BBC: China pneumonia outbreak: COVID-19 Global Pandemic

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I'd definitely go to this liquor store lol...

 

 

 

 

[Corcaigh]

Drink responsibly. 🤣

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

This is more where the discussion is.  HOW MUCH freedom are we willing to give up in the face of this pandemic?  What other situations are we willing to give up levels of freedom for?  And another important question we are seeing arise is at what level does that authority rest?  Trump, governors, mayors?

 

I'm surprised other people aren't more worried about this but in the era of Trump and the GOP, I'm more hesitant than ever to sit back and let rights be increasingly limited.

 

Yeah, I don't know about all this taking your rights away. You still have the right to go outside and get infected with the virus. You have the freedom. The government is not trying to take your rights away it is this ****ing virus that the government is trying to control and the only way to do that, right now, is to isolate the host the virus loves to eat and make it dead.

 

I don't like politics or try to have a political conversion but you are paranoid at best right now. Understandable. What I don't get is why get riled up for something that is not going to happen. Do you really think that people won't revolt if that happens? Don't we elect officials to protect us? Isn't that what the government is trying to do with the taxes you pay? By limiting your movement they are trying to limit the movement of the virus. Seems like a no brainer for me. Maybe because I understand basic biology 101. 

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I want to make clear that I’m not even pretending to have all the answers or really any of the answers.  More just airing my concerns.  And I think it is an important conversation to have.  It is a lot harder to get rights back once you have given them away.  Bringing up the Patriot Act is good here, though I’m not sure you meant for it to be used this way.  I’ve been against much of the Patriot Act, then and now.  And much of the “rights” that were given up to “combat terrorism” we will probably never get back.

 

I meant it, as a privacy advocate and living in DC when they signed it so seeing that conversation in real time on what rights they would take and we'd never get back in the name of safety.  It was an evolving, moving target with the wrong people pulling the trigger, we all knew it and re-elected Bush anyway.

 

They said it was to protect us, terrorism is different, but I was concerned as a teenager being told certain rights I had to give up to be safe and never getting them back.  In context here, in thinking how much power the government has to protect me and totally respect once that precedent is set it's nearly impossible to get that power back from the executive branch.  We are lucky Trump doesn't want to do it.

 

It is two conversations at the same time, and I think you right, probably belongs in the "Opening Up" thread. Standing down here.

 

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Now I’m limiting how much I am going out not because of any restriction in place but because I’m not a ****ing idiot.  But having the government greatly restrict my liberty makes me scared (for my rights, not because of the virus.  That scares me on its own.).  Where do we draw the line for what we are willing to allow them do?  And what level does/should that power rest?

 

Get it, I just think your concern isn't applicable here because Trump is afraid to do it because of how it affects the economy and his poll numbers.  If he went all in on Martial Law like some people wanted we would be in trouble even if it could be scientifically justified to fight the virus. He'd be "right" and abuse it at the same time.

 

Quote

ADD:  My “freedom isn’t free” lines were meant more to show that we as a society accept a level of death and danger to have certain freedoms.  We allow people to drive despite how many deaths result of it.  In many areas, we allow unvaccinated children to commingle with others.  Now one of those is certainly a need and we do as much as reasonably possible to limit the carnage.  The other is just ****ing stupid.  But where does the line fall between the two?  And seeing the way the courts are getting stacked, I’m scared to let them decide either.

 

This is why we vote.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Renegade7

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

32 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Now I’m limiting how much I am going out not because of any restriction in place but because I’m not a ****ing idiot.  But having the government greatly restrict my liberty makes me scared (for my rights, not because of the virus.  That scares me on its own.).  Where do we draw the line for what we are willing to allow them do?  And what level does/should that power rest?

Is it fair to say that our country has an abundance of idiots?  We've seen it on full display throughout this whole ordeal.  It'd be nice if we could simply trust people to do the right thing, but we've learned time and time again that we can't. 

[China]

Delaware sewers may hold better evidence on true spread of coronavirus

 

NEW CASTLE COUNTY, Delaware (WPVI) -- Testing people may not be the best way to see how much coronavirus is in a community. Testing sewers may be better.

 

New Castle County, Delaware is analyzing its sewers in a high-tech way to track the amount of coronavirus in the county.

 

An analysis made by BioBot, a startup connected to MIT, estimates more than 15,000 COVID-19 infections as of April 15, 10 times what conventional tests confirmed.

 

BioBot looks for traces of the virus in wastewater.

 

The company was founded by female scientists at MIT.

 

BioBot's tests in Los Angeles County roughly aligned with what antibody tests showed.

 

New Castle County is doing weekly wastewater tests with BioBot.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Kansas Man Chugged Cleaning Product After Trump’s Disinfectant Comments

 

He obviously didn’t pick up on the sarcasm. A Kansas man drank a disinfectant product over the weekend after President Donald Trump pondered out loud whether ingesting cleansers could help fight COVID-19. Lee Norman, the state’s health officer, appeared to blame Trump when he said the man drank the product “because of the advice he’d received.” He added that Kansas Poison Control Center has reported a more than 40 percent increase in cleaning-chemical cases. Meanwhile, the Food and Drug Administration has asked manufacturers making hand sanitizer to make sure their products don’t taste or smell nice so kids and teens will stop drinking it. In a Monday advisory, the agency said that calls to the National Poison Data System about hand sanitizer were up by 79 percent last month, compared to March 2019. “Hand sanitizers are not proven to treat COVID-19, and like other products meant for external use, are not for ingestion, inhalation, or intravenous use,” FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn said.

[Larry]

Obviously a crisis actor, trying to make Donald Trump look bad.  

[China]

Virus Likely to Keep Coming Back Each Year, Say Top Chinese Scientists

 

Chinese scientists say the novel coronavirus will not be eradicated, adding to a growing consensus around the world that the pathogen will likely return in waves like the flu.

 

It’s unlikely the new virus will disappear the way its close cousin SARS did 17 years ago, as it infects some people without causing obvious symptoms like fever. This group of so-called asymptomatic carriers makes it hard to fully contain transmission as they can spread the virus undetected, a group of Chinese viral and medical researchers told reporters in Beijing at a briefing Monday.

 

With SARS, those infected became seriously ill. Once they were quarantined from others, the virus stopped spreading. In contrast, China is still finding dozens of asymptomatic cases of the coronavirus every day despite bringing its epidemic under control.

 

“This is very likely to be an epidemic that co-exists with humans for a long time, becomes seasonal and is sustained within human bodies,” said Jin Qi, director of the Institute of Pathogen Biology at China’s top medial research institute, the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tshile]

51 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Where do we draw the line for what we are willing to allow them do?  And what level does/should that power rest?

Where the “my rights!” Crowd often gets turned around is when their “right” starts to impact others. 
 

there is no line to be drawn because it’s not a cut and dry thing. And honestly drawing a line somewhere seems like setting up for future abuse - here’s the line, now see how you can fudge it all and wind up on the right side even though you shouldn’t

 

case by case where we have the ability to challenge things on their individual merits instead of drawing a line that correctly accounts for everything without abuse seems arduous and pointless. 

but the thing is if you decide the government doesn’t have this power, it’s not just individuals who are only impacting themselves. It’d be one thing if it meant only people who have no respect for experts were at risk. But that’s not what it would mean. 
 

it would give business owners, many of whom are dumb as a rock and just as anti-science or anti-expertise as others (in my experience most of them are worse because they think them starting a company somehow means they’re even smarter than most people erroneously think about themselves), the ability to open their business and demand their employees back at work. Employees that maybe think this is wrong and do respect experts and science, but have no choice because no one is hiring and this is how they pay their bills. 
 

the danger to society is large. So like how we treat any other right, there are exceptions. 
 

demanding we draw a line (not sayin you are, but plenty of the “my rights” people have that mentality as the foundation for heir argument) is a silly notion that results in an exercise that’s not productive. 
 

I think the only productive way to deal with it is looking at it case by case. As in - this specific case

 

I can’t help but wonder if the economic damage caused by allowed people who think this ain’t a big deal to run around everywhere and drag this out and ultimately result in many of them dying, would be worth it in the long run. A culling of the herd. Survival of the fittest - if you’re not smart enough to take expert advice over you own uneducated thoughts, have at it.  There’s a number of improvements we might get by significantly reducing the portion of society that is anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti-expertise. 
 

but it’s hard to think that would be the limited damage. 
 

anyways, where and how the governments constitutional ability and duty to protect the nation sits when you have something like this seems interesting. Who’s their obligation to? The group that doesn’t want to stay home or the group that recognizes the seriousness of it all and that staying home is how we fight it?

 

why do the people being forced to stay home but want to go out seem to automatically win that with people who bring this up? Why does the other side not matter?

[China]

HK scientists say new antiviral coating can protect surfaces for 90 days

 

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Researchers at a Hong Kong university say they have developed an antiviral coating which could provide 90 days of “significant” protection against bacteria and viruses such as the one causing COVID-19.

 

The coating, called MAP-1, took 10 years to develop and can be sprayed on surfaces that are frequently used by the public, such as elevator buttons and handrails, researchers at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology (HKUST) say.

 

“These places are frequently touched, and, at the same time, serve as a very effective medium for transmission of diseases,” said HKUST Adjunct Professor Joseph Kwan, one of the chief researchers in the team that developed the product.

 

The coating that forms after spraying has millions of nano-capsules containing disinfectants, which Kwan says remain effective in killing bacteria, viruses and spores even after the coating has dried.

 

Unlike common disinfecting methods such as diluted bleach and alcohol, MAP-1 is further boosted by heat-sensitive polymers that encapsulate and release disinfectants upon human contact, Kwan said.

 

It is non-toxic and safe for skin and the environment, the researchers say.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

Gov DeSantis brought charts and graphs to the Oval Office to show Pres Trump the Coronavirus situation in Florida.

 

As a Florida citizen, coud I see those charts, too?  Love to see how true or un- they are.  

[StillUnknown]

 

[visionary]

Can he do this?  

 

[spjunkies]

Wait, he would do this, but didn't order the companies to help with the protection equipment? Yeah, ok dude.

[Cooked Crack]

Maybe try to address why they were being closed in the first place instead of saying companies you won't be sued.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Smells of real panic on his end, that meat shortages would be more panic and controversy for his administration.  He'd rather gamble the lives of those working at the factory.

[Cooked Crack]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Smells of real panic on his end, that meat shortages would be more panic and controversy for his administration.  He'd rather gamble the lives of those working at the factory.

Plus they tend to be immigrants so it was a super easy choice for Trump.

[Larry]

14 minutes ago, visionary said:

Can he do this?  

 

All I know about the law is a 1-2-sentence summary somebody posted.  But it did say that the DPA gives the President the power to write a cntract, and then order a company to sign the contract.  

 

Not sure if that authority extends to individuals, but I wouldn't be shocked.  

 

Now, whether he has the political capital to do it?  Like @spjunkies said, he's refused to order the production of ventilators or masks.  But he'll use it to demand that hospitals that have bought masks, to sell them to the feds instead.  And he'll use it to make sure we don't run out of Big Macs.  

 

But then, he seems to think he's immune to political consequences for his actions.  (Been right so far.)  

 

[Corcaigh]

Can the foods be labelled that they were produced in a factory where the workers are infected?

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

Wait, he would do this, but didn't order the companies to help with the protection equipment? Yeah, ok dude.

 

I was thinking the same thing. He invoked DPA once so far for covid-19 (as far as I'm aware) and that was to order GM to build ventilators, which is obviously a good idea but from my understanding it will still take months for them to revamp their factories to begin producing them.

 

Then he never used it to order capable companies to start manufacturing PPE. I'm certainly not an expert, but to me it sounds like revamping a factory to produce masks, eye protection, and gloves would be a lot easier/quicker than ventilators.

 

And now he's suddenly using DPA to.......order meat processing plants to stay open. What the hell? He's like a bull in a china shop on PCP.

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, Corcaigh said:

Can the foods be labelled that they were produced in a factory where the workers are infected?

 

Could he order it?  Certainly.  

 

Would he?  No.  

 

(Although, maybe somebody could convince him to mandate that every product must have his name on it?  )

[88Comrade2000]

34 minutes ago, Larry said:

Gov DeSantis brought charts and graphs to the Oval Office to show Pres Trump the Coronavirus situation in Florida.

 

As a Florida citizen, coud I see those charts, too?  Love to see how true or un- they are.  

Desantis is making a ploy to replace Pence as Veep.   Trump will need Florida and with Biden having a slight lead here; Biden may decide goodbye Mike and hello Ron. 

[Corcaigh]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

(Although, maybe somebody could convince him to mandate that every product must have his name on it?  )

 

The Donald J Trump Freedom Brand. With extra Freedom.

 

And the J stands for genius.