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BBC: China pneumonia outbreak: COVID-19 Global Pandemic


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@CousinsCowgirl84 we've repeatedly said this, but one more time for the heck of it and then I'm done. We implemented limited social distancing methods late. That means a good number of the illnesses and deaths are already in the pipeline. You're willfully ignoring the incubation time and the asymptotic period in your "analysis".

 

As for the requests for data, others have in fact posted plenty of fact/data-based analysis from experts. Your refusal to do so puts you in trolling territory. j/s

 

 

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9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

which is an irrelevant number, since we are doing social distancing and self quarantine...

 

 

It's not irrelevant. Your entire argument is that the economic cost of what we're doing and what is being proposed might outweigh the healthcare impact.

 

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which is certain possible.

 

Data? Where it's it coming from?

 

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You haven't shown me that. It is possible under a worse case scenerio.

 

They announced yesterday they're mobilizing the ships.

And we've showing you hospital systems collapsing.

My wife's hospital is already full at the ICU level. Technically they can no longer accept more ICU patients. Other hospitals in our country are reporting the same thing.

And countless posts have shown these issues happening in Europe.

 

You're just denying facts at this point. irrefutable facts. You're denying them.

 

 

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I can’t prove that, of course. But you can’t prove that the virus unchecked would have a similar or larger impact.

I can show you leading research form experts that shows that.

I don't have a time machine. you're correct. I cannot prove their research is right.

 

I'm glad you're finally admitting you can't prove a god damned thing you've said, and have no data to back any of it up.

 

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in reverse, neither have you. You have only shown that the virus will be worse, unchecked, which I already agree with.

Tons of data have been provided.

 

You're either trolling or woefully ignorant. In the face of facts and data, you decline to accept them and instead proceed with hand-waving nonsense.

 

At this point, you are the definition of a science denier. If you don't like that description, then I suggest you change your ways.

 

I'm glad you can't produce an ounce of evidence or data to support your opinions on this. It's time to move on from you. You're helpless, woefully ignorant and uninformed.

Edited by tshile
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As wonderful as the "science hater" debate is, it's gone off the rails. The real debate is which would do the most damage over a long period of time: Drastic quarantine measures that save lives in the coming months but crushes the economy, or lax quarantine measures that aims to let the economy continue as best it can but lets the health care systems be crushed by the huge numbers of patients like we're seeing in Italy?

 

Which will kill more people, the virus today or a destroyed economy a year from now? I don't think anyone knows the answer because we're so much more connected and dependent on economies around the world compared to the last widespread pandemic in 1918. This is new territory, there is no precedent for saving economies. So either way, you're gambling people's lives. The "safe" bet that all the experts agree on is to save lives NOW now with drastic quarantines and worry about the economy later. There is no guarantee that there will be an economy to work with if an unchecked virus turns into a massive death toll. 

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Remember when president trumps actions in Iran were going to start ww3...

 

in three countries they have managed to contain the virus to a reasonable level of care and one country is having more of an issue but still a fraction of the amount of people who die from the flu every month are dying from it. 
 

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84
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Just a TrumpKlan troll running cover for her dear leader, promoting the idea that the now terrible economy was foisted upon dear leader by an excessively cautious liberal media/deep state.

 

Nothing more or less.  

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We really need to add a rolleyes emoji to the "Like" reactions. ...And yes, I know it was probably intentionally excluded by the mods when they set this up....because they know us.😃

Edited by The Sisko
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7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Remember when president trumps actions in Iran were going to start ww3...

 

in three countries they have managed to contain the virus to a reasonable level of care and one country is having more of an issue but still a fraction of the amount of people who die from the flu every month are dying from it. 
 

 

Just wondering....how much have you had to drink today or are you just ****posting because you're bored?

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3 minutes ago, visionary said:

I guess Fauci was getting too much attention for Trump or maybe he told the truth too much in the congressional hearings.  

I'm thinking the latter, but yeah, that was my thought too. I wondered about that when the statement that he'd requested some office time went out.

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13 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm not entertaining anyone thinking this is a joke, none of us will be laughing soon.  

 

If you are going to die you are going to die. Until then I am going to smile and laugh all the way to 6 feet under. Am i going to think and worry, yes, I have a wife and 3 kids. But at the same time I am not going to go into depression thinking about it too. You practice the things the health dept. is saying. Be safe and cautious but you still have to live your life regardless. Laugh and smile on the way too. 

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59 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

@CousinsCowgirl84 we've repeatedly said this, but one more time for the heck of it and then I'm done. We implemented limited social distancing methods late. That means a good number of the illnesses and deaths are already in the pipeline. You're willfully ignoring the incubation time and the asymptotic period in your "analysis".

 

As for the requests for data, others have in fact posted plenty of fact/data-based analysis from experts. Your refusal to do so puts you in trolling territory. j/s

 

I would make the point, that I'm not sure about illnesses.  People are talking about flattening the curve.  Flattening the curve doesn't decrease the number of people that sick.  Flattening the curve means you have the same number of sick people over a more extended period of time.  That does prevent the health care system from getting overwhelmed so that sick people can have access to good health care.

 

It slows things down so we can study best practices better (you're already seeing that some with WHO saying that ibuprofen seems to make things worse so avoid using it), potentially find other drugs that work, which should decrease deaths and other negative longer term health consequences, and MAYBE slow things down so that a vaccine can be created, which would reduce illnesses.

 

I've said before, I think we are beyond an isolate and let it die off situation with this virus now.  It is too wide spread, and that was likely going to happen no matter what we did in the US for the US (if we acted more quickly more globally as world leaders than the situation might have been different).  At this point in time, I think, you've pretty much got to bake in that somehow >70% of Americans have to become immune to this thing, and until there is a vaccine, the only way that happens is by getting it.

 

(And hopefully getting it means we've built a good resistance to it and that it doesn't mutate during that process.)

Edited by PeterMP
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42 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

in three countries they have managed to contain the virus to a reasonable level of care and one country is having more of an issue but still a fraction of the amount of people who die from the flu every month are dying from it. 
 

 

Okay, but those 3 countries are still practicing pretty drastic measures to "contain" it.

 

https://time.com/5804136/china-coronavirus-quarantine-new-normal/


"But much like what’s currently unfolding in the U.S., regulations for each Chinese city differ, and the lack of clarity regarding containment protocols has a chilling effect on business. Currently, even those traveling from Shanghai to the neighboring city of Suzhou for a meeting are technically required to submit to 14 days quarantine, perhaps even at a government facility, meaning few take the risk of venturing beyond the city limits. Those who have stayed at home must also self-quarantine if a roommate or family member returns from overseas or another province."

 

Those restriction are still in place.

 

I've pointed out before.  They aren't playing baseball in South Korea and aren't talking about starting until April, and even then I suspect you see they're going to start with restrictions on crowd sizes.

 

Yes, this doesn't kill many people if you take drastic actions and leave them in place for months.

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2 minutes ago, tshile said:

Trump is a disaster

 

he just makes stuff up and rambles. 
 

this is not how you deal with a crisis. 

 

He is saying things to make the stock market feel better about the future. 

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4 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

If you are going to die you are going to die. Until then I am going to smile and laugh all the way to 6 feet under. Am i going to think and worry, yes, I have a wife and 3 kids. But at the same time I am not going to go into depression thinking about it too. You practice the things the health dept. is saying. Be safe and cautious but you still have to live your life regardless. Laugh and smile on the way too. 

 

That's different then what I responded to.

 

The only way I can see anyone not taking this seriously after reading 180+ pages of this is because it hasn't directly impacted them in a way they have no choice.  

 

You can't reach or convince those folks, the virus will have to do it.

31 minutes ago, visionary said:

I guess Fauci was getting too much attention for Trump or maybe he told the truth too much in the congressional hearings.  

 

"Low level aide, never knew him" coming to a theater near you...

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6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's different then what I responded to.

 

The only way I can see anyone not taking this seriously after reading 180+ pages of this is because it hasn't directly impacted them in a way they have no choice.  

 

You can't reach or convince those folks, the virus will have to do it.

 

I thought your response was to the people raising their hand with two fingers. If not... then that's cool and my bad. 

 

I think you are wrong that people are not taking this seriously on ES. Maybe handfuls are not and that would be natural selection to those who are not. But for the most part I think everyone is taking this seriously. 

 

 

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