Riggo-toni

The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Flowers plucked, Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, S Sean Davis, RB McKissic, TE Logan Thomas OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), TE Rodgers, RB P. Barber, LB Davis, OL Vujnovich, Darb

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1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Barnwell has spoken.

 

 

I kind of agree with him.  Allen is ok, he has some upside but there are other ways to find a guy like that without giving up the pick.

 

I suppose you have to weigh the whole "he knows the system" thing...which, to me, is overblown and overhyped.  Allen can be a good backup but..ugh, still don't like giving up the 5th.  And then if there's someone there in the 5th round that you want on draft day, you gotta swing a trade.  

As someone else smartly brought up, the fact that there won’t be OTAs, and camps in general may be delayed If not postponed. Players can’t get together and practice. The system can only be learned so much by reading up on the playbook so having someone in there to help teach Dwayne the offense is worth the pick alone.

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13 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

The whispered truth is they don't to an extent. The reality is very few teams can survive their starting QB going down.

 

There are not 32 quality starting QBs to go around so what do you think that means for the backups? 

 

That means unless you have a great team you are screwed if your starter goes down anyway so Bortles or this guy won't make a difference.  So they should have saved the pick.

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10 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

So the Panthers got a higher price for Allen than they will for their starting QB who's a former league MVP? Crazy world. 

$

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5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I can name a lot of players we drafted as well that late they didn’t pan out. Chances are guys that late don’t. 

 

Some here (me among them) who have critiqued the move, I noticed are frequent posters on the draft thread.  So for us, our opinions are somewhat predicated on what we think of the 2nd pick in the 5th round.   We are excited about the prospects there.  We could be wrong.  But heck we invested plenty of time and energy in having that opinion.  Not saying people who support the move aren't deep into this draft but this specific draft is guiding the criticism for some of us. 

 

The last two 5th round picks were Tim Settle and Cole Holcomb.  And that was the middle of the 5th round versus the top of the 5th round like this year.  I just don't buy this year of all years the 5th is likely to be a throwaway pick.   I think the 5th round is juicier this year than the prior two years where we landed good players. 

 

If others want to believe it's fine and great or turn it into a theoretical conversation about 5th round picks.   That's cool. 

 

This point isn't directed at you but I don't get the reaction from some when people don't all embrace each move.  I've embraced just about everything they've done.  Who cares if I or whomever here doesn't like it.  We are entitled to have our own takes.  😀   

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Posted (edited)

I feeI this gives the staff a young QB they obviously like and they can continue to develop.The new regime is not married to DH and if he bombs his opportunity they have young guy they like in the building now.

 

The fifth rounder hurts but they landed someone the HC and OC believe in and seen grow at the most important position in the league. Lets remember he had Carolina at 5-1 last year at one point.This guy is a solid backup QB with the potential to keep improving.

Edited by Ghedrick

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10 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Big difference between a 32 year old OT who wants $20M a year and has been injured often and a 26 year old backup QB on $600K a year. I do tend to agree with you on the price being high, but I struggle with equating giving up a 5th round pick and being fleeced. 

 

148 is a good pick in this draft.  Trading it for a guy who was as bad as Allen was last season is a significant overpay.  He has no real track record of NFL success, he can't fulfill the back up role well because of his turnover issues, and he doesn't really have any upside.  The one year left on his contract feels like a negative, not a positive in the equation.  And the cheap cost of the contract is fairly irrelevant this season, given we have so much cap space available right now.

 

The move feels panicky.

 

I also don't love it in the general context of the offseason they've had thus far.  The FO isn't really doing anything to acquire weapons to support Haskins.  They didn't find any long term solutions for the offensive line either, and Scherff playing on the tag feels like a pretty big failure given the amount of cap space the team has.  It feels like there is a real lack of commitment to Haskins and a lack of a plan to rapidly improve the offense around him.  That is decidedly not how you develop a young QB.  If the kid succeeds, it will be in spite of his situation rather than because of it.

 

From every angle I consider the move, I end up at the same conclusion that it was a really bad trade.

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20 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Well, would you rather spend a 6th on a Kyle Allen that’s never played in the NFL so you don’t know what he’s capable of or would you use a 5th on one who’s at least shown he won’t be a complete failure If called upon?

If Kyle Allen is worth a 5th then Trent and Dunbar are both worth 2nds at worst!!!

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1 hour ago, wilco_holland said:

Kyle Allen is the competition we bring in?????? Questionable! 

Competition???? I think the message is clear that this is Haskins job (Well unless we do something stupid in the draft). There will be no competition which is probably a good move.  

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9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

As someone else smartly brought up, the fact that there won’t be OTAs, and camps in general may be delayed If not postponed. Players can’t get together and practice. The system can only be learned so much by reading up on the playbook so having someone in there to help teach Dwayne the offense is worth the pick alone.

 

Then what's the coaching staff supposed to do?  

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1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Is Kyle Allen better than any QB we could pick in the 5th round this year? 

Well that depends on how the draft flows. 

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Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

148 is a good pick in this draft.  Trading it for a guy who was as bad as Allen was last season is a significant overpay.  He has no real track record of NFL success, he can't fulfill the back up role well because of his turnover issues, and he doesn't really have any upside.  The one year left on his contract feels like a negative, not a positive in the equation.  And the cheap cost of the contract is fairly irrelevant this season, given we have so much cap space available right now.

 

The move feels panicky.

 

I also don't love it in the general context of the offseason they've had thus far.  The FO isn't really doing anything to acquire weapons to support Haskins.  They didn't find any long term solutions for the offensive line either, and Scherff playing on the tag feels like a pretty big failure given the amount of cap space the team has.  It feels like there is a real lack of commitment to Haskins and a lack of a plan to rapidly improve the offense around him.  That is decidedly not how you develop a young QB.  If the kid succeeds, it will be in spite of his situation rather than because of it.

 

From every angle I consider the move, I end up at the same conclusion that it was a really bad trade.

Try this angle if you havent already;

- This shows the Skins are committed to Dwayne and this will help his confidence.

- Allen threw for over 3000 yards as a backup rookie with more TD passes than picks. That is not too shabby and you have to think he will improve upon that.

- Knows the offense and will be able to help DH understand it.

- Young guy who is already in the middle of being groomed.

- Must be a good dude which is critical for backup QB as opposed to a whiner.

   I'm trusting in RR and this new staff until they show me I can't.

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3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


agree, they brought him back to secure his rights. Is a good fit here for Turner and Rivera. Worth a late day three pick.


wow that happened fast :headbang:

 

slightly higher pick that expected but a very solid move.

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4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Just heard PJ Walker signed with Panthers. If that's true my gut is  to look for Kyle Allen rumors to the Redskins as the QB backup/push for Haskins

Guess you was right huh lol.

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2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I also don't love it in the general context of the offseason they've had thus far.  The FO isn't really doing anything to acquire weapons to support Haskins.  They didn't find any long term solutions for the offensive line either, and Scherff playing on the tag feels like a pretty big failure given the amount of cap space the team has.  It feels like there is a real lack of commitment to Haskins and a lack of a plan to rapidly improve the offense around him.  That is decidedly not how you develop a young QB.  If the kid succeeds, it will be in spite of his situation rather than because of it.

 

From every angle I consider the move, I end up at the same conclusion that it was a really bad trade.

 

Agree.  I'd add also, not every pick in each round is equal.  The 2nd pick of the 5th round is a real nice one.   

 

In some of the mock simulations I've done, I've gotten guys like Tyler Johnson, Duvernay, Van Jefferson among others that late.  Also vintage territory I think for that next tier of TEs:  Hopkins, Bryant, etc.    When guys like Jeremiah among others say this is the deepest WR group he's even seen -- I think he's 100% on the money.

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I wasn't crazy about a 5th for him but like the move.  Gives Haskins some competition without being too threatening like Cam or some other more vastly more experienced QB would.  Knows the system so can help in that department and comparing records would seem to be good for competition between the two with Allen having a little better winning percentage last year (5-7 vs 2-5) than Haskins.  Seems like a good case for each of them pushing each other to be better without the bar being beyond them (like a Cam signing probably would have been).

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6 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Then what's the coaching staff supposed to do?  

There’s gonna be 110 or so players on the roster when the offseason officially starts. They have a million things to worry about including who stays and who goes etc. having another player specifically at a position where we currently have a rookie (more or less) trying To get used to the Speed of the nfl is vital.

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Firing Rivera at this point should be on the table after this season. He is so incompetent. No sane franchise thinks this free agent period is acceptable.

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Cheap backup too, FYI. Maybe he'll be extended but I don't think he's gonna cost anything at all. Per OvertheCap his number in 2020 is $675,000.


That's really cheap for a QB2 in this environment. I was thinking we'd have to throw $5-6m a year at a true backup. Could free up money elsewhere SHOULD we choose to spend it (or roll it over)

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Just now, PartyPosse said:

There’s gonna be 110 or so players on the roster when the offseason officially starts. They have a million things to worry about including who stays and who goes etc. having another player specifically at a position where we currently have a rookie (more or less) trying To get used to the Speed of the nfl is vital.

 

You're right, there's gonna be 110 on the roster.  None more important than Dwayne Haskins.  They have a million things to worry about, highest of all is making sure that he gets what he needs to be successful.  I think he'll get plenty of coaching.  

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1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

Firing Rivera at this point should be on the table after this season. He is so incompetent. No sane franchise thinks this free agent period is acceptable.

 

Totes Magotes bro

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2 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Firing Rivera at this point should be on the table after this season. He is so incompetent. No sane franchise thinks this free agent period is acceptable.

 

What?  Dude, they haven't played the games yet.  Calm down.

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