Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby


Riggo-toni

Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  I'd add also, not every pick in each round is equal.  The 2nd pick of the 5th round is a real nice one.   

 

In some of the mock simulations I've done, I've gotten guys like Tyler Johnson, Duvernay, Van Jefferson among others that late.  Also vintage territory I think for that next tier of TEs:  Hopkins, Bryant, etc.    When guys like Jeremiah among others say this is the deepest WR group he's even seen -- I think he's 100% on the money. 

 

Yeah, 148 has been a good pick.  I've also gotten guys like Joe Bachie and Anfernee Jennings and AJ Dillon in that spot.

 

But even if this draft weren't unusually strong, the trade would still be a really bad value.  Giving up a fifth for a back up QB who has barely any more experience than the prospect we're trying to develop, who is a turnover machine, and who was one of the worst players at the position last season is a bad overpay.  This is something that should have been done for no more than fifth round positioning or for the late seventh rounder we had.

 

That 49.7 PFF score that Allen had last season is absolutely brutal.  That's like someone giving us a 5th round pick for Jeremy Sprinkle.  We would all be mocking the other team if that happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thinking has come around to the 2020-21 season being predominantly about implementing Rivera's system and getting every one on the same page ( It's Ron's way or the Highway). The amount of wins for next season is not the biggest priority (sigh... I guess). I believe the goal is to go into the 2021-22 season with extra cap space, young talent, decent depth with Rivera's scheme fully implemented and a focus on the players that can help them win. I am resigned to 2020-21 as a rebuild season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not surprised Nicholson was cut, as their was going to be issues with the numbers at safety. And Apke at least can play teams. I am a bit surprised they did it this early in the offseason. Guess he's really not worth the headache.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, actorguy1 said:

My thinking has come around to the 2020-21 season being predominantly about implementing Rivera's system and getting every one on the same page ( It's Ron's way or the Highway). The amount of wins for next season is not the biggest priority (sigh... I guess). I believe the goal is to go into the 2021-22 season with extra cap space, young talent, decent depth with Rivera's scheme fully implemented and a focus on the players that can help them win. I am resigned to 2020-21 as a rebuild season.

Bingo!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Assuming a Trent Williams and Quinton Dunbar trade, we're looking at roughly $40-42 million in remaining cap space, depending on what the Fuller Year 1 cap hit is ... since that contract has not been announced or reflected on OTC calculations. Kyle Allen doesn't impact the Salary Cap as he just bumps a Top 51 guy back off the Top 51 (minimum salary).

 

Montae frees up $2m ... the rest of the cuts only save about $600k due to the way the Top 51 contracts are calculated. A couple of the vets carried $900k or $1m deals ... but you only get the cap space for whatever that is over the $610k min contract at the bottom of the Top 51.

 

Current cap WITH Trent and Dunbar is around $26m assuming an $8m salary hit in 2020 for Fuller.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Many who follow the draft closely (including old timers who has been involved in decades of drafts like Gil Brandt) believe you can find a 2nd-3rd round type WR in the 4th-5th round in this draft.  No one was saying the same last year or the year's before draft was historic as to the WR position.  If you don't believe that and prefer to have theoretical conversations about what a 5th rounder have meant historically -- cool.  I just want to double down why that argument has no meaning to me.  Every draft to me isn't the same.

 

I am the same dude who was begging them to take McLaurin in the 3rd before we took him and Harmon before we took him.  I've gotten some wrong, too.  But I do believe this draft is much more special than last years draft at WR and its not even close.  I don't care about what happen in 2017 or whatever as part of that discussion, its irrelevant to me. 

 

If they gave up a 7th for him, I'd be fine.  But a high 5th to me is overpayment.  And we are already missing some picks.  If there is a draft to double down on in the mid rounds versus cutting picks IMO its this draft.

And many who follow the draft closely and have for years are more wrong than they are right. 

 

Evaluators mess it up all the time.  Teams mess it up all the time.  

 

The draft is a complete crap shoot. It always has been, currently is, and will continue to be forever.  You do all the work, you take your best shot, and in the 5th round, statistics say you get role players 80% of the time and the rest bust out immediately. I don't remember the exact number, but it's somewhere near 80% of 5th round picks don't even make it to negotiate a second contract.  

 

And there is ALWAYS a position of strength in every draft where the "experts" say you can get a 3rd/4th round grade in the 5th round. Sometimes it's WR, other times it's Guard, yet others it's tackle.  You know what happens more often than not?  They're all wrong and the whole thing regresses to the mean.

 

Another possibility is there is an insane run on WRs in the 2nd and 3rd, and they're all gone.  You just never know.  

 

In the 5th round you're looking for role players and backups.  And we got a role player and a backup.   Who knows the coach, knows the system, has played, and is cheap as dirt. 

 

The draft is important, but the insane value people place on late round picks is astounding.  You win with blue-chip players supplemented by role players. If we picked a QB in the 5th, we would expect them to develop into a backup.  But this way, our backup already is somewhat developed.  

 

If they could have gotten him for a 6th, great.  But I prefer Allen for a 5th than some jabroni in FA who has to learn the system for $6m.  Which is what Keenum got to be a competitive backup in Chicago.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

 

Well..considering the back-up QB might not take a single snap, it's not that big of a hole. But no one's advocating not signing a back-up QB. Simply pointing out there are far cheaper ways to do so. With players just as good as (and better than) Allen. 

I would point out Case Keenum received $6m to go to Chicago to compete with Mitch.  

 

We're paying Allen, what, $600k? For a 5th round pick?  And he knows the offense?  And he knows the coach?  And he could start the season if Haskins can't grasp the offense fast enough since they won't practice until training camp?  

 

I'll take that.

 

Edit: I’m an idiot.  Keenum went to Cleveland to back up Baker.  3 year deal, $18m, $10 guaranteed. Point still holds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I would point out Case Keenum received $6m to go to Chicago to compete with Mitch.  

 

We're paying Allen, what, $600k? For a 5th round pick?  And he knows the offense?  And he knows the coach?  And he could start the season if Haskins can't grasp the offense fast enough since they won't practice until training camp?  

 

I'll take that.

Sure that he'll get extended too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I would point out Case Keenum received $6m to go to Chicago to compete with Mitch.  

 

We're paying Allen, what, $600k? For a 5th round pick?  And he knows the offense?  And he knows the coach?  And he could start the season if Haskins can't grasp the offense fast enough since they won't practice until training camp?  

 

I'll take that.

Gonna real tough competing with Mitch from Cleveland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Califan007 WHY THE HELL CAN'T I QUOTE YOUR POSTS?

 

I will fix that.  Ooops. 

 

Your gif game is insane.  

 

We should do ES Superlatives.  I probably win for "most likely to respond to a one like post with a novel."  You would win "best gif game."  Maybe I'll start a tailgate thread on this.  Or maybe it's dangerous...

 

 

 

 

At least you do know I read your posts, regardless of their length lol...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And many who follow the draft closely and have for years are more wrong than they are right. 

 

Evaporators mess it up all the time.  Teams mess it up all the time.  

 

The draft is a complete crap shoot. It always has been, currently is, and will continue to be forever.  

 

If it is a complete crap shoot, why bother with Kyle Smith?  Let's just go on the cheap and just hire any random dude to throw darts at the draft board.

 

If it means nothing to you that Kyle nailed the last two 5th rounders and it means nothing to you about how this specific draft is being billed -- then we are wasting each other's time.

 

I understand all the arguments about the "value" of veterans in trades versus draft picks.  Heck Gibbs and Cerrato could have done tutorials on the argument.  I've heard them both make that case many times.  I used to call in to a show years ago called Redskins Lunch and Gibbs would take questions from fans.  Once I dared to talk to Gibbs about trading picks for veterans -- it was a fun conversation, talking to a legend but I disagreed with his point then.  I still do now.

 

I rarely have liked trades for picks in real time but in retrospect they've been even worse.  Hard to think of cases where we've given up picks where it resulted in a plus.  Maybe Thrash for a 5th?  Brunell I guess one good season.  We all know the others. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Gonna real tough competing with Mitch from Cleveland.

Boy did I get that wrong.  I thought he went to Chicago.  Ok, point still holds.  He is a $6m backup for Baker Mayfield.  3 years, $18m, $10 guaranteed.  

 

But the point is still 100% valid.  He's a "meh" backup. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If it means nothing to you that Kyle nailed the last two 5th rounders and it means nothing to you about how this specific draft is being billed -- then we are wasting each other's time.

 

Just going with this logic, Kyle is the one who decided that this trade was worth it. So, if you trust him to make this pick than he (at the behest of the head coach who probably said, I'd like you to get us Allen) thought a five was worth executing.

 

Mind you, I'd rather this have been a conditional sixth, but what can ya do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:


Maybe, just maybe, Rivera and Turner have a better understanding of his value than you?

I would hope so. :)  A 5th is a lot to give up for him at this point in his career.  Just saying. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Assuming a Trent Williams and Quinton Dunbar trade, we're looking at roughly $40-42 million in remaining cap space, depending on what the Fuller Year 1 cap hit is ... since that contract has not been announced or reflected on OTC calculations. Kyle Allen doesn't impact the Salary Cap as he just bumps a Top 51 guy back off the Top 51 (minimum salary).

 

Montae frees up $2m ... the rest of the cuts only save about $600k due to the way the Top 51 contracts are calculated. A couple of the vets carried $900k or $1m deals ... but you only get the cap space for whatever that is over the $610k min contract at the bottom of the Top 51.

 

Current cap WITH Trent and Dunbar is around $26m assuming an $8m salary hit in 2020 for Fuller.

I thought the current cap before these players were released was 32.5m, so we should be closer to 35m, I might be wrong though. 

 

HTTR 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Dude...we're in the middle of a meltdown here over a backup QB and a 5th round pick that was destined to be a HOF'er. We don't have time to talk about the Bucs!!! Sheesh.

 

And Brady playing for the Bucs is too bizarre to contemplate!!!

 

 

 

giphy.gif

Well said sir.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I've found my first crack in my trust for RR unless someone can explain this to me. RR just said in an interview that "my staff doesn't know these guys yet" when asked about why Dunbar hasn't been offered an extension. RR said he wants to see these guys at minicamp before deciding.

So, how can he cut 5 db's including last years starting safety unless he knows what he has in these guys? He can't have it both ways. i think he knows exactly what he has in Dunbar and the rest of the team. If you don't know guys then how can you justify bringing in free agents? 

I'm not complaining but I'm not buying all of what RR is selling across the board.


Perhaps he doesn’t want to put up with Nicholson’s BS off the field?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Burgold said:

Just going with this logic, Kyle is the one who decided that this trade was worth it. So, if you trust him to make this pick than he (at the behest of the head coach who probably said, I'd like you to get us Allen) thought a five was worth executing.

 

Mind you, I'd rather this have been a conditional sixth, but what can ya do.

 

Kyle Smith doesn't have the final word Rivera does.  It's pretty safe to presume this was Scott Turner pushing it really hard.  Turner was the dude who worked with Kyle Allen.  Rivera was there when Allen was brought in as a rookie.  I'd seriously doubt that this one has Kyle Smith's finger prints all over it.   

 

Here's Allen talking up Rivera and how much he means to him on and off the field, then talks up Turner.  Clearly, there is a good relationship on that front. 

 

https://www.panthers.com/video/kyle-allen-talks-about-his-relationship-with-scott-turner

 

It's not the end of the world at all. 😀  But man I've been talking about trading down to add a mid rounder in this draft, it never occurred to me that they'd actually subtract one.  That was a bit jarring to me.  It would be one thing if it was for a starter but a backup?   And I got some pessimism about them trading Trent or Dunbar based on what's being said lately.   Will see. 

 

IMO they overpaid for backup and this was a bad draft to do that for.  Simple as that.   It won't sink the team.  But the whole thread is party about pushing players and or endorsing or panning moves as they come.  I've not panned a single move thus far.  This one I don't like.    As for Allen specifically, I got no clue.  He wasn't a highly touted college QB, he went undrafted.  He got off to a hot start playing last year and then cooled off big time and ended up with poor stats.  I don't typically expect much from backup QBs, so i don't have an issue really with any backup they'd acquire but this is a stacked FA on that count so why give up draft capital?  That's really 100% of my point. 

 

And if I had to reach deeper for why they were willing to give up that much, I'd suspect Turner sold the powers that be that Kyle could seriously give Haskins a run for his money.  Otherwise, a 5th rounder is a bit steep to just give Haskins a tutor.  I'd presume Turner sold them on this dude is a starter quality.  I do agree that Rivera is a smart dude.  I don't know enough about Scott Turner yet to say the same about him.  But if I had to guess this, I'd guess that Rivera was talked into Allen being more that just a backup but a dude who is the legitimate threat (that Rivera has been hyping he wants) to challenge Haskins for the job and thereby bring out Haskins' best.  Will see. 

Screen Shot 2020-03-23 at 5.08.11 PM.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...