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The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby


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31 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Boy did I get that wrong.  I thought he went to Chicago.  Ok, point still holds.  He is a $6m backup for Baker Mayfield.  3 years, $18m, $10 guaranteed.  

 

But the point is still 100% valid.  He's a "meh" backup. 

He is.

 

But this is how i look at it. A back-up QB who's smart and won't look rattled if called upon is more important than a dynamic back-up. Honestly. There's a reason guys like Chase Daniel and Colt McCoy keep getting work despite never really starting. It's a security measure. They can pick up whatever offense they're in and you don't have to dramatically alter the schemes for them. 

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


Turner is a very big fan of Kyle Allen’s. 

 

Haskins isn’t out of the woods yet.

 

Yep. 

 

I gather that some are upset that this move isn't universally embraced by all -- it shows in some of the hyperbole and sarcastic comments about the arguments directed at those who dissent on the move.   But if we are talking pure football, and I am trying to see the sunshine of the move then I'd have to believe that Rivera-Turner believe that Kyle could seriously push Haskins for real.    I don't think they see it as Kyle Allen purely serving as a mentor and tutor to Haskins but instead a dude who knows the playbook backwards and forward and thereby can push Haskins to do the same among other things.

 

If I am selling this move.  No way I buy Scott Turner sold Allen as a pure clipboard holder who will just answer questions from Haskins when he has them.  That doesn't mean I think that they believe that Allen beats Haskins for the job -- but I'd gather they think its in enough range to push Haskins and if Allen has to play he's a bonafide starter or something like that. 

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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If it is a complete crap shoot, why bother with Kyle Smith?  Let's just go on the cheap and just hire any random dude to throw darts at the draft board.

The best talent evaluators are wrong more than they are right.  Bethard traded up for Leaf.  One of the most disastrous trades in the history of the NFL.  And I think we can all agree that Bethard was a heck of a good GM.  

 

You get the best personnel guy you can get, and then you use the assets you have the best way possible.  

 

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If it means nothing to you that Kyle nailed the last two 5th rounders and it means nothing to you about how this specific draft is being billed -- then we are wasting each other's time.

Wait, he did what now?

 

In 219, they picked up Ross Pierschbacher and Holcomb in the 5th. The first 3 picks look promising: Haskins, Sweat, McLaurin.  Love hasn't played (they knew that when they picked him).  We don't know about Pierschbacher.  Holcomb seems like a really good find.  

 

In the 2018 draft, In the 5th they got Tim Settle.  Is that really a hit? And it's accompanied by 3 misses as of now before Settle: 2nd - Guice, 3rd - Christian, 4th - Apke.  And  Guice could stay healthy and change that.  But hasn't so far. 

 

In 2017 they got Sprinkle in the 5th. 

 

So in the last 3 years, we have 4 5th rounders.  1 player is very good (Holcomb), two are backups/role players (Settle/Sprinkle). One hasn't played yet.  That's about right for the 5th round.  4 picks, 1 good player, 3 role players/backups.

 

Actually, the 6th round has been better: 2017: Rouliier, 2018: SDH, 2019: Harmon.  Which again goes to show, the draft is a complete crap shoot.  If anybody thought they would have been as good as they have turned out to be, they would have been picked earlier.  

 

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I understand all the arguments about the "value" of veterans in trades versus draft picks.  Heck Gibbs and Cerrato could have done tutorials on the argument.  I've heard them both make that case many times.  I used to call in to a show years ago called Redskins Lunch and Gibbs would take questions from fans.  Once I dared to talk to Gibbs about trading picks for veterans -- it was a fun conversation, talking to a legend but I disagreed with his point then.  I still do now.

 

I rarely have liked trades for picks in real time but in retrospect they've been even worse.  Hard to think of cases where we've given up picks where it resulted in a plus.  Maybe Thrash for a 5th?  Brunell I guess one good season.  We all know the others. 

Giving up a 5th rounder is just not a big deal.  It's different than giving up a first, second or third. Again, with fifth round picks you are looking for role players and backups.  And they got a cheap one at a position of need.

 

Shrug.  You place an enormous amount of stock in the draft.  I think it's important, but I also think it's just one tool in building the roster.  And anything after a 3rd round pick you're looking at possible contributors.  So if you can flip a 5th rounder for a real need, I see no problem with that.

 

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Washington is placing trust in him: Multiple sources said over the past several days that coach Ron Rivera & Co. would not be adding a veteran quarterback such as Cam Newton or Jameis Winston. The Redskins' staff clearly knows Newton well, having coached him for nine years in Carolina. But they want to develop Haskins, and if they had added someone of Newton's caliber, that player almost assuredly would enter camp as the starter. They like the way Haskins finished the 2019 season and want him to have a legitimate shot to prove he's their guy for 2020 and beyond. While Rivera hasn't yet said Haskins will start, it's clearly trending in that direction. Allen is viewed as a capable backup who can start if Haskins falters.

 

Haskins has another voice who knows the offense: There's a chance players might not participate in offseason workouts, and with Haskins having to learn Rivera's offense, it was imperative to add someone who is already experienced in this system. One source said the Redskins weren't just going to add someone for that reason, but it certainly helps. Haskins must piece together offensive coordinator Scott Turner's system by watching film and studying the routes favored in Carolina the past two seasons. He's been doing all of that, then throwing passes on all those routes in individual workouts this spring. Haskins has talked to others he knows around the league about the offense, and he works with people who know the system. But having another quarterback on the roster who knows the playbook, someone he can communicate with, can only help.

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22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The best talent evaluators are wrong more than they are right.  Bethard traded up for Leaf.  One of the most disastrous trades in the history of the NFL.  And I think we can all agree that Bethard was a heck of a good GM.  

 

You get the best personnel guy you can get, and then you use the assets you have the best way possible.  

 

 

Yeah we all know the same cliche draft argument.  The draft has no guarantees.  In fact, the rule of thumb is typically to ADD as many picks as you can because your best shot of striking big is more bites at the apple not less. 

 

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

In 219, they picked up Ross Pierschbacher and Holcomb in the 5th. The first 3 picks look promising: Haskins, Sweat, McLaurin.  Love hasn't played (they knew that when they picked him).  We don't know about Pierschbacher.  Holcomb seems like a really good find.  

 

In the 2018 draft, In the 5th they got Tim Settle.  Is that really a hit? And it's accompanied by 3 misses as of now before Settle: 2nd - Guice, 3rd - Christian, 4th - Apke.  And  Guice could stay healthy and change that.  But hasn't so far. 

 

 

I'd take almost every player you mention over a backup QB.   You talk up the crapshoot of the draft as if the alternative isn't a crap shoot.    

 

Just because you trade a pick doesn't = guaranteed success either.  Go talk to Brandon Lloyd, Jammal Brown, D. McNabb, TJ Duckett, Clinton-Dix, Jason Taylor, etc. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

Shrug.  You place an enormous amount of stock in the draft.  I think it's important, but I also think it's just one tool in building the roster.  And anything after a 3rd round pick you're looking at possible contributors.  So if you can flip a 5th rounder for a real need, I see no problem with that.

 

 

I just look at every transaction on its own.  I would rather get a FA Qb for nothing than giving up a high 5th round for one.  If you disagree, cool.  You aren't selling me that it is otherwise so let's agree to disagree? 

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16 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

@Skinsinparadise yeah Allen is going to come in, know the system inside out, know most of the staff very well. Haskins will have a fight on his hands in my opinion.

 

I agree.  No way I think Rivera-Turner are going to play that up IMO publicly or leak it. 

 

But behind the scenes I think they might see him as the perfect foil to push Haskins.  He knows the playbook and has played enough to push Haskins where Haskins doesn't take the job for granted -- but at the same time he doesn't have the talent to beat Haskins for the job at the end.   Or something like that.

 

I could be wrong.  But if I am going to embrace the argument here of some of how its a good move -- it would be that type of logic that I'd have to be think is in play at least for me.  Otherwise that's too steep of a price for a backup, if he's just purely a clipboard holding tutor who poses zero threat to be a starter here or anywhere. 

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3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Maybe, but he cut 4 other guys too? 

Guys who barely played, late season street free agents signed because of injury. Cutting them is like not giving a practice squad member a futures contract

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Dunbar to Seattle for a fifth.

 

Poor return, but to be expected. We have essentially dropped 20+ spots in the fifth round now. Wish we did this first and traded Allen for this fifth.

 

Or maybe we did? Maybe we're playing checkers and the Skins are playing 3D chess.

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