decent rotational players? Certainly none of them are even in the same echelon as Chase is as far as potential to be a superstar. You bring in a Chase Young and put him opposite Sweat and with our current interior talent you could instantly upgrade your DL from good to terrifying. 

 

As far as "odd man out" on the interior I'm not really sure there is such a thing. Interior DL is probably the most subbed position there is. Or at least it's close. We currently have an awesome rotation there with Allen + Ioannidis as 3 techs and Payne + Settle as 1 techs (that's assuming more of a Under or Over style of defense). I don't really even think of interior DL as "starters" or "non-starters". You rotate them out a bunch and keep them fresh. Also come up with creative packages to use them in.

 

One thing we could end up running into of course is salary as Allen will be on his last year of his rookie contract (though there's the fifth year option) and if he were to blow up this year it could get expensive to keep him. Payne is signed through 2021 that that's a bit further down the line (but still something to be watched for if he blows up as well). Ioannidis we now have signed through 2022. 

[ggarriso]

Random thought, if we stay and take Young this would be the fourth year in a row we used our first round pick on a DL/EDGE (not counting the Haskins debacle; we still took Sweat in the 1st) - that has to take its toll on the talent across the rest of the team - if you get a silly offer to get a ton of pieces, you have to take it

 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, ggarriso said:

Random thought, if we stay and take Young this would be the fourth year in a row we used our first round pick on a DL/EDGE (not counting the Haskins debacle; we still took Sweat in the 1st) - that has to take its toll on the talent across the rest of the team - if you get a silly offer to get a ton of pieces, you have to take it

 

 

Well, at least we're concentrating on the right place and not drafting a Safety in the 1st every year or something. I firmly believe in the adage of you can never have enough pass rushers. And I actually believe you can never have enough top notch DL in general...but pass rushers even more. I think it's true of OL as well but unfortunately we either haven't hit well enough on our later round OL picks (though Martin seems to be coming along pretty well) or we haven't really been in a position to draft a top OT (though we did draft a Guard in Scherff #5 overall in 2015).

 

I think us drafting Allen and Payne were mostly about circumstance. With Allen pretty much nobody believed he'd fall that far so when he fell to us it was an absolutely no-brainer BPA. With Payne I honestly think we panicked a bit and reached when there was better talent on the board. Luckily he still ended up being a very good player for us, but not a superstar like James, who we passed on (and who apparently many in the draft room wanted instead). 

 

But to me it's also about the type of talent. IMO a guy like Chase Young is a guy you simply don't pass on...I don't care how many 1st rounders you already have on your DL. He has the potential to be an absolute game wrecker that teams have to plan their entire offense around. And I don't think you can overstate the impact that can have. He's a once in a decade talent at quite possibly the second most important position in football behind QB. 

 

Obviously I'd listen to offers for a trade up. But it would have to be a HUGE offer to pass up on the kind of guy that likely won't come around again for many years. And even when another guy that good does come along again eventually we're unlikely to be in a spot to pick him because Edge prospects who are that good rarely get past #3 overall. Comparable Edge prospects like Von Miller, Julius Peppers, Clowney, Garrett, Mario Williams, all went top 2. Mack went #5. 

[Skins199021]

5, 18, 39, and a 2021 2nd from Miami definitely does it for me. I probably even do it without the 2021 pick.

[KDawg]

@Skinsinparadise good explanation to your point that is absolutely difficult to counter.

 

But I’ll try with a very simple take:

 

If this team were winning, wed see a more concentrated presence of Skins talked about in the elite category.

 

So now, the counter argument to me is: if this team were winning it would be because we had elite players.

 

To which I counter with: chicken or the egg. Then we stare at each other with blank expressions because neither of the sides have another move to make.

 

But I do think if this team were healthy and we won 10 games or so the last two years you’d be hearing about Peterson, McLaurin, Guice, Payne, Ioannidis on a much grander scale. Scherff, too.

 

Ifs and buts don’t cut it though. I agree. 
 

But I am a BIG believer that winning cures all. 
 

But I can’t counter any argument you come back with saying: “well, we’d be winning if we had talent” because, quite frankly, you’re right. 

[RWJ]

The ONLY was a trade goes down with the Skins is IF the Bengals take Young #1 overall.  If Bengals take Burrow, Skins should and in my mind have to take Young.  Too good of a talent to pass on. 

[mistertim]

I'm still not in any way convinced that Miami is going to try and trade up for Tua. They may call and inquire, but they'll know that we'd probably being asking for a king's ransom to pass on a potential generational prospect at such an important position, and they may very well not want to pay that much so it would be more like a phone call of curiosity. 

 

Even though his healing progress is apparently going pretty well, his injury was still severe. He's unlikely to work out at the combine and may not even be able to do any individual workouts or a pro day. Even if he does, throwing in shorts and a tshirt doesn't mean he's going to be the same player he was on the field. Plus he already had an injury history before his latest one. Giving up an enormous haul of high picks to move up for such a high risk player is an enormous gamble. Like, potentially career ending gamble for a HC and/or GM. 

 

I'm more inclined to believe that Miami will see how Tua's medical progress is and, if he passes that and can at least work out a little, then take him if he falls to them at 5. Though I've seen mocks where they actually get him at #18; if he falls past the Chargers and Raiders he may very well get there, though the Colts could be a wild card there as well. I've said this before but I think people may be underestimating how concerned teams will be about Tua's current and future health. 

[Renegade7]

@mistertim the person I have my eye on is Herbert.  Him wrecking the combine party would change the conversation whether Tua is healthy or not.  Teams lose all sense when they get desperate for QB.

 

Having said that, how bad do Raiders want to replace Mack with Young?  They have two first rounders and huge smoke on moving on from Carr.

[mistertim]

53 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@mistertim the person I have my eye on is Hibbert.  Him wrecking the combine party would change the conversation whether Tua is healthy or not.  Teams lose all sense when they get desperate for QB.

 

Having said that, how bad do Raiders want to replace Mack with Young?  They have two first rounders and huge smoke on moving on from Carr.

 

I assume you meant Herbert right? I'm not super high on him after watching him casually, but that doesn't necessarily mean that much since I haven't actually watched his cutups in depth. I do like some of his attributes and he's put up consistently good numbers and consistently improved, though I think his accuracy and decision making can be very on and off. I honestly wouldn't be that surprised at all if Herbert went before Tua.

 

Now, does that mean someone would offer a king's ransom to trade UP for Herbert? I sort of doubt it. But I could see a situation where Miami decides that Tua isn't worth the risk as a top 5 pick and decide to go with Herbert instead, especially if he blows them away during the combine and interviews. That or maybe they don't think Tua or Herbert are worth #5 overall and wait to see how far each falls. Then perhaps trade up a bit from 18 to get one of them (or take one at 18 if they think he'll fall that far). 

 

As far as replacing Mack with Young do you mean the Raiders trying to trade up to #2? Because that would require a HUGE investment. They're all the way down at 12 so I don't see any feasible way for them to move all the way up to 2 without literally giving up their entire draft as well as next year's 1st. Also, if they wanted to move on from Mack they'd be in absolute cap hell. If they cut him before this season he'd be $45.5 million in dead cap. That's catastrophic. He isn't going anywhere. 

[KDawg]

I think teams will wait to trade up for a QB until the second one is off the board. With Herbert making noise at the Senior Bowl and a little hype around him, and Tua still in some injury concern aspects, I’d say that currently no one is looking to trade with the Skins because both players are at similar levels.

 

If Tua’s workouts pop, things could change.
 

But right now I don’t see teams giving a ransom to move up when there is another highly touted QB right behind him.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I think teams will wait to trade up for a QB until the second one is off the board. With Herbert making noise at the Senior Bowl and a little hype around him, and Tua still in some injury concern aspects, I’d say that currently no one is looking to trade with the Skins because both players are at similar levels.

 

If Tua’s workouts pop, things could change.
 

But right now I don’t see teams giving a ransom to move up when there is another highly touted QB right behind him.

 

Agree. I think right now we're basically talking about a non-existent situation. It could change, but I don't think it's likely. I think Burrow (obviously), Herbert, and Tua will eventually all go in the top 15 or maybe even top 10, but I don't see any blockbuster trades for Herbert or Tua, outside of a team moving up one or two spots if one of them drops a bit. I don't see anyone giving up a king's ransom to move up to 2 for Tua or Herbert at the moment. Tua because of his injury and Herbert because I just don't think he's that good of a prospect. Certainly a good one, but not "I'll give up 3 1sts for him" good. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

@Skinsinparadise good explanation to your point that is absolutely difficult to counter.

 

But I’ll try with a very simple take:

 

If this team were winning, wed see a more concentrated presence of Skins talked about in the elite category.

 

So now, the counter argument to me is: if this team were winning it would be because we had elite players.

 

To which I counter with: chicken or the egg. Then we stare at each other with blank expressions because neither of the sides have another move to make.

 

But I do think if this team were healthy and we won 10 games or so the last two years you’d be hearing about Peterson, McLaurin, Guice, Payne, Ioannidis on a much grander scale. Scherff, too.

 

Ifs and buts don’t cut it though. I agree. 
 

But I am a BIG believer that winning cures all. 
 

But I can’t counter any argument you come back with saying: “well, we’d be winning if we had talent” because, quite frankly, you’re right. 

 

I agree that winning helps the case for players.  But I genuine do agree with PFF and to an extent with some of their grades and the players for NFL Network when they do their own rankings of each other, the All Pro voting, etc.  I don't think we got elite players who are just not recognized because we weren't winning.    The Redskins just don't do the elite players thing IMO.  With the possible exception of the two examples I've used.  Sean in his last season.  And Trent sort of.  What hurts Trent is he missed give or take 3 games almost every season in recent years.

 

Bad teams do get represented with players in the top 100 lists and do make All Pros.  Go through the lists which I did, plenty of bad teams represented.  

 

But I do think we might overvalue our own players because they are the best players to us.  But around the league, the Redskins I don't think are seen as a team with elite players-stars and that's been the case for most of Dan's tenure. 

 

I love Scherff but is he Zach Martin?  Is he Quenton Nelson?  Is he Yanda?  Nope IMO.  He's a very good guard.   I don't think he's great.   B plus player.

 

Daron Payne and Jonathan Allen also good players.  Is either Aaron Donald?  Fletcher Cox?  Payne and Allen are good players.  Not special or great.  They aren't the best of the best.  It's really laughable to even compare them to the greats in the game at that position.  Maybe someday they would be.  But not now.

 

Kerrigan is not Von Miller or K. Mack on and on.  I liked the Landon Collins singing as much as anyone but he's no J. Adams or Derwin James or Minkhah Fitzpatrick.  That's been the story for Dan's tenure.  Us not having a single first team All Pro player for 20 years aside from Turk is totally deserved IMO with the exception of Trent. 

 

I think Guice if he can stay healthy is potentially that.  McLaurin if he continues to grow might emerge into that.  

 

Our last playoff year, 2015, winning season.  We got Jordan Reed in the top 84 with PFF, that's it. 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-top-101-nfl-players-from-2015-nos-76-101

 

My point is I stress this as a bonus point for Chase Young, not the main plot.  Getting the most hyped player in the draft is a novel experience for this franchise (aside from 2012).  and if Chase emerges as one of the best players in the NFL, that's mostly a novel ride for this organization.   

 

Like I've been saying Cooley who has played for this franchise and has studied it since has played up for years finding a dominant-great player for a change.  Heck Portis alluded to it too saying they haven't been drafting high enough to land elite players and its been part of the soup of this team not taking that next step. 

 

Not that I think one player turns this around but I do think specifically he might have the domino effect needed to our D Line.    Payne and Allen for example might emerge to becoming great if they are working side by side with a great pass rusher.  Nick Bosa had a domino effect like that.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/16/nick-bosa-is-key-49ers-defensive-dominance/

 

Nick Bosa is the key to the 49ers’ defensive dominance

 

The NFL continues to become more reliant on passing plays and the teams with the best quarterbacks are among the more successful squads in the NFL. That makes it more critical than ever for a team to build an effective pass rush. And finding a player like San Francisco 49ers defensive end Nick Bosa, drafted No. 2 overall out of Ohio State in the 2019 draft, changed the direction of the franchise.

San Francisco had the 23rd-best defense overall last year per Football Outsiders after adjusting its success on every single play for situation and opponent. The pass defense was the sixth-worst of 2018. This season the 49ers’ defense rocketed to No. 2 overall with the second-best pass defense in the NFL. And much of that improvement is due to Bosa, the first 49ers rookie to be named to the Pro Bowl since Patrick Willis in 2007.

Richard Sherman is the Packers’ kryptonite, because Aaron Rodgers rarely throws at him

Coach Kyle Shanahan and defensive coordinator Robert Saleh were able to use Bosa’s speed-to-power ability in their wide-9 technique to isolate offensive tackles in space. Specifically, the edge rusher lines up outside of the tight end (or offensive tackle if no tight end is on the line of scrimmage) at an angle facing the quarterback. This creates opportunities for the edge rushers to beat pass blockers with speed on the outside and for an interior defensive linemen, such as DeForest Buckner, to win one-on-one battles inside. If Buckner can occupy the opposing center and right guard, Bosa and the other edge rushers can more easily attack the quarterback.

[KDawg]

@Skinsinparadise
 

I think Payne could be one of the best 1-techs in the league to be honest. Top 5 for sure. I don’t feel that way with Allen. Or Scherff. 
 

But teams and even players don’t always recognize you as one of the best if your teams are bad every year. I don’t see many Buffalo Bills on a top 100, but there’s a few who could be. Tre White, Trumaine Edmunds are two. 
 

Winning won’t expose 15 guys to suddenly be top 100 level players. That much I agree with. But if we were winning I guarantee players and all pro voters alike would find guys to put in that group. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

@Skinsinparadise
 

I think Payne could be one of the best 1-techs in the league to be honest. Top 5 for sure. I don’t feel that way with Allen. Or Scherff. 
 

But teams and even players don’t always recognize you as one of the best if your teams are bad every year. I don’t see many Buffalo Bills on a top 100, but there’s a few who could be. Tre White, Trumaine Edmunds are two. 
 

Winning won’t expose 15 guys to suddenly be top 100 level players. That much I agree with. But if we were winning I guarantee players and all pro voters alike would find guys to put in that group. 

 

Aside from Trent, what players do you think we got that are elite now though?  Top 3 in the league at their position or close to it but aren't recognized for it?  My point is we simply haven't had those guys.  The Giants as an example have been worse than us but they have been recognized for having those type of players. 

 

It doesn't have to be a theoretical argument.    Should Scherff be mentioned as just as good a guard as Quenton Nelson?  Is Daron Payne just as good as Aaron Donald?  Kerrigan deserves to be considered on par with Von Miller?  Landon Collins with Jammal Adams and Derwin James?

 

What player do we have that you think is elite?  I am not talking could be, might be, but is?

 

You mentioned Jamal Adams in another post.  Jamal has been ranked in the top 20 by PFF.   He has been a first team All Pro.  The players put him in their top 40 best players ranking.    He's elite and actually recognized as such, too. 

 

 

[KDawg]

Daron Payne and Aaron Donald don’t play the same position...

[redskinss]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

As far as replacing Mack with Young do you mean the Raiders trying to trade up to #2? Because that would require a HUGE investment. They're all the way down at 12 so I don't see any feasible way for them to move all the way up to 2 without literally giving up their entire draft as well as next year's 1st. Also, if they wanted to move on from Mack they'd be in absolute cap hell. If they cut him before this season he'd be $45.5 million in dead cap. That's catastrophic. He isn't going anywhere. 

Mack doesn't play for the raiders anymore.

 

I assume he just meant replace him because they traded him to the bears not release him and replace him.

[LD0506]

Funny, I hear people saying we ought to trade off an asset (the #2 pick) for a fortune in lesser assets because we are a bad team with many needs and we ought to maximize the opportunity.

 

Isn't this essentially what Miami did? dealt off assets to gain multiple picks to grab as many upgrades as they can to try and quick fix a bad team? But now, we think they will just bundle them all up and trade it all to us for one single shot at a QB.

 

Miami took a huge gamble, lost valuable assets and accepted a losing season in order to bank on a brighter future. Now that's here and we think they are going to dump it all, first rounders (plural) this year along with 2s, next year's picks, yadda yadda yadda, because we are now the magpie chasing the shiny?

 

Let Miami do Miami, let Detroit Detroit, don't sweat what others do, make the choice that works best here, do your own job and stop with the fantasies.

 

Young will be a nice pick, but this season won't live or die on any pick, it will be decided by the work done by the organization to best use the assets we do have.

 

I trot to the podium with Young's name and never look back.

[mistertim]

36 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Mack doesn't play for the raiders anymore.

 

I assume he just meant replace him because they traded him to the bears not release him and replace him.

 

Sorry, I was thinking the Bears, not Raiders. Brain fart. Yeah I'm sure the Raiders would absolutely love to replace Mack with Young, but it isn't going to happen. To move to #2 from #12 they'd probably have to give up 3 1sts, 2 2nds, and probably some extra mid round picks and players. Because that would move the Skins completely out of the territory of getting one of the elite picks in the draft. I couldn't see the Skins moving any lower than 5. And that's if they even entertain offers or get any, which they may not. 

[dyst]

Why do people want all 3 from Miami in this years draft? If you are going to trade with them, its better to get #5 this year and their #1 in 2021 and 2022 instead.