The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[SkinsGuy]

22 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Offensive linemen never really use to miss games, am I right? Is that just me? Is it normal for oline to be injured now and miss a few games a season? 

 

They missed games back then, sure.

 

One of my favorite things to do during Gibbs glory days was to get the Sunday morning local paper (Richmond Times Dispatch). The sports section was full of Redskins' articles on gameday.

 

One article they always had was the injury report.

 

I can remember reading a good deal of times about how Coach Bugel (and later Hannifan) would "shuffle the line". Move players around to compensate for injuries here and there.

 

Nobody seemed to miss a lot of time. A game or two. But injuries did happen. More often than we like to remember, as we kinda want to remember the Hogs as, not only dominant, but also invincible.

 

Having said that, I do believe players are softer and more pampered today.

 

No more tough two-a-days. Just light practices with light hitting.

[carex]

37 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

They missed games back then, sure.

 

One of my favorite things to do during Gibbs glory days was to get the Sunday morning local paper (Richmond Times Dispatch). The sports section was full of Redskins' articles on gameday.

 

One article they always had was the injury report.

 

I can remember reading a good deal of times about how Coach Bugel (and later Hannifan) would "shuffle the line". Move players around to compensate for injuries here and there.

 

Nobody seemed to miss a lot of time. A game or two. But injuries did happen. More often than we like to remember, as we kinda want to remember the Hogs as, not only dominant, but also invincible.

 

Having said that, I do believe players are softer and more pampered today.

 

No more tough two-a-days. Just light practices with light hitting.

 

thinking about some old NFL books I had the original Hogs shuffled enough that besides Jacoby, Grimm, Bostic, May and Starke Ken Huff was considered a Hog.  He was a guard for when May shifted out to tackle, and Raleigh Mckenzie's abilty to play four positions wouldn'y have been  a big deal

[Conn]

2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

All part of how chicken **** soft America has gotten(see connskins)..yes players especially o linemen would play with broken arms fingers all kinds of broken parts but would still play.

 

They still do. The simple fact is today's players are pushing the human body to the limit in a way players in the 80's weren't capable of due to science/technology, it not being a full-time gig and not paying millions, etc. Guys are bigger and faster on similar frames. OL now can be like 75-80 lbs. heavier than in those days if not more. The human body can only handle so much weight and strain, and at the same time they're faster and quicker than ever! Ligaments and tendons just can't hold up the same way amidst the freakishly fast/strong crashes that happen now. Yes, even with the newer safety rules in place.

 

Also I know you're referring back to my post in response to you about rivalries etc. not being the same anymore...but in that post I wasn't agreeing with you that it's because today's players are soft. I was explaining the real reason why the rivalries don't exist in the same way anymore and disagreeing with your point about the players being soft. That's just something fans tell themselves about the glory days, it's not remotely true. Due to better science and financial incentive guys regularly rehab injuries nowadays that would have just ended careers instantly in 83.

 

And they're sustaining these injuries more commonly and at higher rates because they're all such larger, better athletes. There's no doubt that players today endure more pain and spend more time on their bodies, both in shaping them and in injury/strain recovery. It's beyond a full time job just to stay at the unsatisfactory levels of health most can achieve nowadays, even with all the advanced tech and knowledge at their disposal.

 

The modern NFL is a freakish meat grinder that very few players from the 80's could survive if just plopped into the middle of a game today, as-is.

[crabbypatty]

2 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

They missed games back then, sure.

 

One of my favorite things to do during Gibbs glory days was to get the Sunday morning local paper (Richmond Times Dispatch). The sports section was full of Redskins' articles on gameday.

 

One article they always had was the injury report.

 

I can remember reading a good deal of times about how Coach Bugel (and later Hannifan) would "shuffle the line". Move players around to compensate for injuries here and there.

 

Nobody seemed to miss a lot of time. A game or two. But injuries did happen. More often than we like to remember, as we kinda want to remember the Hogs as, not only dominant, but also invincible.

 

Having said that, I do believe players are softer and more pampered today.

 

No more tough two-a-days. Just light practices with light hitting.

money is a huge factor too. You can't risk having your $15 million LT suffer a freak injury and be out for the season.. Or your star RB taking a weird cut and shredding his knee.

Hell look at Foster. First non contact practice and he shreds his knee. Players are softer attitude wise, yes. But I can see not wanting to risk highly paid guys as well. It's a double edged sword to be sure.

[Burgold]

5 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

, it not being a full-time gig and not paying millions, etc.

I think you're confusing the 80's with the 50's or 60's.

 

Players may not have been making tens and hundreds of millions of dollars, but they were still making hundreds of thousands and millions. It was without question a full time job during the glory years.

 

 In 1980, the average player's salary was $78,657. By the last Redskins Superbowl it had grown considerably. The average player earned $422,149 in 1991, an all-time high, said the NFL Players Association's annual salary survey, reported yesterday by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. I still remember when we signed away Wilbur Marshall from the Bears, gave up the draft picks and he was called the "six million dollar man" because of the contract we gave him.

 

Wilber Marshall became a rich Washington Redskin on Friday when Michael McCaskey announced the Bears would not match the five-year, $6 million contract that will make the free-agent linebacker the highest-paid defensive player in the National Football League.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1988-03-19-8803020022-story.html

[Est.1974]

So Warford looking for a deal that would pay him roughly 7mil p/y. We simply must be in on that. And Logan Ryan at 9.5mil. 
 

Those are very tempting in my opinion.

[SkinsGuy]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Players may not have been making tens and hundreds of millions of dollars, but they were still making hundreds of thousands and millions. It was without question a full time job during the glory years.

 

I don't know, man.

 

Didn't one of the Hogs (maybe Jacoby) sell cars in the 80s because he needed a job in the offseason to make ends meet?

 

I remember Joe Thiesmann telling the group of players around him in Super Bowl 17 that they would get a $70,000 bonus if they won. 

 

I don't think they would've got all excited about that if they were already making big money.

 

Go to the 2:00 mark:

 

 

[carex]

17 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

I don't know, man.

 

Didn't one of the Hogs (maybe Jacoby) sell cars in the 80s because he needed a job in the offseason to make ends meet?

 

I remember Joe Thiesmann telling the group of players around him in Super Bowl 17 that they would get a $70,000 bonus if they won. 

 

I don't think they would've got all excited about that if they were already making big money.

 

Go to the 2:00 mark:

 

 

 

I think football in the 80s was a job where you were pretty rich while you played, but not set for life.  So a lot of guys went out and got side hustles, if you will, while their fame was at it's max.  Like I don't think Jacoby sold cars, I think he opened dealerships

[Burgold]

Right. In the 80's the stars were pretty much set for life if they were smart (remember 200K in 1980 was worth a lot more than it is today) but for the average or fringe player it was a upper middle class/upper class job that they could burn through and the need for a second career afterwards was definitely a thing.

 

Joe Jacoby bought and ran a car dealership. So, saying he sold cars while technically true didn't speak to the kind of money you need to do that. He was fine.

[bowhunter]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

So Warford looking for a deal that would pay him roughly 7mil p/y. We simply must be in on that. And Logan Ryan at 9.5mil. 
 

Those are very tempting in my opinion.

Is he seeking (only) $7mill? I thought that was his salary for this upcoming year at NO. I would think his agent would talk him out of accepting a deal at that number now.

[Koolblue13]

Make no mistake. The difference between management and player in pay, profit and lifespan is still wildly different and that is never going to change. Young athletes trading the back end of their lives and health, for artificial millions up front is real.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

So Warford looking for a deal that would pay him roughly 7mil p/y. We simply must be in on that. And Logan Ryan at 9.5mil. 
 

Those are very tempting in my opinion.

 

Yep I'd do it in 2 seconds

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, bowhunter said:

Is he seeking (only) $7mill? I thought that was his salary for this upcoming year at NO. I would think his agent would talk him out of accepting a deal at that number now.

yeah there’s a Rapoport segment on the NFL site about it. I’m not good at posting links. I see SIP had added something further down.
 

Seems like he’s looking at 7m p/y. Ereck Flowrers got 10m p/y !!!

 

Seems odd but get him in 

[Burgold]

Yeah, for 7m and his pedigree, I'd be on the phone now. Since there's no Redskins One right now, I'd even use Redskins Zoom!

 

We have the cap space and this guy could be a good long term solution to a question mark. Martin did pretty well as a rookie, but I don't know if he's the guy. Scherrf is on a franchise tag and I don't know if he sticks. The question is, why is a Pro Bowl guard looking for "okay" money. Is he looking for 7 m because he figures everyone's spent their cap this year and he wants a one year deal before cashing in? If so, that's another plus in my book.

 

We're going against some nasty D lines and defenses. Best way to let Haskins grow is to make sure he has the best protection we can get him.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

According to the SI article I read, Warford's pass protection really slipped down the stretch. He is an elite run-blocker, but also doesn't have the athleticism to get outside on pulls for screens that the Saints require in their offense. Given we have similar requirements in our new offense, I would be surprised if we kicked the tires on him. I think Wes Martin and Wes Schweitzer are just fine covering the LG spot. Sure, Warford would be cheap and is just 28, but he has played RG and we have that set with Scherff, at least this year.

[markmills67]

Looking like Logan Ryan to the Jets on 1 year deal at 9.5m. Would have like him as a Redskin for that price. 

 

HTTR 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

Looking like Logan Ryan to the Jets on 1 year deal at 9.5m. Would have like him as a Redskin for that price. 

 

HTTR 

that’s a very solid move. I’d read he had several multi year offers on the table, likely at less money. Or he’s just happy to take the one year rental approach. Jets improved a fair bit at CB.

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

According to the SI article I read, Warford's pass protection really slipped down the stretch. He is an elite run-blocker, but also doesn't have the athleticism to get outside on pulls for screens that the Saints require in their offense. Given we have similar requirements in our new offense, I would be surprised if we kicked the tires on him. I think Wes Martin and Wes Schweitzer are just fine covering the LG spot. Sure, Warford would be cheap and is just 28, but he has played RG and we have that set with Scherff, at least this year.

 

Idk man.  I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Warford protecting Dwayne than the other two you mentioned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dark Acre]

Joe Jacoby and Mark May sold big screen TVs for Theater Vision.  https://tinyurl.com/yalrk3mp

During the 80's, the average player did not have to work an offseason job.  Sure, they made endorsements, but $78,000 avg salary in 1980 was huge.  Keep in mind, a fully-loaded Intellivision was only $250.  Pair that with a Theatervision and a case of Schmidts ($1.50/6-pack, IIRC from senior year), how much more $$$ did you need?  By the way, question for someone who kept his Topps -- when was the last year that the cards stated the players' offseason jobs on the back?  I know they did that through the 70's but I stopped collecting by 1980.  So, like, it would say "Brad [Dusek, just to pick a Skin] paints houses in the offseason" or "Don sells coke".  (Actually, there was such a Don - Reese - though his card didn't say that.)  I just looked Brad Dusek up.  He will always have a soft spot in my heart since he was the guy who recovered a fumble and returned it for the winning TD against the Patriots in 1978, and NO ONE watched it on TV because the game was preempted for the Pope's visit so it was only on radio.  Somebody goofed on that itinerary.  Anyway, Dusek had 16 recoveries in his 8-year career and 3 returned for TDs, retiring in 1981.  (Ooops)  He's still alive at almost 70, but sadly, he's got ALS.  Man, I'm having serious nostalgia and I'm stone-cold sober.

[HTTRDynasty]

Stars seem to be aligning for the Eagles to get him back for peanuts.

 

NFL.com's Mike Garafolo reports free agent LT Jason Peters remains in communication with the Eagles. 

Garafolo reports via colleague James Palmer that the Browns, Jets and Broncos also maintain some interest in the 38-year-old. Per Garafolo, Peters would like to play into his 40s. In Philadelphia, Peters would be a hedge against second-year pro Andre Dillard if the Eagles decided to bring him back.

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Stars seem to be aligning for the Eagles to get him back for peanuts.

 

NFL.com's Mike Garafolo reports free agent LT Jason Peters remains in communication with the Eagles. 

Garafolo reports via colleague James Palmer that the Browns, Jets and Broncos also maintain some interest in the 38-year-old. Per Garafolo, Peters would like to play into his 40s. In Philadelphia, Peters would be a hedge against second-year pro Andre Dillard if the Eagles decided to bring him back.

I did see that reported that the he was still in constant dialogue with the Eagles.

 

Peters on a short term deal would be great IMO. If we don’t bring a vet in, I can only image we have a plan in place to draft an OT on day 1 or 2 next year.

[PartyPosse]

Ryan at 9.5 would have just been an opportunity to spend future cap for a potential 3rd round comp. Him coming here doesn't make the team all that much better, especially not in the long run. If he had a decent season then some team gives him a big deal and we get the comp, but lose the 9.5 we would have rolled into next year. If he plays meh or doesn't even start, you're looking at a 5th or 6th round pick. Not worth the gamble IMO.

7 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I did see that reported that the he was still in constant dialogue with the Eagles.

 

Peters on a short term deal would be great IMO. If we don’t bring a vet in, I can only image we have a plan in place to draft an OT on day 1 or 2 next year.

Frankly, I don't know why he would even want to come here. We're not close to winning, he knows he's a one year at most. He'll have much more luck with better teams in TC.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Idk man.  I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Warford protecting Dwayne than the other two you mentioned.

 

 

Pretty weak analysis on your part.  Schweitzer's beard is way more dominant than Warfords...it's science bro

[owa]

I'm fine with us skipping on the remaining free agents.  I think Rivera mostly wants to ride out this year to evaluate the roster and if you're available at this point, it is probably money related anyway.  I'd rather wait until next season, after he has had a year to evaluate the roster, to see how we approach free agents, our own roster, etc.  Some of his comments seem to suggest we're closer than he expected so maybe he sees value in our current roster?  Idk, but I'm just hoping it is part of his evaluation process.  Not like we were going anywhere this season anyway and some of the posts seem to suggest we should be biting on some of these guys when I don't feel we are there yet.  Let's see what we've got first and then go down that route.  Lots of unknowns so guess we will see...

[JamesMadisonSkins]

At this point with it pretty clear that Ron is going to be doing a full-on roster analysis this year ... and isn't chasing "cheap wins" I just don't see us adding any big FAs down the stretch unless someone comes free that would undoubtedly make us better in the long-run. Not sure who or if any of those players exist at this point.

 

I would rather carry our cap into 2021 and have legit flexibility to do this the right way. I am not even saying blow the bank in 2021 on overpriced FAs. But at the very least, allow yourself to re-sign some of your high-end talent that is coming free in the next 1-2 off-seasons, while simultaneously adding even more talent via the draft.

 

Our approach as of late has been to let our own guys walk in FA. I would like to avoid that trend going forward, especially since I think we drafted particularly well over the last 3-4 drafts.

 

Allen, Scherff, Foster (if he performs), Moreau (if he performs) + extensions for Payne. Also, if Dwayne balls out the next two years, it would be great to sign him to a big extension without it crippling the team, because we spent our $$ wisely in our rebuild years and kicked that money into future years where our own talent was coming available.

 

I think we can add 2-3 really big FAs next off-season and still re-sign/extend our own guys and have some juicy $$ to roll into 2022, when we can do the same thing again. Eventually you will run out of money, but I would much rather pay the guys in 2021 and 2022 than spend $10m on Logan Ryan for a year chasing cheap wins. Lot of folks on here advocating for Peters + Ryan for a combined (roughly) $18m this season. To me that is chasing cheap wins. And that is $18 million that could be added to the 2021 cap and go toward bringing in a couple big FAs once the roster is properly assessed.