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The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby


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If we can fetch a 3rd for Collins and absorb some of the cap for the team that gets him I think that's a win.  He's been here 2 years and he's average.

 

We have two 3rd rounders now, adding another could give us more options in moving up in the draft if we need to.

 

The Giants were smart to not pay him.

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2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'd move Collins to OLB. Our defense has been so much better with Curl at SS, if Collins doesn't want to move he should ride the bench imo. 

 

 

We dont know that.  Our defense has been playing better recently, but is that because of Curl or because they're now 12 weeks into the process?  Who is to say that Collins isn't even better than Curl after grasping the system?  Football is instinct, when you think, you hesitate... resulting in blown assignments and missed tackles.  Something Collins did before he got hurt, but not before this year.  

 

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6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Standig

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-12-11 at 10.39.38 AM.png

Screen Shot 2020-12-11 at 10.40.06 AM.png

Screen Shot 2020-12-11 at 10.41.09 AM.png


So worried about this. Ron does seem to have a good amount of ego involved (unfortunate, but hopefully he manages it or learns along the way), so it’s trending towards Smith being out. Man, I love the idea of having a guy that challenges Rivera with personnel related stuff behind the scenes for the betterment of the team. 
 

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That article by Standig @Skinsinparadiseposted is perfect evidence for why I believe the media plays a major role in the general ignorance of fans regarding sound organizational structure at the pro level. 
 

There’s so much I can go into in dismantling what he said throughout its entirety, but I’ll just point to the end of that article that shows just how easily they perpetuate falsehoods that mislead people. 
 

He mentions both the Chiefs and Seahawks as examples of “building around the Coach” and analogous to what Snyder did when hiring Rivera. 
 

This couldn’t be further from the truth.
 

Snyder has implemented this structure multiple times. It isn’t new for us. In fact, it’s the same pattern he always employs after a coach operating under one of his unqualified executives gets fired:

 

Casserly/Turner

Marty with total autonomy

Vinny/Spurrier

Gibbs with total autonomy

Vinny/Zorn

Shanahan with total autonomy

Allen/Gruden

Rivera with total autonomy

 

He gives the new coaching hire total power and final say over everything (at least initially and on the surface, of course, we know what ends up happening regardless). We should call this “Snyder’s Coach Emperor” approach if we want to be accurate and shouldn’t use “coach-centric” as that is significantly misleading. 
 

The Chiefs “coach-centric” approach is not comparable. The only thing similar is that the Head Coach was hired first, but structurally you have a GM with final say over his department and a coach with final say over his, both equals in terms of hierarchy and both reporting to Hunt; the CEO and Chairman. 
 

The Seahawks are a better comparison since Carroll officially/contractually holds final say over everything, but we’re still not the same because Schneider actually does have the GM title and we have too many reports from multiple sources (including Carroll himself) that he does have final say over the roster during the offseason, whereas Carroll has final say over the 53 during the season. So, again, that is a structure more conducive to success than the one we have here currently, even though it looks the same contractually. 
 

We can say Rivera is collaborating all we want (everyone claims to, including Bruce Allen who would say it all the time), but this current structure remains one in which fails at a much higher rate than one in which a personnel-evaluating expert has the title and power to go with his expertise.

 

I mean, it’s not complicated. It’s sound organizational principles 101. Create supporting roles and hire the people who are qualified experts at those roles and give them the power to fulfill those roles without unwarranted interference. 
 

Something that simply goes beyond Snyder’s capacity, clearly. :( 
 

It’s not ideal, but I’d be fine if we were just like the Seahawks and, even though it’d be unofficial and not contractually based, it was made known that Kyle was GM and had final say over the roster during the offseason. 
 

Until then, no one should be going around throwing names out there like the Chiefs, Bills, Seahawks, etc... as examples of organizational success that we’re emulating. It was false when Snyder originally said it and it’s false when the media does. 
 

The only legit comparison of a sustainably successful organization employing this “Coach Emperor” approach is with the Patriots. And I won’t go into it much here, but I’ve given plenty of evidence as to why that’s not a good route to go and that evidence has only increased with what has happened this year, suffice to say. For more on this, if anyone would like, see here: 

 

https://es.redskins.com/topic/428387-0mgz-trent-williams-finally-showed-up/?do=findComment&comment=11516463


And here:

 

https://es.redskins.com/topic/428387-0mgz-trent-williams-finally-showed-up/?do=findComment&comment=11516756

 

 

Now before anyone loses their minds because I’m not being positive enough, don’t worry, I can satisfy your homerrific urges. 
 

There are positives to our current structure, and arguably they’re more significant positives than at any other time during Snyder’s tenure:
 

1) Snyder is at his lowest in terms of

public perception and is busy with all these lawsuits, so that alone makes it more difficult for him to corrupt the organizational hierarchy. Now, that’s happened before of course and he eventually gets back to being himself, but this is the worst it’s ever been for him. So we have a “football guy” in Rivera who has more power than anyone ever before him, at least for the moment, even Gibbs (we know Snyder was heavily involved in everything with Gibbs). 
 

2) We have an actual personnel-evaluating expert in Kyle Smith on top of that department and a bigger scouting department in general than ever before. So while the structure is not ideal with Ron having total autonomy, he does have better support with personnel-evaluating than any coach has ever had before him here. 
 

3) Ron is a good guy and does understand how to work in unison with others. He does understand the importance of hierarchy and knows what his role should be. One of the things that bothered me was that he said, before being hired here, that he didn’t want total control and understood that a GM should have final say over the roster during the offseason whereas he only has it over the 53 during the season. But then that was thrown away because of Snyder’s incorrect version of a “Coach-centric” approach. Snyder essentially hijacked a modern buzz word within NFL circles but still employed his “Coach Emperor” philosophy that he’s always had in the past. Rivera seemingly fell for it and repeated what Snyder told him as being why the job appealed to him.
 

Nonetheless, it’s good that Rivera understood this proper structure prior to being hired and it may be, as @Skinsinparadiseposits, that he accepted this structure only to keep Snyder at bay himself. I have issues with that argument, but it’s certainly one we can have hope in. 
 

It’s just sad that’s what we have to cling to. I don’t blame Rivera for any of this, as has been consistent with my understanding for a long time now in terms of not pointing the finger here at coaches considering their environment, I solely blame Snyder. 

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2 hours ago, wit33 said:


So worried about this. Ron does seem to have a good amount of ego involved (unfortunate, but hopefully he manages it or learns along the way), so it’s trending towards Smith being out. Man, I love the idea of having a guy that challenges Rivera with personnel related stuff behind the scenes for the betterment of the team. 
 

 

I like Rivera a lot but agree I want a GM who doesn't just cater to him.  Kyle Smith IMO has been really good at his job.  No coincidence I think this is the first time we've had a good FA crop in a long time just happens to be when he took over that department. 

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11 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

The Seahawks are a better comparison since Carroll officially holds final say over everything, but we’re still not the same because Schneider actually does have the GM title and we have too many reports that he does have final say over the roster during the offseason, whereas Carroll has final say over the 53 during the season. So, again, that is a structure more conducive to success than the one we have here currently, even though it looks the same contractually. 

 

Agree with this, though I could swear Carroll has sign off regardless of context.  As far as media guys go some have different takes, Russell (unless i am mistaking him for another 106.7 guy) for example has said he heard Ron and Kyle were very close during the off season.  He said the same thing about Jay and Kyle.   Russell though also said he thinks Kyle bails if he doesn't get the title/promotion.  Will see. 

 

11 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Nonetheless, it’s good that Rivera understood this proper structure prior to being hired and it may be, as @Skinsinparadiseposits, that he accepted this structure only to keep Snyder at bay himself. I have issues with that argument, but it’s certainly one we can have hope in. 
 

It’s just sad that’s what we have to cling to. I don’t blame Rivera for any of this, as has been consistent with my understanding for a long time now in terms of not pointing the finger here at coaches considering their environment, I solely blame Snyder. 

 

I posted somewhere recently an article that suggests Rivera manages Dan well and he might be the best shot to manage Dan since Gibbs.  i think you need a certain personality to work Dan.  Bruce arguably worked Dan but in self serving ways that didn't help the franchise.  Rivera like Gibbs I believe are special at managing people including difficult people and still achieving results.  

 

I've given up on Dan.  I don't think he's redeemable or can improve.  I think the dude is a train wreck.  I think you need either a GM or a HC who can both massage his ego, make him feel included, and move the team forward.  I love Kyle Smith but from what I've read about him -- massaging egos is not his niche.  

 

Keim in particular likes to say with Dan the coach has to make him feel that their ideas or his ideas and stuff like that.  

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8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've given up on Dan.  I don't think he's redeemable or can improve.  I think the dude is a train wreck.  I think you need either a GM or a HC who can both massage his ego, make him feel included, and move the team forward.  I love Kyle Smith but from what I've read about him -- massaging egos is not his niche.  

 

Keim in particular likes to say with Dan the coach has to make him feel that their ideas or his ideas and stuff like that.  


Yeah, I know, I know. It’s just so sad that we have to simply accept this as our norm. What a disastrous situation for fans to be in. :( 

 

That being said, my counter to this is we simply haven’t seen Snyder with an actual qualified personnel exec fulfilling that specific role with autonomy. So as much of a train wreck as he is, and as much as I agree with you regarding his ego and what it entails, I just don’t see how that automatically means this is the only, or best, way we can find sustainable success under him. 
 

That being said, if it is the best way, that means we’ll forever be limited by it and it’s unlikely we’ll ever see sustainable success because of how difficult it is to win in the NFL with this structure. I mean, draft Tom Brady in the sixth round, I guess, that works. Just very sad. :( 

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“I would like to stay here. My wife and I love it here,” Scherff said Friday speaking with the Washington Football Talk podcast. Scherff is playing the 2020 season on the franchise tag, which pays him $15 million but expires at the end of the season. That means Scherff could be a free agent next March.

“We love all our teammates and coaches here,” Scherff said. “I’ve always told her I want to stay where I got drafted to finish it out so I would love to stay here.”

 

Ron Rivera spoke highly of Scherff as a player and teammate this month, but quarterback Alex Smith’s comments about Scherff this week stood out.

“I think Brandon’s the total package. From a talent standpoint I think that he’s the best player in that position in the league, one of the best teammates I’ve ever had,” Smith said. “It means so much to him. He’s so invested into this team. Like I said, you can feel his energy in the huddle. You certainly miss it when he’s gone. It’s significant. He’s that type of player. Not just from, like I said, a talent standpoint, but certainly his leadership, his energy, and the attitude he brings to the huddle every day.”

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12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

“I would like to stay here. My wife and I love it here,” Scherff said Friday speaking with the Washington Football Talk podcast. Scherff is playing the 2020 season on the franchise tag, which pays him $15 million but expires at the end of the season. That means Scherff could be a free agent next March.

“We love all our teammates and coaches here,” Scherff said. “I’ve always told her I want to stay where I got drafted to finish it out so I would love to stay here.”

 

Ron Rivera spoke highly of Scherff as a player and teammate this month, but quarterback Alex Smith’s comments about Scherff this week stood out.

“I think Brandon’s the total package. From a talent standpoint I think that he’s the best player in that position in the league, one of the best teammates I’ve ever had,” Smith said. “It means so much to him. He’s so invested into this team. Like I said, you can feel his energy in the huddle. You certainly miss it when he’s gone. It’s significant. He’s that type of player. Not just from, like I said, a talent standpoint, but certainly his leadership, his energy, and the attitude he brings to the huddle every day.”

 

If Rivera wants to build culture, he keeps people like Scherff.

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4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Scherff going to get big money but that sounds like he genuinely would rather stay here, which suggests we may find some reasonable middle ground on a long term deal.

Hopeful but Scherff has to be realistic as the team does.  He has suffered injuries/time on the field over the past few seasons being the highest paid OG in the league and one that has played only RG if I'm not mistaken means we shouldn't over pay.  JMO.  :)

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On 12/11/2020 at 11:52 PM, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'd move Collins to OLB. Our defense has been so much better with Curl at SS, if Collins doesn't want to move he should ride the bench imo. 

JDR said they had Curl playing a hybrid LB'er position they created in the system when Collins was playing.  When Collins comes back I don't believe for a second that they get worse or that Curl automatically leaves the field.  In a system like this having both these guys is WIN - WIN for 2021.  In 2022 you could look at Collins to save some cap money if you needed it.  However, as we've seen DEPTH is crucial to winning.  I do view, obviously that the Collins contract is inflated but not by more than the negative consequences of the dead cap consequence of cutting him.  I think I'll trust that JDR can scheme it up to make it worthwhile vs signing a FA LB'er or 2. 

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1 hour ago, TheShredder said:

JDR said they had Curl playing a hybrid LB'er position they created in the system when Collins was playing.  When Collins comes back I don't believe for a second that they get worse or that Curl automatically leaves the field.  In a system like this having both these guys is WIN - WIN for 2021.  In 2022 you could look at Collins to save some cap money if you needed it.  However, as we've seen DEPTH is crucial to winning.  I do view, obviously that the Collins contract is inflated but not by more than the negative consequences of the dead cap consequence of cutting him.  I think I'll trust that JDR can scheme it up to make it worthwhile vs signing a FA LB'er or 2. 

Wasn't that what they had expected for Hudson?

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2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Wasn't that what they had expected for Hudson?

I'm not sure about Hudson.  They do have need for better LB'er play so whether you use Collins or Curl or BOTH to confuse QB's and hide D formations and solve some issues at LB'er at the same time, it's one less player need in filling out the D.

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2 hours ago, TheShredder said:

JDR said they had Curl playing a hybrid LB'er position they created in the system when Collins was playing.  When Collins comes back I don't believe for a second that they get worse or that Curl automatically leaves the field.  In a system like this having both these guys is WIN - WIN for 2021.  In 2022 you could look at Collins to save some cap money if you needed it.  However, as we've seen DEPTH is crucial to winning.  I do view, obviously that the Collins contract is inflated but not by more than the negative consequences of the dead cap consequence of cutting him.  I think I'll trust that JDR can scheme it up to make it worthwhile vs signing a FA LB'er or 2. 

I don't think Curl will leave the field either, I'm also not sure he has the body type to continually bang around without suffering some sort of injury in the future. Seems like if you have to create a brand new position for a guy because he's so good you should allow that guy to actually play his natural position. Why get cute? Collins has struggled far too much with pursuit angles and coverage since being here, I really hope we can trade him somehow. 

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