Riggo-toni

The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Flowers plucked, Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, S Sean Davis, RB McKissic, TE Logan Thomas OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), TE Rodgers, RB P. Barber, LB Davis, OL Vujnovich, Darb

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How can It be a list of few when some haven't even played for us... let alone played in the NFL, I'd say Adrian Peterson and Terry M is about it.

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5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Most likely, but you never really know.  He could fill a need.  I watched him a lot at LSU.  He made a lot of plays.  Granted, he benefited from outstanding players across the board, but I think he showed more on film in his ability to make plays than the measurables would suggest.

 

I grant that he could eventually fill a need down the road. But in the context of calling him a "weapon" a week after he went undrafted, that is an extreme stretch that not even FTL can travel by the time training camp starts.

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3 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Our best contributing UDFA from last season was Steven Sims. It took him half the season to get any attention or have any real effect on the team. The person he beat out for the job was literally 1 pick away from being a UDFA himself and remains a running joke about how we relied on an underdog to fill the role of a productive player. (Seriously, who really thought that Trey Quinn could replace Jamison Crowder? Really.)

 

The chances of some random UDFA suddenly coming along and turning into a "weapon" are nearly impossible. A plug and play RB? Yeah, sure. A UDFA whose only relevance is his Hall of Fame father? No way Jerry Rice Jr. can do that overnight. Wait, wrong UDFA. No way Thaddeus Moss can do that overnight.

But Steven Sims was pretty good at the end of the year.  And is anybody saying it could happen over-night?  An UDFA has about as much chance of developing into a contributing starter as any player picked 5th round or later.  The reason 5th - 7th rounders end up on rosters is teams spent draft capital to get them.

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Posted (edited)

Even if he’s not the “weapon” you or they desire, he’s likely the last tight end addition we make this year given the dearth of available ones in free agency and difficulty in working a trade.

Edited by sportsnut

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17 minutes ago, SkinsFanRob said:


how can you make that statement? Like no UDFA has ever contributed. 

 

He's not a weapon as of now. Is that a better wording? it is possible for him to develop. Yes. Is it likely? No. You certainly can't count on it at this point, otherwise every rookie is a "weapon" until proven otherwise. 

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

☹️ Such a shame. Great player.Hope he finds his way to health, remember how the Redskins have supported him and be back playing in Burgundy and Gold again

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30 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

The chances of some random UDFA suddenly coming along and turning into a "weapon" are nearly impossible. A plug and play RB? Yeah, sure. A UDFA whose only relevance is his Hall of Fame father? No way Jerry Rice Jr. can do that overnight. Wait, wrong UDFA. No way Thaddeus Moss can do that overnight.

 

If he makes plays in the preseason and shows the coaches that he's committed to be being a good player at his position,  then he can develop into reliable player and hopefully a starter.  There's no such thing as an overnight success.  It's always a process.  

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Makes perfect sense if you have character concerns about him being as the last regime was the one to bring him in, under questionable circumstances.  This way you can either A. Give him a real deal if you feel comfortable in a year, because you have plenty of cap space, B. Move on if he has injury issues, or C. Pick up a comp pick if he plays well but still has issues and you just dont want that in your team.  Picking up the 5th year option means you have to keep him 2 years to get the comp pick, and the only scenario it helps you is to get you 1 year of cheaper play in the case you want to keep him long term.

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9 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Makes perfect sense if you have character concerns about him being as the last regime was the one to bring him in, under questionable circumstances.  This way you can either A. Give him a real deal if you feel comfortable in a year, because you have plenty of cap space, B. Move on if he has injury issues, or C. Pick up a comp pick if he plays well but still has issues and you just dont want that in your team.  Picking up the 5th year option means you have to keep him 2 years to get the comp pick, and the only scenario it helps you is to get you 1 year of cheaper play in the case you want to keep him long term.

 

Given the fact that the $ becomes guaranteed in the event of injury, this was a no-brainer decision, IMO.

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43 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

☹️ Such a shame. Great player.Hope he finds his way to health, remember how the Redskins have supported him and be back playing in Burgundy and Gold again


He does still have the fourth year to play this season if he’s healthy/

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@09

 

McLaurin is clearly a weapon, any NFL team would agree.

 

Gibson is the next closest we now have to being that type of threat, if we use his skill-set well and he develops. He's a rookie but clearly drafted relatively high BECAUSE he's seen as being a weapon, so it's fair to include him on this list given what we invested in getting him into the fold.

 

That's about it as far as proven threats. Steven Sims may grow to be one, he's explosive and showed some stuff despite being an UDFA. But most teams have guys like that who flash, and I think people are putting too much hope and projection into their evaluations of what they think he could be. I like him but some think he's a budding star. That feels a bit much despite some of the great plays he made (including in the redzone) down the stretch.

 

Harmon we can hope is replacement level. We'd be lucky if he is, the ceiling doesn't seem great but he ideally would be a reliable WR4. AGG could be good, we'll see. We want him to grow into a possession (and more!) threat across from McLaurin obviously. Neither of these guys are what I'd call "weapons" right now. 

 

Guice and Love, either or both could be good if they stay healthy and show pre-injury explosiveness. I wouldn't call them weapons but I think one could emerge and that was the potential 3rd impact player I alluded to, though the injuries cloud the matter and impactfulness at RB is generally overrated (or at least misunderstood) anyways. I think the vast majority of NFL teams are more than happy with what they've got working at the RB position and wouldn't consider ours to be "weapons" that they covet.

 

AP (and I'll get hate for this) is good but no longer a weapon. No one fears a 2 down banger anymore no matter how legendary his career has been. The best offenses can replace or approximate that production easily. What makes him good HERE is that he has been good enough to overcome meh OL play and grind out yards anyways, he just gets it done despite poor blocking and even poorer playcalling and play selection within a poorly constructed scheme. That has had value for us but isn't scary at all to anyone else. 

 

Latimer, Cam Sims, and Moss are lol options. The "other Sims" is nothing (don't even remember if you listed him but he's on the roster so I addressed him). Latimer is a bust who is simply here to give young guys competition against someone who's been in the league for a bit, they didn't want a bunch of rookie receivers just competing against each other in a weird truncated offseason. Moss has potential and I admit to having high-ish hopes that he can fill an important role here long term as a secondary TE who can block once we get a better primary option in here. But he's not a "weapon" and it's desperation to hope he could be, if anyone's doing that. 

 

Logan Thomas despite his poor production history at his age is actually the best wildcard to join this list of potential weapons imo. It would take a late career emergence like Darren Waller (who was dealing with substance abuse problems and not just a position switch, and coming from a position closer to TE than Thomas did) but he's got the physical attributes and has flashed. It's possible all he needs is the opportunity on a team SO weak in his position group that they're forced to give him the reps and see if he grows and applies what he's learned over the years. It's low probability but he's got one thing working in his favor besides his athleticism--this coaching staff wanted him and went out of their way to bring him in. That counts for something and we have very little competition for him to beat out to seize those snaps. It's a position where these anomalous late career breakouts have happened before when the situation lines up with a guy that needs an opportunity (not just Waller in recent memory but Gary Barnidge too).

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2 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

He's not a weapon as of now. Is that a better wording? it is possible for him to develop. Yes. Is it likely? No. You certainly can't count on it at this point, otherwise every rookie is a "weapon" until proven otherwise. 

 

that's the way it should be.  I'm sick of the attitude around here, which most of the time is closer to expecting someone who was a weapon to no longer be

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19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

McLaurin is clearly a weapon, any NFL team would agree.
 

 

Agree.  Would start for 30 or 31 teams.  A very big 1.

 

19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Gibson is the next closest we now have to being that type of threat, if we use his skill-set well and he develops. He's a rookie but clearly drafted relatively high BECAUSE he's seen as being a weapon, so it's fair to include him on this list given what we invested in getting him into the fold.

 

Agree again.  2.

 

19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

That's about it as far as proven threats. Steven Sims may grow to be one, he's explosive and showed some stuff despite being an UDFA. 

 

 Agree again.  But has skill set to develop into.   

 

19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Harmon we can hope is replacement level. We'd be lucky if he is, the ceiling doesn't seem great but he ideally would be a reliable WR4. AGG could be good, we'll see. We want him to grow into a possession (and more!) threat across from McLaurin obviously. Neither of these guys are what I'd call "weapons" right now. 

 

Agree again.  Just happy that this option has 2 young players with great hands.   Drops have killed this team.  Both will have to be accounted for defensively.  

  

19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Guice and Love, either or both could be good if they stay healthy and show pre-injury explosiveness. I wouldn't call them weapons but I think one could emerge and that was the potential 3rd impact player I alluded to, though the injuries cloud the matter and impactfulness at RB is generally overrated (or at least misunderstood) anyways. I think the vast majority of NFL teams are more than happy with what they've got working at the RB position and wouldn't consider ours to be "weapons" that they covet.

 

With health luck ... think these 2 would be coveted weapons.   But the whole "availability is the best ability" thing ... 

 

19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

AP (and I'll get hate for this) is good but no longer a weapon. No one fears a 2 down banger anymore no matter how legendary his career has been. The best offenses can replace or approximate that production easily. What makes him good HERE is that he has been good enough to overcome meh OL play and grind out yards anyways, he just gets it done despite poor blocking and even poorer playcalling and play selection within a poorly constructed scheme. That has had value for us but isn't scary at all to anyone else. 

 

I highly value positive production too.  Still has to be accounted for defensively.    

 

19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Moss has potential and I admit to having high-ish hopes that he can fill an important role here long term as a secondary TE who can block once we get a better primary option in here. But he's not a "weapon" and it's desperation to hope he could be, if anyone's doing that. 

 

So sick of Sprinkle dropping easy passes.    Moss brings a seemingly high football IQ ... has great hands ... and gives maximum effort.   Not currently a weapon per se ... and maybe never ... but solid potential.   Would be thrilled with a Donnie Warren/Doc Walker type career.  They don't all have to be superstars.

 

19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Logan Thomas despite his poor production history at his age is actually the best wildcard to join this list of potential weapons imo. 

 

Admittedly I am very high ... almost "homerish" ... on Thomas.    But obviously wait and see.

 

 

 

Anyhow ... of the 5 skilled starters ... I agree with your analysis ... 2-3 could be classified as "weapons".   With the other 2-3 positions having great hands ... blocking effort ... rushing production ... replacement level minimums.  Not hurting the team.

 

Agree again about the QB ... need mistake-free production/distribution from the position.  Get that ... top 16 offense.  

 

Beyond this season ... with health luck ... could see developed into 4 coveted weapons.

 

:pint:

 

 

 

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My ‘weapons’ would be:

 

1) McLaurin - no explanation needed.

2) Sims - with an * because although he showed really well at the end of the year, he needs to show more.

3) Guice - with an * because of health.  Power, vision, speed, burst and decent enough hands to excel in the run and pass game.  
4) Gibson - with an * because he hasn’t proven anything in the NFL.

5) Love - with 2 *s because 1) health, and 2) he hasn’t proven himself in the pros.  Also don’t really know about his hands.  

 

Gandy-Golden, Thomas and McKissic have potential, as does our UDFA receiver.  The rest?  They could all be solid players for us, but weapons?  Not so much, IMO.  I do like Harmon a lot more than most though it seems.  Ditto, to a lesser extent, Cam Sims.  

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I’d agree people are overvaluing Steven Sims. He still raw and has a long way to go in a variety of areas. Hands, route running, blocking. I like the guy and hope he continues to blossom though. 

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6 hours ago, 09 said:

 

 

Please define "the few".   

 

1.  Peterson

2.  Guice

3.  Gibson

4.  McKissick

5.  Love

6.  Barber

7.  McLaurin

8.  Harmon

9.  Gandy-Golden

10.  Lattimer

11.  S. Sims

12.   L. Thomas

13.   Moss

 

 

Quite a generous list. 

 

I would really only call McLaurin a weapon on that list. 

 

Guice and Love have barely played, but certainly have the potential. 

 

I'm really excited about Thomas and the Antonios, but again - just potential. 

 

Peterson is solid, but not the weapon he used to be. I can't call Barber, Latimer or McKissic weapons with a straight face. 

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On 4/28/2020 at 10:20 PM, turtle said:

 

 

Sad to see. I liked Breeland. Most likely won't be seeing him back in DC any time soon... 

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the Redskins have about four or five roster spots left and how should we fill them.  We have the cap money to go for a vet LT, CB and TE.  I'd like to get another QB just because of what happened with Woodrun last year

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21 hours ago, 09 said:

 

 

Please define "the few".   

 

1.  Peterson

2.  Guice

3.  Gibson

4.  McKissick

5.  Love

6.  Barber

7.  McLaurin

8.  Harmon

9.  Gandy-Golden

10.  Lattimer

11.  S. Sims

12.   L. Thomas

13.   Moss

 

thats hysterical 🤣.  

 

Mclaurin is a pretty good WR with 1 year played. AP is not a weapon, he's a reliable back, but hardly a weapon. Loves never played football. Guise has 40 plays in 2 years. Lol. Hardly striking much fear. An undrafted slow TE? :ols: The 2 vets on the list, McKissic and Latimer have less carer stats than RunCMC had last year. That is a weapon.  

 

I'm pretty optimistic about our team, but half that list hasn't even played pro football. 

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32 minutes ago, carex said:

the Redskins have about four or five roster spots left and how should we fill them.  We have the cap money to go for a vet LT, CB and TE.  I'd like to get another QB just because of what happened with Woodrun last year


all of the above. I agree.

 

I do like the fact we sit #2 on the waiver wire. Keep a couple places free for openings that arise there perhaps.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

thats hysterical 🤣.  

 

 

Context.  

 

He said "the few weapons".   I provided the list to identify from.   Which he did.

 

But glad you got a chuckle.  🍻

Edited by 09
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5 hours ago, carex said:

the Redskins have about four or five roster spots left and how should we fill them.  We have the cap money to go for a vet LT, CB and TE.  I'd like to get another QB just because of what happened with Woodrun last year

We definitely need a backup QB right now and I wouldn't mind signing a undrafted CB. The rest should go to either go to LB, RT (do w have soeone behind Moses?) or guys that can play ST. 

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23 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

We definitely need a backup QB right now and I wouldn't mind signing a undrafted CB. The rest should go to either go to LB, RT (do w have soeone behind Moses?) or guys that can play ST. 

 

Charles and Lucas can both play RT

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7 hours ago, 09 said:

 

 

Context.  

 

He said "the few weapons".   I provided the list to identify from.   Which he did.

 

But glad you got a chuckle.  🍻

 

Ha! Totally misread your post. My apologies, buddy! 

 

But still, it's hard for me to call anybody on this team a weapon outside of maybe McLaurin. I'd still want another year of production out of him to solidify that description. The rest of our "weapons" are  only that on paper or in the past. 

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CT25 gets himself a one year deal with the Jags. Guess Jay put a word in for him.
 

Was surprised when I looked that he’d been here 7 seasons. Good pro.

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