The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[nonniey]

3 hours ago, carex said:

 

I don't think Ionaddis is beating out Allen

Over the past 3 years Ionaddis has been better than Allen (and Dayne for 2), so how did you come to that conclusion?

[Skin'emAlive]

I fully trust Kyle and Ron not to destroy what goodwill they had before the season even starts. Trade Trent for picks or assets, and develop Dwayne. This isn’t hard. 
 

Cam is not coming here. 

[clskinsfan]

Just now, HoggLife said:

Would you guys trade Haskins and next years 2nd rounder for Cam and extension of 4 years 70 miliion?

It would depend on his medical. Cam needs his mobility. Without it he isnt Cam.

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Having so much dead money tied up in Trent Williams and Alex Smith is a huge barrier.  Being unable to sign decent FAs  in a critical stage of his development is a huge barrier.  Bad organizations don't make franchise QBs, and we've operated as a bad organization for a long time.  For Haskins to have a real chance to get going, the whole FO and coaching staff is going to have to be way better than they were under the old regime.

 

No dead money on Trent from what I understand unless he comes back and refuses to play but I think even then I believe they can recoup most of it.  Alex Smith's contract is an albatross because of all the guaranteed money in it.

 

I agree with your bad organization point.  Though I have a mixed opinion on it relating to Haskins.  If I believe really every narrative about how the Haskins pick went down both Jay and Kyle (including some other scouts in the building) weren't into picking Haskins at 15.  But Dan loved him and I get the impression Doug too based on Louis Riddick hinting at such.   So it created a divide in the building from the outset.  You get then bitter grapes for different reasons by both sides of it.   The process has to be much smoother than that.   

 

But agree there always seems to be a weird ride for all our young QBs:

 

Campbell -- we kept changing coordinators and systems under him.    Zorn trying to change his delivery, etc

 

RG3:  the battles over the system, the injury and who was to blame, Dan versus Shanny, all the weird drama

 

Kirk:  Was he wanted by Dan, was he not, the Shanny politics creeping into it, is he just good or is he great, does he want to be there and if not why

 

Haskins:  The Dan versus the FO leading up to the pick, all the leaks about him

 

They've all had wild and weird rides.  And I recall all the debates well.   I was one of the few people here who liked BOTH RG3 and Kirk, though it took me longer to come around on Kirk.   My ride on Haskins thus far is most similar to early Kirk, up and down, down or up, depending on the week.  I lean optimistic on him.  And yeah i do share your concerns about his development in this culture.  If I sat back and thought about every young QB's we've had.  They've all had relative weird rides and much more so than other teams.

 

Heck even Ramsey.  We had the stories about how the FO-Dan insisted Spurrier play him over the UF Qbs.  Him getting beaten behind that weak O line where he got shell shocked.   Then we got Gibbs coming and trading for Brunell.  Him being yanked in and out of the lineup.   

[Skin'emAlive]

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

As a side note. This is the craziest off season I can remember ever. Big time players switching teams. If you told me 2 weeks ago that Brady, Rivers, Diggs, and Hopkins would all be going to different teams i would have said you were nuts. I am enjoying the chaos in all honesty.

Rivers was already released weeks ago, Diggs has been trying to leave Min for over a year, and Brady was also no longer under contract. It’s not that crazy. 
 

The Hopkins trade on the other hand was asinine. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

11 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

we're still a dumbass organization who has no idea how to develop a franchise QB.

 

Why do you reject our identity?

[cakmoney61]

I don't see Cam Newton wanting to come to a team that went 3-13 last year.  Not to mention how that sabotages the potential growth of Haskins if Rivera believes he has a potential good to franchise QB. 

[Anselmheifer]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

Trading for Cam Newton would be yet more evidence that we're still a dumbass organization who has no idea how to develop a franchise QB.

Agree. He’s clearly not the player he was AND will be expensive. 
 

We need to stick with Haskins or draft Tua, and I know you prefer. 
 

McQueen, what are your preferences for the rest of FA? I don’t love any of the remaining offensive options. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

You know what we meant.....

Yes but it’s not what you said.   

 

I’m just joshing with you.  I still call the Rams the St. Louis Rams.  

[carex]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No dead money on Trent from what I understand unless he comes back and refuses to play but I think even then I believe they can recoup most of it.  Alex Smith's contract is an albatross because of all the guaranteed money in it.

 

 

2 million actually

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

He was pretty good the last 2 weeks of the season. And what I liked is he consistently got better as the season progressed. We still dont know what we have in Haskins. But it is way too early to give up on him IMO.

 

Never once said I gave up on him.

 

He wasn't good. He had two good games against poor defenses that were absolutely encouraging. We are speaking on last season. Not his future ability.

[mhd24]

7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

He was pretty good the last 2 weeks of the season. And what I liked is he consistently got better as the season progressed. We still dont know what we have in Haskins. But it is way too early to give up on him IMO.

Against two of the worst pass defenses in the NFL.  His mechanics still look really suspect.  I was listening to the latest first draft pod and Mel and Todd (in general) were talking about how qbs rarely change their mechanics to a major extent.  Its muscle memory.  Haskins' footwork and accuracy are his major downfalls.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, carex said:

 

2 million actually

 

That's just about nothing in cap terms

[Conn]

5 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

Would you guys trade Haskins and next years 2nd rounder for Cam and extension of 4 years 70 miliion?

 

No, but I could see a trade of a 3rd (maybe next year) or something and keeping him on a shorter deal which allows him to prove his health. Normally this would never happen this cheaply but because it involves an extension, he'll have a say where he is willing to go in order for the Panthers to get better compensation than that. And if he looks around and doesn't like what he hears, contract extension wise, he might prefer a short term deal with a coach he knows to prove his worth, which nets the Panthers less in trade but lets both parties move on. 

 

Especially in this climate, where getting confirmation on his health prognosis is gonna be tough. There's nobody in the league who knows better than RR and his staff whether to feel comfortable enough with Cam's health. They may be the only ones with real pre-existing knowledge.

 

Do I think that's smart for us? Not necessarily. I'd be lying if I said a healthy Cam isn't exciting, obviously. 

[Skin'emAlive]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Never once said I gave up on him.

 

He wasn't good. He had two good games against poor defenses that were absolutely encouraging. We are speaking on last season. Not his future ability.

🤔 you sure about that?

[Skinsinparadise]

In theory, I agree but Cam isn't a backup type.  So this would bring drama. 

 

 

 

[Conn]

11 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

I can't wait for Brady to land with a team so the national sports media can finally get off him.

 

He's arguably the best QB of all time. They'll never get off him. His new destination will just give new talking points. The drama of the uncertainty is only the beginning...there's no other notable sports news really anywhere in the world other than the NFL lol. 

[clskinsfan]

7 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Rivers was already released weeks ago, Diggs has been trying to leave Min for over a year, and Brady was also no longer under contract. It’s not that crazy. 
 

The Hopkins trade on the other hand was asinine. 

Yeah. Because multiple first ballot Hall of Famers change teams all of the time.

[Skin'emAlive]

Cam had 1 major advantage: he was bigger than the guys trying to tackle him, and used his size to truck through 8 man boxes. A different version of Big Ben. But he took a lot of hits, mobility is no longer a reliable strength, And his accuracy has never been that great. Eventually A certain Baltimore qb will face the same problems. 

Just now, clskinsfan said:

Yeah. Because multiple first ballot Hall of Famers change teams all of the time.

When they are 40+? Yes. This is almost a guarantee in every professional sport.

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

🤔 you sure about that?

 

The most disrespectful thing you can do is not take someone at their word when you're discussing on a forum like this. Why bother talking to each other if we aren't presenting our opinions in good faith? If someone around here like KDawg tells you what he thinks and why, that's what he thinks man.

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

🤔 you sure about that?

100%. Read my posts on Haskins. Apparently most people don’t.

 

I think he stunk last season (for a majority, light turned on later). 
 

I think he showed some promise towards the end of the year. 
 

I don’t think he had a great work ethic, and I don’t love his mechanics.

 

I think he has put in some decent work this offseason. 
 

I think he still has mechanical issues.

 

I think Zampese can really help Haskins.

 

I think Haskins has prototype physical tools at QB. 
 

I think with proper support, Haskins can develop. 
 

I just don’t think he played well last year and I don’t like his mechanics.

 

I never once “gave up on him”.

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In theory, I agree but Cam isn't a backup type.  So this would bring drama. 

 

I so hope that Keim is wrong and RR doesn't do it.  Newton has been injured over the last couple years and is nothing like his former self.  We need invest in holes on this team.  I hope RR doesn't do it.  He would want a new contract extension.  IMO, Newton would set this team back and in the long run RR tenure here would be in danger.  JMO. 

[skinzplay]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In theory, I agree but Cam isn't a backup type.  So this would bring drama. 

 

Maybe Chicago would be a good destination for him?

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

The most disrespectful thing you can do is not take someone at their word when you're discussing on a forum like this. Why bother talking to each other if we aren't presenting our opinions in good faith? If someone around here like KDawg tells you what he thinks and why, that's what he thinks man.

 

Appreciate that. There's this odd thing here where if you aren't totally sold on Haskins, it makes you a hater and you want nothing to do with the guy. 

 

I bet he even missed my next post on how you don't abandon Haskins for Newton. 

 

It's a thing.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Yeah. Because multiple first ballot Hall of Famers change teams all of the time.

 

When they get old or start declining, they change teams sometimes.  Montana to the Chiefs, Peyton to the Broncos, Favre to the Jets and then Vikings.