The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't know much about Anderson, honestly. I haven't watched him.  I know his reputation and his stats.  

 

I think 2 things really impacted Richardson's time here: 1. He was never healthy.  Like, from day 1 he was hurt.  2. (And this might be related to #1) they never used him the way he needed to be used, which was to stretch the field with speed to clear short and mid-range routes.  Now, if that's because his injuries took away his speed, I get that.  But it was weird that they paid a guy to take the top off the defense, and he was running 8 yard hitches all the damn time.  I can give injury as an excuse for some of that.  However I think there's a component of just bad use/coaching in there as well.  AND they signed him knowing the injury history, on a team filled with injury history.  Which is actually the reason I was very "meh" on the signing. However's idea it was.  

 

 

I've heard some criticism of the Richardson signing but not from the context of being misused.  He was used when he played deep, crossers, digs, hitches, etc -- not that different from Seattle.  I recall well how he was used in Seattle because I watched a bunch of his games before that FA year started.

 

Richardson would make some Beckham level acrobatic catches in Seattle, you could see the potential.  He had a few catches like that here.   Heck one of Alex's only big deep throws was to Richardson and he basically missed him by like 5 feet, yet Richardson found his way back to the ball and scored a TD.   I know the coaches (Cooley among others talked about it) privately at times pulled their hair out for how conservative Alex played and I doubt that was a good fit with Richardson.

 

Last year, and I mentioned at the time, they used Richardson and McLaurin interchangeable to threaten the defense deep early on.   But he didn't really have good QB play and heck when Callahan took over they were lucky to score a TD at times let alone run an explosive offense. 

 

IMO the issue with Richardson is he's thin as a rail and looks like an injury waiting to happen. 

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

(I'm quoting the tweet, not directly responding to @Skinsinparadise) 

 

FWIW, I wouldn't pick up the option, and I would set AP free.  Part of this is because I am like the only guy who just can't get over the fact he was convicted of beating his 4 year old son, and I just can't get past it.  I appreciate and respect his talent and his career, but I just can't get over it. It's not a hill I'm willing to die on, but it just bothers me.  

 

The football side is that I think he just doesn't fit in the same mold as the other RBs, and they should try and find a complementary back to backup the 2 recovering guys.  I gave Jay a really hard time for having AP and not wanting to use him correctly. And the "run the ball 50 times out of the I formation" might have been one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.  However, in Jay's defense, if you're going to maximize what AP can do, it's just different than what Guice and Love can do, so you kindof have to scheme and teach 2 different things.  

 

Since we're starting over, I wouldn't mind just going young, and drafting another guy or signing somebody who can fill the role, and is more a complement.

 

Also, something I REALLY hated about the approach we've had is the concept of a 1st/2nd down back and a 3rd down back.  By definition, this means you have a tell.  Get more versatility even on early downs, and you can make sure the defense isn't expecting what you are doing. Mike Martz, who had Marshall Faulk, said something to the effect of the defense should be scared you can score a TD on every play, regardless of down and distance because it keeps them from being extremely aggressive.  I always found that very insightful.  Faulk wasn't your prototypical 1st/2nd down back, especially with the types of backs in the late 1990's/00's but they used him creatively, and had one of the best offenses in football for a 5 year span.  It was one of my favorite offenses to watch. Specifically the years when Vermeil was HC.  Because I think he forced Martz to care a little bit about protection.  Once Dick moved on, Martz basically became Spurrier and repeatedly got his QBs killed.  

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've heard some criticism of the Richardson signing but not from the context of being misused. 

Both JP and Keim have harped on this in recent weeks.  I don't know if they're right or just reaching, but it's popped up several times.  Keim has specifically said somewhere (I don't know where, his pod or on Kevin's show, or on Kevin's pod, or JP's pod, it's impossible to keep it all straight) that they signed Richardson and then didn't use him appropriately.  JP has said the same somewhere.  

 

You can take this as an unverified source because there's no way I'm digging through 20 hours of podcasts to find it.   

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Both JP and Keim have harped on this in recent weeks.  I don't know if they're right or just reaching, but it's popped up several times.  Keim has specifically said somewhere (I don't know where, his pod or on Kevin's show, or on Kevin's pod, or JP's pod, it's impossible to keep it all straight) that they signed Richardson and then didn't use him appropriately.  JP has said the same somewhere.  

 

You can take this as an unverified source because there's no way I'm digging through 20 hours of podcasts to find it.   

 

It's probably not Finlay because I am just about caught up with his pods, I am behind on Sheehan though.  I just don't see how he was misused.  Seattle didn't use him just as a deep threat.   One of the things that struck me early this season is how they used both McLaurin and Richardson to take the top off of the defense.  Sometimes even on the same side of the field.  Sometimes it would be one serving as a decoy.

 

He's fast and has really good hands. He seems to run good routes too and gets open.  That's typically plenty.  But the dude looks frail and its played out that way in his career.  He's even more fragile than Jordan Reed.   He was hurt every year in Seattle but his last season and he was banged up here, too.  2 ACLs among other maladies in his career.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Andre The Giant]

 

[OVCChairman]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's probably not Finlay because I am just about caught up with his pods, I am behind on Sheehan though.  I just don't see how he was misused.  Seattle didn't use him just as a deep threat.   One of the things that struck me early this season is how they used both McLaurin and Richardson to take the top off of the defense.  Sometimes even on the same side of the field.  Sometimes it would be one serving as a decoy.

 

He's fast and has really good hands. He seems to run good routes too and gets open.  That's typically plenty.  But the dude looks frail and its played out that way in his career.  He's even more fragile than Jordan Reed.   He was hurt every year in Seattle but his last season and he was banged up here, too.  2 ACLs among other maladies in his career.

 

 

It was Sheehan, and he said it again on Friday afternoon on the show with Smoot.. I was listening to it on my way home.  They both said Richardson wasn't used correctly, not necessarily the deep ball catches, but there was little threat.  He was running a lot of stuff underneath.  They were mostly using Richardson as an example to hammer home the idea that we misused Norman a lot.  Norman rose to fame in a zone system with dominant pass rush.... We were asking him to play man to man and try to be a shut down corner.  Something that he wasn't specifically known for.  

 

I don't know exactly how I feel about it, because i'm not sure I can definitively say we didn't use him correctly.  I can say we absolutely did not use Norman correctly, the same way we didn't use Chris Thompson at times, or Josh Doctson correctly.  CT should not be running A or B gaps as often as he was, and we were throwing fade routes to Richardson and not Doctson.  Doctson clearly hasn't made us look bad for letting him go, but to not even take those shots?  He was known for his ability to high point a football... 

[HTTRDynasty]

12 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

Man, I would do this deal in a millisecond.

 

• If they can't get Williams to agree to an extension by Friday, inform him his trade request is being honored. Grant his agent permission to seek a new contract with any interested teams as part of the trade discussions. They should be able to land at least two second-round picks for him given what Laremy Tunsil fetched from the Texans.

[Est.1974]

I’ll circle back around to where I was many months ago about WR.

 

Go get Diggs from the Vikings. 
 

I mean they are stuck in a bit of a cap hole right now too. Somethings need to give there.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[veteranskinsfan]

Just read what La Confora wrote about the 8 moves and I agree with his approach.  Normally I do not always agree with him.   Trade Williams.  Franchise tag 

Scherff.  Let Reed be a coach if he wants.  Trade Dunbar.  Let Guice go.  I might keep Peterson if he does not cost much (Jason said to let him go).  Trade Ryan

Anderson and let Kerrigan stay for one more year if he will take a pay cut that is a more reasonable salary.  Definitely move on from Alex Smith in 2021.  Auction

off pick 2 and see what you can get.  If you cannot get a huge load of good picks then stay at pick number 2 and draft the guy everyone says we should pick.

I am on the fence with Dunbar.  Jason says to trade him.  But he is not a malcontent.  I would keep him if his salary demands are not unreasonable.  If he wants

too much money then tell him to not let the door hit him on his way out.

[Skinsinparadise]

I agree with some of Laconfora's stuff.  I think trading Guice is lunacy though for two reasons.

 

A. Right now his market value is at a low coming off injury so you are just basically giving him away.

B.  His potential is IMO enormous.

 

Before Guice, my man crush the previous draft was Dalvin Cook.  Cook got hurt and really didn't become a superstar until his 3rd season.  I am not saying Guice will be on that same track.  Got no idea if some dude is going to crash into his knee again like what happened to end his season but I'd at least give him another chance to find out.

 

Randy Jordan the RB coach said part of the reason why he wanted to come back was he saw Guice as a special back and he has some unfinished business on that front.  I am with him on that.  If Guice can stay healthy he can be a top 5 back in the league IMO and you don't just give away dudes like that for 6th rounders or whatever.  I am 100% in on giving Guice another chance.  

[Inigo Montoya]

Agreed on Guice, no value there and I haven't seen a trade down scenario play out well for the kings ransom of picks since the cowboys did it. take chase and build a scary D. 

[KDawg]

RE: Richardson being frustrated with 17 quarters without a touchdown:

 

Ya. Of course he was. 

[dyst]

Guice looks like he can be good but nothing shown so far that screams “special”.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

47 minutes ago, dyst said:

Guice looks like he can be good but nothing shown so far that screams “special”.

His 10 for 126 and a TD again against Carolina with that insane stiff arm wasn’t special? Come on now. 
 

Trading Guice is lunacy. You won’t get anything for him because of his injuries. If you keep him he could be a top 5 back and breakout ala cook as others have said. Talent is unquestionably high. Many thought he could go top 15 in 2018 and he fell for that weird off the field stuff. None of that’s come true. He’s a stud if he’s on the field. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, dyst said:

Guice looks like he can be good but nothing shown so far that screams “special”.

 

He averaged just a hair under 6 yards per attempt, 11 yards per pass.  Not sure what he has to do to earn special status but granted that was a small sample.  I get the small sample argument and injury debate.  But as a player Guice IMO flashed big time.  

 

The Rundown: Coach Jordan On Derrius Guice: "He's Got Every Tool In The Toolbox"

Running backs Coach Randy Jordan talks about running back Derrius Guice

https://www.redskins.com/video/the-rundown-coach-jordan-on-derrius-guice-he-s-got-every-tool-in-the-toolbox

[Skinsinparadise]

He was one of my backup FA ideas, if Trent bolts.  He's no Trent though so if they are negotiating an extension with Trent (don't know if they are one way or another) this contract probably doesn't help the cause of reigning it in. 

 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Yep. Trent was making $14 million on his current deal and I wouldn’t be shocked if he signed a 3 year extension (so including his 2020 money of $14m) that brought the 3 year average to $17-18 million per year. So a 3 and 52 type deal. Or 2 and 38 beyond this year. 
 

Lock up Scherff and Flowers and I feel a little better about any trading of Trent. But I think you keep what y got and you extend him. If you can’t come together on a number that makes sense then I guess you try and get at least a 2 for him. If not a 2+3 or a late 1. Then draft an OT in a deep class early and hope the rest of the line is good enough to support a rookie LT.  Yeesh. 
 

PS extending 3/50 or so is probably the best bet 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[skinsfan93]

10 hours ago, markmills67 said:

I've got a sneaky feeling that we will go all out for Cooper. 

 

HTTR 

If Bruce was still in charge I would agree but I hope Ron has better judgement. Cooper is good but he has no heart. 

[dyst]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

His 10 for 126 and a TD again against Carolina with that insane stiff arm wasn’t special? Come on now. 

As a fan of this team, I like to see consistency before I anoint a player or a unit, or the team as a whole as something special. It was nice to see him have a good game, Matt Jones also had a good game once, so did Rob Kelly. If he can play 2 games in a row without getting hurt, then maybe I will get excited.

[skinsfan93]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's probably not Finlay because I am just about caught up with his pods, I am behind on Sheehan though.  I just don't see how he was misused.  Seattle didn't use him just as a deep threat.   One of the things that struck me early this season is how they used both McLaurin and Richardson to take the top off of the defense.  Sometimes even on the same side of the field.  Sometimes it would be one serving as a decoy.

 

He's fast and has really good hands. He seems to run good routes too and gets open.  That's typically plenty.  But the dude looks frail and its played out that way in his career.  He's even more fragile than Jordan Reed.   He was hurt every year in Seattle but his last season and he was banged up here, too.  2 ACLs among other maladies in his career.

I agree Richardson was not used correctly. They needed to use him similar to how KC uses Hill and Hardman. Ultimately they needed to have a more open offense and let him run around. I cringed every time Richardson ran a slant route. That’s not his game.
 

Problem was Gruden who wasn’t flexible planning his offense around his players and not the other way around. Hopefully Turner takes a different approach as he did with McCaffery. Heck when Norv had Benjamin and Funchess in Carolina, you saw a bunch of plays where Cam just threw it up letting them go get them. 
 

For Jay it was all about fitting a square peg in a round hole. Jay had a good eye on talent but was too stubborn to change/modify his offense and his play calling. Look at Andy Reid. He designed a offense around Mahomes and his skill set. It was a completely different offense than when Alex was the quarterback. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

IMO, Richardson’s problem was not how we used him. Dude was/is Frail and did not deserve the contract we gave him. It was a total reach. No matter how or where we played him, the outcome was inevitable.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He was one of my backup FA ideas, if Trent bolts.  He's no Trent though so if they are negotiating an extension with Trent (don't know if they are one way or another) this contract probably doesn't help the cause of reigning it in. 

Exactly, SIP.  I would think that TW is doing the smart thing too to see how much some of these guys are going to get paid to set the market for him to get an increase.  If so, I hope we trade him and get a couple 2nd round picks or a 1st and change.  D.J. is much years younger and is just starting to come into his own.  TW although still good is on the wrong side of 30 and hasn't played a full season in awhile.