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Everyone says the RIvera hire is "more of the same" I don't agree.. and here's why


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7 minutes ago, dyst said:

I am about as negative as one can get but, no this does not feel more of the same and MOST people don't think it is more of the same.

 

The big difference for me is no Vinny or Bruce. That alone is a sea change.

 

Every coach brought their own brand and sold new beginnings.  I've liked most of the coaching hires at the time.  I like this one, too.

 

The wildcard is Dan.  Dan has been the common denominator as to the losing and the sample size is huge.  So my feelings about Dan haven't changed.  But i do like that the emperor doesn't have Vadar anymore.   Hopefully Rivera's integrity and style rubs off on Dan in a good way.  Will see.

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36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The big difference for me is no Vinny or Bruce. That alone is a sea change.

 

Every coach brought their own brand and sold new beginnings.  I've liked most of the coaching hires at the time.  I like this one, too.

 

The wildcard is Dan.  Dan has been the common denominator as to the losing and the sample size is huge.  So my feelings about Dan haven't changed.  But i do like that the emperor doesn't have Vadar anymore.   Hopefully Rivera's integrity and style rubs off on Dan in a good way.  Will see.

 

precisely. for 20 years we had a fool and vindictive, unskilled wanna be protecting their position by saying whatever, and disparaging whomever the situation required. 

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13 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Wow, you must be really old...

I can remember my dad coming home from a business trip telling me he sat next to the guy on the plane that was to be the next Head Coach.   Joe Gibbs.   :)  

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2 hours ago, dyst said:

I am about as negative as one can get but, no this does not feel more of the same and MOST people don't think it is more of the same.

I can name 2 who are MUCH more negative then you....but that would be calling someone out and that's against the rules...

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The fact of the matter is, Dan is who Dan is.  There is no changing at this point in the game.  If he was to evolve, he would have evolved by now.  He was practically forced into a lot of these moves.  The hope is in that these moves will breed enough positive results, quickly enough, that he'll learn from it - because we're stuck with this guy for a long, long time.

 

 

I think this is true and I'm definitely not a Dan supporter but lets not act like Dan always gets his way. We have heard stories of him wanting Sanchez and Santana Moss in the drafts and not getting them. We heard about the Ocho Cinco trade that never happened. We heard later (I think from Dan or Vinny) about his reluctance to trade first rounders because they had been successful there in his tenure. 

 

That's not to say that he never gets what he wants but I think it shows that he is willing to offer an opinion and be rejected. I think somebody said that it was big boys in the room telling Dan to go play somewhere at these instances. Haskins is the ultimate recency example, but I'm not going to act like the RG3 or McNabb trades were all on Dan. From what I understand they were joint things between Mike and Bruce with Dan just giving them permission to do what they needed to do to get the guys they wanted. 

 

His relationships with players though is what ultimately can hurt this whole thing. 

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The question for me is, do you trust RR?  He's been around a long time and has seen successful organizations.  Do you think he's not man enough to stand up to Dan when needed?  He doesn't need us, we need him.  All he has to do is threaten to leave and Dan will capitulate.  In some ways, Gibbs was too nice to Dan because he'd never throw down the hammer and threaten to walk out on him (and by proxy on his beloved Skins).  I think if Dan started trying to yank RR's chains, he'd tell him "it's my way or the highway".  I could be wrong, but that's my hope going forward.

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4 minutes ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

Do you think he's not man enough to stand up to Dan when needed? 

Hopefully the front office has demonstrated that they don't need to. I don't doubt that there will be the occasion where Snyder will butt in with an opinion, but I'd hope that Kyle and Doug and Eric (if he stays) can come in and say "yeah thats a good option but we have this guy rated higher and its a better value" or heck who knows, maybe Dan has some good ideas (like Haskins). 

 

I think the Haskins decision is ultimately two decisions (if not more). There are many reports that our scouts (probably Kyle) had Haskins as a second rounder. And Dan wanted him in the first. There were rumors that the Giants wanted him at 6 and that we would trade up to before 6 to steal him from the Giants. So I think part of this was quieting Dan to say he's DEFINITELY not worth trading up for. Then when he dropped they had to make a decision based on where they had him, where they had other guys like Lock and Grier. If we didn't get Haskins we were probably going Burns or Sweat, but were we guaranteed to get Lock or Grier? We probably had a second round grade on Lock, but did we have Lock above Haskins or Grier above Haskins? And how sure were we that we could address the QB position in the offseason adequately if we had passed on Haskins. 

 

So the optimistic fan in me thinks they all say down like adults (Dan not included because he was on his boat) and went through these options and decided as a team to draft him. And while the reports talk about the grade of Haskins, but we've seen other disagreements on players like Quinn from the year before. Its not as important because it wasn't a first rounder, but the question of spending a 4th on a guy we got in the 7th is a disagreement. 

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4 hours ago, crabbypatty said:

Did you not read the Rivera thread? Tons of posters here have said that, also because there was no gm In place and Danny picked the coach it's the same old same old. 

 

I'm of the opinion that nothing will ultimately change until Snyder dies and leaves the team to his heirs.

 

For years, I assume he would outlive me. But he looked a little rough yesterday.

 

Regardless, you wrote a bad post. It's bad.

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I would like to know if there is verbiage in Ron's contract that pertains to decision making and control.  I remember someone on one of the radio shows saying they expected there to be something in his contract that gives him recourse in case Dan goes nuts.

 

If there is that pretty much alleviates any possible meddling by Dan.  Whats the terms and details of his contract, its very hush hush for some reason.

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3 hours ago, stevenaa said:

I can remember my dad coming home from a business trip telling me he sat next to the guy on the plane that was to be the next Head Coach.   Joe Gibbs.   :)  

 

19 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I would like to know if there is verbiage in Ron's contract that pertains to decision making and control.  I remember someone on one of the radio shows saying they expected there to be something in his contract that gives him recourse in case Dan goes nuts.

 

If there is that pretty much alleviates any possible meddling by Dan.  Whats the terms and details of his contract, its very hush hush for some reason.

I can remember coming down to eat breakfast and my dad showed me the newspaper and he said that mabe your football team can finally win a game when thay hired Otto Graham crackers. He also would show me the paper when the Redskins hired McPeak and some others I never heard of. My dad would also have the newspaper ready when all the big Yanks would sign contracts like Yogi at 60k a year I think. Mickey at 100k. He called me when we hired Lombardi and I did not believe him. 

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While I agree with the first couple of paragraphs, I have to heavily disagree with the end where we dont need a GM.

 

Just because the Patriots did it with the once in NFL history wonder of Bellichik, doesnt mean we can.  Hes the exception to the rule, and the only other ones quoted were the Eagles(GM, who hired their coach), and the Seahawks(who did hire Schneider a week later).  It can be successful with the exact right man in charge, but it so rarely is, because it has to be exact right man.  Its mostly we dont trust Snyder to find that person considering how poor of a judge of character/talent/ability he has been for 20 years.

 

I do think that Snyder can eventually luck out and get the right person, if hes at least smart enough to shut up and not meddle.  Anyone can.  In fact a great deal of success is knowing when to move away from bad quickly, and to stick with what has success.  But that requires humility.

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3 hours ago, Peregrine said:

While I agree with the first couple of paragraphs, I have to heavily disagree with the end where we dont need a GM.

 

Just because the Patriots did it with the once in NFL history wonder of Bellichik, doesnt mean we can.  Hes the exception to the rule, and the only other ones quoted were the Eagles(GM, who hired their coach), and the Seahawks(who did hire Schneider a week later).  It can be successful with the exact right man in charge, but it so rarely is, because it has to be exact right man.  Its mostly we dont trust Snyder to find that person considering how poor of a judge of character/talent/ability he has been for 20 years.

 

I do think that Snyder can eventually luck out and get the right person, if hes at least smart enough to shut up and not meddle.  Anyone can.  In fact a great deal of success is knowing when to move away from bad quickly, and to stick with what has success.  But that requires humility.

 

But it looks like a chicken vs egg thing. I guess it all depends on IF the GM is qualified and IF he is on the same page as the HC in this instance. It don't seem very different to me if you had a GM in place, and he hired a coach that was not compatible/qualified.. The GM would ideally hire a HC that shared the same vision and was qualified.. in either way you have two guys on the same page working toward the same purpose.

 

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I don't feel like this is more of the same either. Shannahan had a great run game, but he had an ego and a history of poor personnel choices on defense. Poor choices when it came to both coaches and players on that side of the ball. Ron, has a history of success with both sides of the ball and enough of a lack of ego and insecurity to have great people around him. He makes it a point to have former head coaches on his roster and actively seeks a great support structure.

 

Ron's performance in Carolina started sliding when he lost his coaches to their success and they got promoted to other teams and of course when Cam's injuries started piling up. He had too much on his plate this season, while trying to both coach the team and call the plays on defense, which we can already see he's not going to do this coming season. Jack Del Rio is not just our new defensive coordinator, he will also be calling the defensive plays.

Ron, is the closest in character and temperament to Joe Gibbs we've had as a coach and Joe had a strong influence on bringing both Ron and Dan together. This pairing and influence is the closest example of reigning Dan in and channeling his impulses and needs to be included in the most non-destructive way available since Gibbs was here himself.

 

If Ron continues his string of good hires I'm very optimistic of his chances, especially when it comes to the Front Office. This will be the first coach we've ever had under Dan that does not include the influence of either Vinny Ceratto or Bruce Allen. That is a huuuuge deciding factor in the success of this team. This is also the first time we've had this good of a talent evaluator on the college side in Kyle Smith.

 

We as of right now do not have any clearly stupid people in positions of power other than Dan and that is the lowest amount we've ever had here in awhile. We are nearly disease free and if we can keep it that way, with Dan in quarantine we've got a shot at sustained success. So right now I'm happy and enjoying the ride. I'll start to worry if we start ending up with tampa connection type hires that show no evidence of previous success or obvious potential.

 



 

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I got a strange urge today and did something I've never done before and went to another teams message board to see how the Panthers fans feel about RR being fired and also hired by the Redskins. Wow.

 

There is alot of hatred over there for him and the issues they have we seem to be all to familiar with ourselves. 

 

- instead of club Jay they have club     Ron.

- Halftime adjustments did not exist under RR.

- They are sick and tired of 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 seasons.

- Loyalty to veterans even tho younger players that may be better sat on the bench.

- Apparently RR doesnt believe in working after 5pm which they feel lead to the team not being prepared 

- Also think that two generational talents have been wasted by RR.

 

They even have a thread devoted to post from ES.

 

Kind of wish I didnt visit the site. 

 

 

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