The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[YourWish is MyCommanders]

30 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

And one less crybaby to lock down a WR.

 

Cheers to that?

Yes sir! He wasn’t going to stay healthy anyway. 

[actorguy1]

Wondering if the Trent trade doesn't go down until draft night. Whatever team doesn't get in on the top 4 tackles will be pretty desperate.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, actorguy1 said:

Wondering if the Trent trade doesn't go down until draft night. Whatever team doesn't get in on the top 4 tackles will be pretty desperate.

I think there’s 5-7 who could be day 1 starters. 
 

Niang, Wilson, Jones are all more than capable. 
 

I think Becton is the least pro ready of the top 7, and he might wind up being successful just because he’s an absolute man beast. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[carex]

on the CB front we also have Greg Stroman who was decent his rookie year

[Poindexter]

2 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

We all wanted a new GM, a new coaching staff, a new culture, new leadership and new direction...

 

WE NOW HAVE IT and fans are still complaining that we aren't overpaying for just above average free agents. That we only got a 5th rounder for a oft-injured DB who didnt want to be here and has made it known publicly... Smdh... C'mon guys. Can we have a little perspective and patience?

Not overly upset about Dunbar because I thought we would only get a 4th....disappointed we gave up a 5th for Colt McCoy 2.0 but I guess it is a bargain considering at the very least he will be a 10 year back up for us.

 

I'm going to be patient but we either need draft picks or free agents.  

 

But back to the plan of Kyle Smith...he stated that we want depth at every position so we can draft the BPA.  The draft will be fun especially if we can get a few picks for Trent.  I trust our draft plan and I like what we are doing in FA.  But if we let Trent out of here for a 4th then I'm going to be very disappointed.

[Burgold]

I think many of you are really overvaluing Dunbar.  Who was he to the rest of the NFL? Was he a probowler? Was he a great corner? Did he have multiple years of sustained success? Did he have the knack for spotting the ball and making game changing plays?

 

I'd argue none of the above. He's a good corner when healthy. He isn't healthy as often as you want him to be. He's a B who is a great story as an undrafted free agent made good. He also poisoned the well and proved he was going to continue to be the guy in the office that never stopped complaining. I've had the desk next to that person before and it sucks. It hits everyone and lowers productivity even though you try to tune him out.

 

Right now, Dunbar is cheap, but that was the source of his discontent. He didn't want to be cheap. He wanted a HUGE raise one I'd argue he didn't deserve yet because he hadn't been excellent long enough and because we don't know if he'd be a great or even a good corner in Del Rio's system.

 

Still, he wanted a significant raise because PFF said he was great. Does the NFL think he was great? Do they think he's even very good? I remember last year the entire board was in a panic about the idea of Dunbar starting opposite Norman and it wasn't because of Norman. No one believed in Dunbar. I think he performed well, but what the hell does that mean with a D that was as awful as last year's was? The defense was historically awful, confused, lost, and every corner seemed to be auditioning to be a drum by the way they liked getting beat. Equally important, this was the second year in a row he missed a ton of games. Who cares if he's good if he's not on the field?

 

So, should a discontent who ran not once, not twice, not even three times to Twitter to complain about how miserable he was and how desperately he wanted out be traded for a premium? Should he be kept?

 

The clear answer to both is "no."

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, KDawg said:

I think there’s 5-7 who could be day 1 starters. 
 

Niang, Wilson, Jones are all more than capable. 
 

I think Becton is the least pro ready of the top 7, and he might wind up being successful just because he’s an absolute man beast. 

 

Yeah unfortunately the draft is stacked for LTs.  I think:  Niang, Cleveland, Wilson are bonafide good starters, too.  Some say Austin Jackson but I am not as enamored.

 

I'd think the Browns are more than confident they can get a good LT in this draft.  I'd presume the value is they can draft another position and leave LT alone.   

[NYSkins21]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Agree. Though I think Carolina fleeced is. We got the return we should have expected for Dunbar. Or close to it.

I like the deal. Sure, maybe we could have waited for them to drop Allen. But how do we know there wasn't another team interested in him? He did show some potential last year. Giving up a 5th to secure a low priced backup, with knowledge of the coaches and system. I want as much knowledge as we can get in that QB room with Haskins to aid in his development. Zampese, Smith, Allen, Turner and Rivera sounds pretty good to me!

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah unfortunately the draft is stacked for LTs.  I think:  Niang, Cleveland, Wilson are bonafide good starters, too.  Some say Austin Jackson but I am not as enamored.

 

I'd think the Browns are more than confident they can get a good LT in this draft.  I'd presume the value is they can draft another position and leave LT alone.   

I don’t like Cleveland AS much, but if I think the top 5-7 are day one starters, I think Cleveland and Jackson are in the group if possible day one starters. And then you got guys like Heck and Peart who could develop. As well as a few others. 
 

OT isn’t a position anyone wants to trade for a big money guy at right now. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

 

I don't think this is correct as far as TW's contract is concerned.  I don't think he is signed through 2021, is he?  If he is, we need to be asking for a 1st, not a 2nd.

 

No I think its just 2020.  The interesting component for me of that article is spotrac valuing Trent at 15 million a year.   Trent is supposedly asking for 20 million plus a year and I'd presume that's a big hangup to making a deal.  I'd gather if Trent came off his demands a deal would happen fast. 

[KDawg]

Just now, NYSkins21 said:

I like the deal. Sure, maybe we could have waited for them to drop Allen. But how do we know there wasn't another team interested in him? He did show some potential last year. Giving up a 5th to secure a low priced backup, with knowledge of the coaches and system. I want as much knowledge as we can get in that QB room with Haskins to aid in his development. Zampese, Smith, Allen, Turner and Rivera sounds pretty good to me!

I don’t think Allen was brought in to just help develop Haskins. Which... fine. But if there’s competition, let someone else get fleeced for him. I just don’t like the trade. I’m fine with Allen, to be clear. Don’t love him, but I like his familiarity and his confidence. 
 

I just think a 5 is steep. Personal opinion.

[Burgold]

Quote

This reminds me of an experience form my own life.

 

Years ago, when my first play was being produced in New York I got to sit in on the auditions. I was a low level playwright and didn't have much pull, but it was a thrill to be there. I remember a number of auditions happening and taking some notes while trying to imagine the actors fulfilling the roles  I had written when in comes this one actor. He delivers his monologue and for the first time I decide to speak. When he leaves, I turn to the director and say,

 

"So, what about that one? He's pretty good?"

 

The director looked at me and said words I have applied in many places. He said,

 

"You're right. He is good, but we're not hiring him."

 

"Why?" I asked.

 

"He's only a B, but he's a diva and a pain in the ass. I have to live with this actor for six months. If he was an A you put up with it. For an A+ you put up with almost anything, but for a B it's not worth it."

 

Right now, Dunbar (on social media) is acting like a B that is a pain in the ass. He's good, but he's not good enough for all the fussing and headaches. And the risk that all the fussing goes away if he gets a new contract is sketchy, too. Complainers find something to complain about. There's a good chance he'll be happy for a week and then grouse about something else.

 

Edit: Trent's a bit different because On-field Trent has been an A and sometimes an A+. Dunbar is not on Trent Williams' level. They're players of different stature.

Edited yesterday at 10:13 AM by Burgold

I posted the above in the Dunbar thread yesterday. I really think this was what today's trade was all about.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

It doesn't matter if we couldn't get any more for Dunbar than a 5th. He was worth more to this team, as a player, than a 5th. 

 

We can all try to look at this off season through burgandy and gold colored glasses, but my homerism only goes so far. In light of the trades today, this off season has been a very bad one for the Skins. We went 3-13 and we are a weaker roster today than the one that earned the second pick in the draft. 

 

We had better kill the draft. And the draft next year. And FA next year. And Haskins had better develop. Or the end of the losing isn't in sight. 

[crabbypatty]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think Allen was brought in to just help develop Haskins. Which... fine. But if there’s competition, let someone else get fleeced for him. I just don’t like the trade. I’m fine with Allen, to be clear. Don’t love him, but I like his familiarity and his confidence. 
 

I just think a 5 is steep. Personal opinion.

A 5 is steep for a guy ranked 32 of 32. That's pretty bad.

Overall the new FO gets a D- from me. Nothing they have done screams "we want to win"

I understand not going after every Bruce Smith and Deion out there, But ffs, there are many mid tier FA's that can help this team improve right now.

Why we have refused to go after any save Fuller is a mystery to me. We have no starting LT, presumably have a replacement at LG with Martin, but zero depth of note on the OL, except for a $3 million dollar guard.

That ain't gonna fly when the season starts.

Having only 3 corners worth much playing time ain't gonna fly either.

 

I just don't understand not wanting to upgrade the team at necessary positions. You don't have to sign guys to Josh Norman sized contracts, but there are affordable Fuller type deals out there for guys who are starters in this league, not fringe roster bubble guys.

 

Every move so far this offseason has been baffling to me. Hopefully they don't play the draft as badly as they've done in FA.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'd take almost every player you mention over a backup QB.   You talk up the crapshoot of the draft as if the alternative isn't a crap shoot.    

I couldn't disagree more.  The backup QB is one of the absolute most important positions on the team.  QB IS the most important position on the field, and we've learned you need good ones, and a lot of them. Haskins has shown that he gets dinged up.  We need somebody who can play behind him.  

 

We need somebody who will fit into the culture and the locker room.  And Haskins can watch in an offense he doesn't know.

 

To me, this was an absolute area of need, and a 5th round pick is nowhere near too high a price to pay.  Now, if you go up, 3rd/4th, yeah, those are guys you want on the field in their rookie years who you expect to develop.  3rd rounders you want to develop into starters, and 4th rounders are kidnof the "tweeners."  You have more misses than hits in teh 4th round, but your chances of finding a good player are pretty high.  

 

I understand the 'Skins 5th rounder was a high pick, but it's what, 175 overall?  That's not that much to give up to nail down a backup QB spot.  

 

5th rounders are typically ST players, role players and backups.  If you spend a 5th to get a guy you KNOW will fill those roles, you are taking a ton of risk out of using the asset.  

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just because you trade a pick doesn't = guaranteed success either.  Go talk to Brandon Lloyd, Jammal Brown, D. McNabb, TJ Duckett, Clinton-Dix, Jason Taylor, etc. 

Come on, this isn't the same as any of those trades and you know it.  

 

Lloyd cost a 3rd round pick, and they were expecting him to contribute right away.

Jamal Brown cost (at the time) a 3rd or 4th to be the immediate starter at RT

D. McNabb cost a 3rd and a future 4th, and was expected to be the starter

TJ Duckett cost a 3rd round pick and was a panic move by Vinny because Portis separated his shoulder.  

Clinton-Dix cost a 4th and was expected to be a starter

Jason Taylor cost a 2nd and was expected to be a starter.

 

This deal is not comparable to any of those deals.  This is a late round pick for a backup QB.  It's not a second, third or fourth round pick.  The greatest likelihood is the best that pick turns into is a rotational player.  The greater odds is it's a ST player who lasts 2 years.  

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just look at every transaction on its own.  I would rather get a FA Qb for nothing than giving up a high 5th round for one.  If you disagree, cool.  You aren't selling me that it is otherwise so let's agree to disagree? 

I would rather not spend $18m, with $10m guaranteed on a backup QB who stinks, doesn't know the system, and probably can't play over a guy costing $600k, knows the system, the coach, is young and can fit in.

 

I look at all of the assets together: cap space, draft picks, roster spots. And if you can solve an immediate and glaring need with a 5th round pick, and not have to pay "normal" backup money, that's a win.

 

By really any measure, this was a really good deal for the 'Skins.  

[Bacon]

LOL this thread is going crazy over a 5th round pick? I remember the Jason Taylor trade when the wound was fresh. This is like a paper cut at worst, as opposed to being shot in the back repeatedly when Vinny was at the helm.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Number 44]

7 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

A 5 is steep for a guy ranked 32 of 32. That's pretty bad.

 

You're comparing him to Brady, Mahomes, and Jackson, rather than other backup QBs.  Your comparison is apples and oranges, and therefore quite worthless.

[Poindexter]

At the end of the day we are in rebuild mode and getting a lot of clutter off this roster is key.  I think getting the right people in the building is key and having a strong core of players is even more important.  I think we will be legit contenders in about two years.  We have been waiting this long...I'm willing to wait two more years for Ron and Kyle to piece together a really good team.  Being able to draft BPA for the next two years will put us in great position.

 

[rumplestilskin]

2 minutes ago, Bacon said:

LOL this thread is going crazy over a 5th round pick? I remember the Jason Taylor trade when the wound was fresh. This is like a paper cut at worst, as opposed to being shot in the back repeatedly when Vinny was at the helm.

All these sports starved fans are jonesing for any drama to ellivate the dopamine levels.

3 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

You're comparing him to Brady, Mahomes, and Jackson, rather than other backup QBs.  Your comparison is apples and oranges, and therefore quite worthless.

He does have more wins than our QB too.

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, rumplestilskin said:

All these sports starved fans are jonesing for any drama to ellivate the dopamine levels.

 

It's true. I can't imagine the intensity that will be unleashed when we actually get to watch football again. 

 

Trading Dunbar away for a 5th is much worse than trading a 5th for Kyle Allen, but what the hell, hopefully we get someone with that pick who actually wants to play for us. After a certain point, you have to cut bait. 

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Gonna sign Clowney, draft Young, Sweat is going to be our new tight end. 

Apparently Sweat was a top TE recruits in high school.  6'6/262, 4.41/40.  With his height, arm length, and hand size, all you have to do is put it where the defender can't get to it (assuming Sweat can still catch).  Helluva red zone target.  If an UDFA like Dunbar can be retrained as a CB, why can't Sweat be "retrained" as a position he was very good at in high school?