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The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Flowers plucked, Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, S Sean Davis, RB McKissic, TE Logan Thomas OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), TE Rodgers, RB P. Barber, LB Davis, OL Vujnovich, Darb


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46 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Trautman is a stud. I gotta continue my “scouting” and get a good read on the prospects in each group and get a kind of overall ranking in mind before I can really say how I feel about him as BPA at 66. He could be. I don’t think so... but he could be. I got a ways to go though :ols:

 

I look forward to it.  But part of my point is how can we know if he is or isn't BPA at 66?  It has to play out.  😀

 

My take right now if past is prologue:

 

A.  There is a decent chance that the dude at 66 will be a surprise fall.  Some guy we originally expected to be there in the late first or early 2nd, etc.

 

B.  Playing off the above point, the decision is take the dude whomever that is or trade down.  If its a big name, they might be able to get a 3rd-4th-5th in exchange.

 

Depending on what player is there, I tend to agree with your point of trading down.  The 3rd-4th rounds look stacked.  So I'd love to add another 4th.

 

My gut right now is the player in the third is unlikely going to be a receiver unless its a real surprise fall for a WR (which is certainly possible) because I think the WR pool is deep enough to spill into the 4th round which isn't the case for some other positions.

 

As for the TE's, I think the best three are:  Trautman, Kmet, Claypool (if he can be converted) the next run have a lot of players close in ability but IMO are a peg below those 3  (Albert O, Harrison Bryant, Hunter Bryant, Bryce Hopkins maybe, Degaura )  The best blocker in that group IMO is Trautman.   I go back and forth on Albert Okuwegbunam, good athlete for sure, nice size, decent albeit not great of a blocker. He'd probably be my favorite after the first 3.  I like some of the others as pass catchers but don't love them as blockers. 

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12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'd quibble here. Because the coaches are all new, the Redskins don't know exactly what they have. They know what they've studied on film, but I suspect there is an element to practicing, running plays, and seeing their WRs live and respond to coaching that factors in.

 

The coaches have a very good idea because they've probably done their homework, but they don't know. Just like a coach who recruits a free agent doesn't know how that free agent will perform in their system and why so many free agents don't live up to expectations.

 

Maybe but I take Keim's point as saying to that dude on twitter i know as a fan you don't think they need another receiver but they who have a deeper knowledge of what they got believe they do.

 

Cooley among others has been shouting multiple times this off season they need another receiver.  I get the point.  but the draft is so special at that spot. 

 

I agree too they need another receiver but my point among others here is this draft is so stacked with them.  But I get the counter point from Keim among others is they want a veteran WR so every WR isn't young.      I am ok with that, I just wouldn't overspend for one aside from Cooper. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I look forward to it.  But part of my point is how can we know if he is or isn't BPA at 66?  It has to play out.  😀

 

My take right now if past is prologue:

 

A.  There is a decent chance that the dude at 66 will be a surprise fall.  Some guy we originally expected to be there in the late first or early 2nd, etc.

 

B.  Playing off the above point, the decision is take the dude whomever that is or trade down.  If its a big name, they might be able to get a 3rd-4th-5th in exchange.

 

Depending on what player is there, I tend to agree with your point of trading down.  The 3rd-4th rounds look stacked.  So I'd love to add another 4th.

 

My gut right now is the player in the third is unlikely going to be a receiver unless its a real surprise fall for a WR (which is certainly possible) because I think the WR pool is deep enough to spill into the 4th round which isn't the case for some other positions.

 

As for the TE's, I think the best three are:  Trautman, Kmet, Claypool (if he can be converted) the next run have a lot of players close in ability but IMO are a peg below those 3  (Albert O, Harrison Bryant, Hunter Bryant, Bryce Hopkins maybe, Degaura )  The best blocker in that group IMO is Trautman.   I go back and forth on Albert Okuwegbunam, good athlete for sure, nice size, decent albeit not great of a blocker. He'd probably be my favorite after the first 3.  I like some of the others as pass catchers but don't love them as blockers. 


If he’s top 50ish, there’s a good chance he’s close to BPA at 66. And if he’s close, unless a top 20 guy falls, it’s likely close enough with need weight to be the BPA.

 

I have a system.

 

Its not a good system. But it’s a system :ols:

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Just saw a report that the Skins are clear odds on faves to sign Cam Newton once he is released by Carolina. If this happens it's gonna bring a huge dimension to this team one way or another (positive or negative?). We will have our trust in RR tested if this goes through. I believe RR loves him some Cam and would have a tough time not pulling the trigger.

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4 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think people think this team is going to be a contender right away. And it could be. But the aim is overall improvement. Not overnight contendership.


Just want Alex Smith type season where games matter in December. Let’s start there. 
 

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3 hours ago, dyst said:

I looked ahead after the dream team off-season when we signed aging players like Bruce Smith and Mark Carrier. 
 

I looked ahead after the Spurrier and Zorn shenanigans. I looked ahead after the ineptitude of our offense with Gibbs 2.0 and Brunell throwing ducks 2-3 yards per play.

 

I looked ahead after Vinny, Haynesworth, Shanahan, the three receiver draft, the RG3 trade and fiasco afterwards with the “did the doctor tell him to go back in”

 

I looked ahead at the price gouging, the suing of the fans, the blacklisting of the media outlets.

 

I looked ahead during the Bruce Allen hell years, the Cousins contract circus while our GM couldn’t get his name right.

 

I looked ahead at our training and medical staff failures. I looked ahead at our screwup when spelling Londons name correctly. I looked ahead at the handling of the Trent situation and it costing us picks.

 

I looked ahead at us drafting a QB, when it was highly likely the coaching and leadership was about to change. Now the new guy is stuck with a QB who only the owner wanted.

 

I am not miserable I promise 😂 

Keep looking. Do not fret. It is just over the horizon young whipper snapper....feel the energy seeping into your fan blood

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Edited by joeken24
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1) We need to stop overrating Kelvin Harmon. Nothing should be handed to him. He’s decent, but he’s not the route runner Sims and McLauren have proven to be. Separation isn’t there. We learned with Doctson that a jump ball receiver is less valuable because of that. This is why we went after Cooper. He is an incredible route runner, just like McLauren. clearly this is valued by our staff.

 

2) we aren’t signing Cam Newton. We’ll sign a QB after the draft, or draft one in late rounds. 
 

3) WR might be a pickup after the draft too, once the surplus of good ones get drafted, prices will come down on the average players still out there

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3 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Daryl Williams is still out there. I assume he’s someone we target once a Trent trade takes place.

 

bucs

chargers

jets

browns

 

probably the 4 teams left who could go for Trent 

Add the Vikings. They will trade Harris for a lineman before the draft. So they are a possibility.

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28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe but I take Keim's point as saying to that dude on twitter i know as a fan you don't think they need another receiver but they who have a deeper knowledge of what they got believe they do.

 

Cooley among others has been shouting multiple times this off season they need another receiver.  I get the point.  but the draft is so special at that spot. 

 

I agree too they need another receiver but my point among others here is this draft is so stacked with them.  But I get the counter point from Keim among others is they want a veteran WR so every WR isn't young.      I am ok with that, I just wouldn't overspend for one aside from Cooper. 

 

 

 

Keim knows a lot more than he reveals. I respect that, and so too will the new regime as they come to realize that he's someone they can trust. Unlike a lot of the other infotainment writers/reporters on the Redskins beat. Those dudes read and listen very carefully to Keim, hoping they can reach in that holster and fire off a quick tweet about what "sources" tell them. They don't do deep homework.

 

Yes, we need a vet wideout. We went big for Cooper and didn't get him, but the FO didn't panic and start flashing big bucks to the remaining FA wideouts. Shows they have a plan and are sticking to it. Like Keim has been saying, they know the team's holes can't be filled in a single offseason.

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Depending on how you look at it. The Redskins could have been playing the cap money game with Dallas. I suppose that is an aspect of the game people don't consider. Cap strapped teams have a much tougher time staying competitive. I love that the cowgirls are overspending on 50/50. I love they are having issues paying their QB. I love the fact that he's just above garbage IMO. I love how they cannot afford the existing players. And I love the fact that they have sucked even after spending boat loads of money on players. At least the Redskins have been frugal. **** 'em.

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52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I look forward to it.  But part of my point is how can we know if he is or isn't BPA at 66?  


If you have him 67th overall. 

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6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's nice to have a top level creator though.  The extra value of a guy like Gordon is that, if you can get him blocked to the edge either on a run or throw, such that he's now in one on ones with a corner or safety, then he's going to score.  It covers up for a lot of weaker spots in the unit.

 

The other good thing about backs is they're cheap, even when they're dominant players.  Their market is so depressed that you can get a guy who is as good or better a weapon than Amari Cooper for like half the cap amount.  And you can get a high end creator for a second round pick.  But it does get dicey with them in their second contract in terms of declining creativity.  That decline doesn't happen for all of the great backs, but it does for a lot of them.

 

The system/scheme has to be willing to utilize a workhorse at the position though.  The Jay Grudens of the world will never get value out of a great back, but a Scott Turner or Sean Payton or Greg Roman might.


Absolutely, better players offer more to your roster, but better design & personnel people can get/find more value out of a slightly lesser back than you can get out of slightly lesser at most other positions. I need the gap between backs to be more significant to pay up for option A over option B at RB; Right now most of the added value is in receiving, it used to be in blocking, which is what made Portis one of our more undervalued/under appreciated commodities in the last 2 decades. 

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Agree! I have a hard time seeing Kmet and Trautman there at 66. If they don't bring in a starting TE before the draft these are the only two that IMO can fill the spot. I don't like the idea of reaching but it would be forced due to roster need. The later rounders are not complete TE's. So many cannot block, lack speed or have inconsistent hands.

 

Boy are you correct, still lack cover guys and guys that can get open. And would add the OL issues need to find some resolution. It is a shame they didn't either extend Fowler or Scherff or settle the TW crap. Or for that matter to have been able to sign Olsen to settle TE or Cooper at WR even though it was for silly $$

 

I really liked the McKissic signing to resolve RB.They Def need to bring in at least one WR with some jets

 

 


Speaking of Settle on the OL, what a guard that guy would be. 

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

The biggest issue Rivera has to resolve is what QB he want to ride with.

 

He has two very strong options available to him in Newton or Tua, balanced with gauging the true worth of his incumbent in Haskins.

 

I’d bring Newton in. However, we probably pass over and next thing he’s winning with the Pats.

 

 


Passing on Cam & Tua would have to do a lot for DH’s confidence.

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The Cowboys haven't really been overspending.  Their problem is too many good players on their team hitting the market at the same time.

 

I'd love to goof on them but their version of misery would be the glory years for Dan's run.  I hope and believe Rivera-Kyle turn it around.  Supposedly the Redskins offer to Cooper didn't make the Cowboys budge on inch on their own offer.  So I'd gather they got the last laugh on that one -- especially with the Redskins supposedly bidding 23 million a year according to Keim. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-cowboys-have-spent-the-least-on-payroll-since-2016-why-cash-trumps-cap-new-cba-and-more/

NFL fans get preconditioned to obsess over the salary cap. This time of year in particular, with free agency about to begin and players being cut around the league because of their cap figures, so much of the pro football conversation gets dominated by how much cap space teams have, or lack of it.

Of course, with a soft cap, the dirty little secret is, and always has been, that cash trumps cap and there are myriad ways to convert salaries and create space and continue to have a means to spend. Even teams seemingly caught in a bind routinely find ways to extend players or apply the franchise tag to players despite those confines ... as long as ownership is willing to foot the bill and keep writing checks.

The discourse of the cap, most often, excludes the true numbers that matter, and the metric that tells the story about which funds were actually poured into the product in pursuit of victories. Despite this being far and away the greatest revenue-generating sport in this country, and despite the owners sharing a revenue model in which massive cash subsidies arrive every year from the television contracts alone, we generally don't speak about payroll in the NFL the way we do in other sports. It's all cap, cap, cap.

We think of huge-pocketed guys like Jerry Jones, whose big personalities have become woven into the very fabric of the game, as massive spenders doing whatever it takes to win, even if it means bidding against himself. We focus on the snapshot of two desperate teams over-spending on some mediocre free agent and lose sight of how much money so many teams are bringing in, and forget which owners aren't exactly threatening to spend up to the cap in any given year, let alone over it.

So, take a minute and hazard a guess as to which owners you believe have spent the least on actual payroll the past four seasons. Forget about the cap and funny money and focus on base salaries and signing bonuses and roster bonuses and make a list of who you figure are the six lowest-spending teams in the NFL from 2016-19.

OK, are you ready? Here are the actual bottom spenders, culled from NFLPA salary numbers, over that span (rounded to the nearest thousand).

Cowboys: $634,379,000
Texans: $646,479,000
Bills: $648,442,000
Colts: $654,999,000
Chargers: $658,299,000
Ravens: $678,220,000
Browns: $687,708,000

That is your bottom 20 percent in spending in the league in that time frame.  The average NFL team spent $703 million on payroll in that span, and the top five spending teams in the league during that span – the Jaguars, Eagles, Falcons, Bears, and Packers – all spent at least $750M in salary since 2016. Of course, spending the most didn't prove worth it for any of those teams save Philadelphia – but nevertheless, I'd presume seeing Jerah's World at the bottom of this list would surprise some people (and seeing the Ravens that low as well probably would too, since their annual woes with the salary cap have become a narrative).

So what's the moral of this story?

Cowboys fans, don't believe the hype about trouble keeping Dak Prescott and Amari Cooper and Byron Jones and anyone else. It's beyond time for the Cowboys to be writing checks left and right. The poster boys for marketing and sales revenue spent $134M less than the tiny-market Jaguars over the past four years. Let the shopping begin in The Big D!

 

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20 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Passing on Cam & Tua would have to do a lot for DH’s confidence.


it also amps up the pressure to succeed. On both Haskins and Rivera.

4 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Vegas favoring us with Cam is interesting, they tend to have decent information.
 


seems a no brainier to me at this stage. I mean Rivera loves him. And Cam is only 30 turning 31 soon I believe.

 

3 year 70mil extension coming onto his current expiring deal. Not going to be popular that.

 

Alex Smith ends up being a post June 1st cut, assuming they are now possible with the new CBA.

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28 minutes ago, volsmet said:


Absolutely, better players offer more to your roster, but better design & personnel people can get/find more value out of a slightly lesser back than you can get out of slightly lesser at most other positions. I need the gap between backs to be more significant to pay up for option A over option B at RB; Right now most of the added value is in receiving, it used to be in blocking, which is what made Portis one of our more undervalued/under appreciated commodities in the last 2 decades. 


Speaking of Settle on the OL, what a guard that guy would be. 


Passing on Cam & Tua would have to do a lot for DH’s confidence.

Agreed, and it would show the confidence the staff has in him as well....

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Desir got released, had an off year last season and was hurt.  Before that, he was decent.  If they got him at a deal, maybe?

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-colts-1-75m-investment-in-pierre-desir-is-paying-off-big-time

Epitomizing his consistency, Desir hasn’t allowed more than three first-down receptions or 85-plus yards in any game this season. He’s also allowed just two touchdowns on the year and has forced at least one incompletion in each of the Colts’ last five games. He’s also allowed catches of 15-plus yards on just 14.1% of his targets so far this season, ranking 26th among the 98 cornerbacks with 40-plus targets.

Desir has also played above expectation defending underneath routes. He’s allowed just 4.86 yards per target on passes of nine or fewer air yards thrown into his coverage, ranking 15th among the 100 cornerbacks with 20 or more targets of such depths on the year. He limits yards after the catch opportunities with secure tackling and close coverage with the best of them in the NFL.

As evidenced by his 90.7 run-defense grade, Desir is also an impact player where many cornerbacks fall way short of expectations. He’s missed zero tackles, recorded seven run stops and three tackles for no gain or loss across his 334 run-defense snaps this season.

Most recently, Desir recorded one tackle in the run game, and limited Houston Texans star wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins to two receptions for 16 yards and two first downs from five targets in the Colts’ Wild Card matchup with Hopkins & Co., an impressive feat by all measures. He also recorded a pass breakup on one of the five targets in his and Hopkins’ direction.

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Gods I would be pissed if Cam is brought in. He had 1 edge coming out: mobility and size. Took a beating, which largely consisted of late dirty hits and helmet blows. He never had great accuracy, which is why guys like Benjamin, Funchess, Smith, and Olsen had success with him, but guys like Moore did not. Mclaurin and Sims are in the DJ Moore spectrum of small technician wrs with rac ability, and elite speed, and we don’t even have a TE. This is besides the point of destroying what progress we might have with Dwayne. 

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