The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[LD0506]

I think it's damn near impossible to assess what we have at a lot of positions considering the constant churning cluster**** the team has endured. Haslett and Barry and Manusky? Oy, not good, and tbh I don't feel like it is or ought to be some damning indictment of them and their abilities but a symptom of the larger distracting issues that have plagued the team for decades. IMO the single biggest change that Rivera & Co. can make right up front is eliminating all the noise and bull****, jettison the backbiting media leaks and ego driven sniping and teach these guys what team really means, and I'd include everyone wearing a tie in the FO as well.

 

Ryan Anderson or SDH might easily thrive under new tutelage and be more than we've seen, at this point I kinda feel like I have to give everyone a pass and a reboot until we see TC.

[Koolblue13]

I agree. I think, unless a major player surprisingly pops free, I think we stay with what we have and the draft. I'm okay with it. Not thrilled or excited, just okay.

[ThePackisback]

I see the Skins going upward and my boys might struggle next year.

[Ghedrick]

21 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

I think it's damn near impossible to assess what we have at a lot of positions considering the constant churning cluster**** the team has endured. Haslett and Barry and Manusky? Oy, not good, and tbh I don't feel like it is or ought to be some damning indictment of them and their abilities but a symptom of the larger distracting issues that have plagued the team for decades. IMO the single biggest change that Rivera & Co. can make right up front is eliminating all the noise and bull****, jettison the backbiting media leaks and ego driven sniping and teach these guys what team really means, and I'd include everyone wearing a tie in the FO as well.

 

Ryan Anderson or SDH might easily thrive under new tutelage and be more than we've seen, at this point I kinda feel like I have to give everyone a pass and a reboot until we see TC.

I agree with you here the coaching has been horrific here for quite some time on defense. I believe with real coaching we have alot of guys who will be greatly improved.I know alot of people are down on Nicholson, Moreau and Apke but there is no denying they have talent to get it done. My hope is that the new coaching helps these guys reach thier potential.

[carex]

1 minute ago, Ghedrick said:

I agree with you here the coaching has been horrific here for quite some time on defense. I believe with real coaching we have alot of guys who will be greatly improved.I know alot of people are down on Nicholson, Monroe and Apke but there is no denying they have talent to get it done. My hope is that the new coaching helps these guys reach thier potential.

 

Monroe?

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

Ryan Anderson or SDH might easily thrive under new tutelage and be more than we've seen, at this point I kinda feel like I have to give everyone a pass and a reboot until we see TC.

 

I agree to a point. But seeing a guys' skillset is enough of a picture. When they watch film, they'll be able to tell what a guy should be capable of versus not capable of.

 

And then the idea of culture has to come into play... Even IF Nicholson proves to be an okay choice at FS given on-field ability and was negatively effected by scheme, is he a guy you want to roll with character wise?

 

That's just an example.

 

I think we've seen enough to know that we could use a corner, if for no other reason than Dunbar being nicked up. Norman may have something left in his tank if he's willing to restructure. But we'd still need to add something at corner to help with depth issues. Free safety may be okay play wise (I don't think it is), but even then, Apke/Nicholson haven't shown the ability to take over, and when they have (Nicholson) you're always curious if he's going to be there.

 

We know Anderson isn't fluid in coverage, so we know he's got a rough road to being an OLB.

 

We know Holcomb struggled in coverage, but is smart and a good tackler and may improve as a MIKE with more limited coverage roles.

 

We know SDH can cover, which is valuable for an OLB, but the jury is out on his run stopping. 

 

There's a lot you can learn even given the poorly coached nature of the team from watching film. The question is: How quickly and how well can some of the coachable items improve under the new regime?

 

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I'd be intrigued by Anderson moving to MIKE. I'm not sure if that works, really. I don't have a good view on if his instincts are good enough.

 

But it seems like it's a spot he could play given his demeanor/attitude and how he plays with some controlled violence.

 

But his instincts/reads would be key to that. And I have no way of knowing if he is capable of it versus Cole Holcomb. 

 

I've said it a few times, I'm not in love with any of our linebacker situation. I think I'm most comfortable with SDH as an OLB and I'm borderline there. But I do think there is some possibility of it being better than I currently projecting it to be with some tweaking. 

 

I really, really hope we add something there, though. @Skinsinparadise

 

I agree we need to add to the linebacker corp.   I recall some talk about how Ryan Anderson might be able to play MLB back when we drafted him.  Got my doubts though because of his lack of athleticism.

 

I can see him though play some OLB in some formations.  Supposedly, Del Rio likes to play 4-3 under front with the OLB playing close to the line of scrimmage.   I can see Ryan fitting that in part because its not that different than what he is already doing now.

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2017/6/15/15743730/skins-stats-ryan-anderson-amp-the-athleticism-elephant-in-the-room

 

This is where things really start to take a turn for the worse for Ryan Anderson. He had one of the worst times in the 10-yard dash and only fellow Redskins OLB Houston Bates put up a lower number in the vertical jump than Anderson's 28.5 inches.

Bates was also the only edge rusher with a lower adjusted vertical. Wesley Woodyard and fellow Redskins Nico Marley and Pete Robertson were the only off-ball LBs that fared worse in this department.

 

This is clearly not a good look for Anderson for a couple of reasons.

First, four of the five players below him in these rankings are on Washington's roster, and they probably won't make the final 53.

Secondly, and more importantly, explosiveness is easily the most essential athletic trait for edge rushers to have. That could be a major issue for Ryan Anderson, who looks to be one of the least explosive players in football.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I can see him though play some OLB in some formations.  Supposedly, Del Rio likes to play 4-3 under front with the OLB playing close to the line of scrimmage.   I can see Ryan fitting that in part because its not that different than what he is already doing now.

 

 

That would be mostly against TE sets. And it would likely kick Chase Young down inside in a 4 or 5-tech.

 

Or it would require a personnel change with Sweat coming off, Young moving to the weak side end and getting Ioannidis at the strong 4/5, Payne at the strong 1, and Allen at the weak 3. 

[skinny21]

Mentioned it in another post, but to expand... Anderson went into to Combine, and subsequently the league, believing in himself because he was a smart/instinctual dog of a player.  A guy that would work his butt off on the field. It is/was a great mentality in terms of being a team player and leader, but he apparently had no idea how important it was to dedicate himself off the field.  We probably all remember how he said he’s not a “workout warrior”.  

 

My point is that since he’s had the revelation/turnaround in terms of preparing and taking care of his body, I’m not sure we should place much emphasis on his combine numbers.  I’d be willing to bet he’s significantly faster, stronger and more explosive (perhaps even a bit more fluid). 
 

This isn’t to say I think he’s now a top athlete (or even close to it), or that I think he’ll excel at whatever role they put him in (particularly in coverage if he’s a backer)... I just wanted to add to the info/address the perceptions out there.  

[wit33]

Anderson could provide the defensive unit with versatility as an early down run stopping backer/back up pass rusher/special teams type guy. With the dual threat QB and run teams still living in today’s NFL, some value may remain in having a thumper on the unit. I like the idea of having personnel to face all types of offenses. 
 

Hopefully it’s another off season of him getting bigger, faster, and stronger. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Mentioned it in another post, but to expand... Anderson went into to Combine, and subsequently the league, believing in himself because he was a smart/instinctual dog of a player.  A guy that would work his butt off on the field. It is/was a great mentality in terms of being a team player and leader, but he apparently had no idea how important it was to dedicate himself off the field.  We probably all remember how he said he’s not a “workout warrior”.  

 

 

I like Anderson but that seem to me just excuse making for a bad combine on his end. He really didn't have much else to say but he's not a combine guy but a football player.  I am not sure about the dedication part either considering for two different off seasons we've heard narratives from him about how he previously didn't take diet-exercise as seriously as he should but now he's committed.   I think Ryan is a voracious player on the field who goes the extra mile but he doesn't seem to paint the picture for himself that he's a very hard worker off the field because we got three different narratives from him about how he didn't do it before but now he's on it.

 

Regardless of all of that, I used to run some track and short distance was my thing.  I just don't think you can train yourself a heck of a lot as to speed.  You either got it or you don't.   You can improve stamina and long distance running but its very hard to improve straight out speed (short distance).

 

I had a friend among others who can easily beat me long distance.  We used to go jogging together and he'd pull away with him often beating me by 1/4 a mile or so.  but if we did sprints, he had no chance against me.  I am just faster than him, period.  It didn't even matter if he was in better shape, he'd have no chance.  It wasn't even close.

 

So my point about Ryan's speed.  I think his training for the combine had very little to do with his lack of athleticism.  I think he's a try hard-motor guy.  I don't think training more changes 40-10 yard speed much.  It can change it a little.  It would change though his ability to sustain himself endurance wise for the length of a game.     

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

That would be mostly against TE sets. And it would likely kick Chase Young down inside in a 4 or 5-tech.

 

Or it would require a personnel change with Sweat coming off, Young moving to the weak side end and getting Ioannidis at the strong 4/5, Payne at the strong 1, and Allen at the weak 3. 

 

Often that way, yeah.  But you can also keep Sweat in there and stack Young right behind him or vice versa.  Both Sweat and Young supposedly are decent against the run.   You can give a little against the run by jacking up the pass rush at times with Sweat, Young, and Kerrigan coming off the edge in just about any permutation.

 

Young played some coverage in the mix of his assignments in Ohio State, too. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Often that way, yeah.  But you can also keep Sweat in there and stack Young right behind him or vice versa.  Both Sweat and Young supposedly are decent against the run.   You can give a little against the run by jacking up the pass rush at times with Sweat, Young, and Kerrigan coming off the edge in just about any permutation.

 

Young played some coverage in the mix of his assignments in Ohio State, too. 

 

I was talking in direct response to Anderson at SAM.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I was talking in direct response to Anderson at SAM.

 

Yeah agree for Anderson if playing OLB in an underfront 4-3 he'd be playing strong side. 

[carex]

rumor had it a new CBA could be signed before the Super Bowl.  That gives us two weeks.  So, if it happens do you think it would go into affect immediately and potentially affect free agency this year?

 

At the very least it would remove the ability to use the franchise and transition tags simultaneously and any rules due to it being the  last year of the CBA

[Est.1974]

I really don’t see us spending big at FS.

 

Bradberry getting paid at CB seems more likely to me, with more value hunting going on at safety. Adrian Phillips or Tre Boston seem to give that value as solid acquisitions to round out the DB group.

 

Take Young then draft a LB either in the third, or jump back into the second. That addresses the D for now....

 

Shore up the OL by trying to get Trent and Scherff back, pay good money for a TE in FA if possible, then take a flyer on some dynamic/impact prospects at RB/WR in the mid rounds. 
 

I’d still consider canning Moses’ contract off the books and looking for an alternative approach at RT.

 

 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

I'm pretty certain we'll sign 1 or more guys from this list.

 

https://www.panthers.com/news/carolina-panthers-2020-free-agents

 

Complete list of Panthers 2020 free agents

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS

• EDGE Mario Addison
• S Tre Boston
• CB James Bradberry
• DT Vernon Butler
• CB Ross ****rell
• CB Javien Elliott
• WR Chris Hogan
• DE Wes Horton
• EDGE Bruce Irvin
• DT Kyle Love
• DT Gerald McCoy
• NT Stacy McGee
• G Greg Van Roten
• G Daryl Williams

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 

Bradberry getting paid at CB seems more likely to me, with more value hunting going on at safety. Adrian Phillips or Tre Boston seem to give that value as solid acquisitions to round out the DB group.

I knew I missed someone..

 

Daryl Worley is the other CB. At the Raiders, but drafted by Rivera. Coincidentally he was taken in the third round of the same draft Bradberry was picked in the second. Clearly didn’t last long in CAR, but was essentially sacrificed in a trade for help elsewhere on the roster.

 

We have several viable options in FA to vastly improve our DB group.

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Anderson but that seem to me just excuse making for a bad combine on his end. He really didn't have much else to say but he's not a combine guy but a football player. 
 

Well, plenty of guys train specifically for the combine drills.  My understanding was he didn’t really.  

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not sure about the dedication part either considering for two different off seasons we've heard narratives from him about how he previously didn't take diet-exercise as seriously as he should but now he's committed.   
 

I’m not sure if I’m understanding you here.  I was saying he didn’t previously (heading into the NFL and his rookie season) see the work needed to be done off the field and now he does.  So it seems like you’re agreeing with me but saying you disagree?

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think Ryan is a voracious player on the field who goes the extra mile but he doesn't seem to paint the picture for himself that he's a very hard worker off the field because we got three different narratives from him about how he didn't do it before but now he's on it.
 

Right - he wasn’t, but now he is... I’m not seeing the disconnect.  I don’t think this stems from a lack of motivation, but rather a lack of understanding how important it is to treat you body a certain way (in-season and off-season) in terms of what you eat and the weight you carry.  

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Regardless of all of that, I used to run some track and short distance was my thing.  I just don't think you can train yourself a heck of a lot as to speed.  You either got it or you don't.   You can improve stamina and long distance running but its very hard to improve straight out speed (short distance).

 

I had a friend among others who can easily beat me long distance.  We used to go jogging together and he'd pull away with him often beating me by 1/4 a mile or so.  but if we did sprints, he had no chance against me.  I am just faster than him, period.  It didn't even matter if he was in better shape, he'd have no chance.  It wasn't even close.

 

So my point about Ryan's speed.  I think his training for the combine had very little to do with his lack of athleticism.  I think he's a try hard-motor guy.  I don't think training more changes 40-10 yard speed much.  It can change it a little.  It would change though his ability to sustain himself endurance wise for the length of a game.     

I strongly disagree with this point (albeit with a caveat).  You can change the type of training you do to become a lot better at a certain type of running.  Explosion drills to work on burst and sprint speed, endurance training to work on longer runs - training your muscles to do what you want them to.  I’m like you in that I’ve always excelled at short area quickness, but I guarantee that if I jogged a lot more and increased the distances I ran on a consistent basis, I would become a much better long distance runner.  
Now, with all of that said, it’s a lot harder to improve your athleticism and fluidity, and even if you can, you might not see much improvement no matter how hard you work at it.  Certain body types will also work differently - people aren’t freak athletes simply because they train harder - they’re just wired that way.  My peak as a long distance runner could never match my peak as a sprinter.  
On top of that, if you are already in good physical shape, it’s much harder to see much change if you work out a bit harder/eat better.  However, there’s a reason we hear about athletes shedding bad body weight/changing their workout program and feeling faster because it.  
 

Bringing this back to Anderson, I can easily believe he is faster than his combine numbers indicate.  I don’t see that translating into him performing well in coverage - he’s still limited as an athlete.  So I wasn’t trying to argue that he could be a 3 down backer, I was just pointing out the problem with relying solely on combine numbers.  

[Anselmheifer]

Anderson just isn't an explosive athlete. He was a reach in the second round and a reach that we only felt that we needed to make to improve team toughness. Anyone could have looked at his arm length and 40/10 and jumping numbers and seen that he should go in the 4th. It's not hind sight. It didn't look like a good pick at the time. Jack Del Rio says he likes our Linebackers, but I still have to think we look for an upgrade there. Especially since SDH has such an injury history. 

[Koolblue13]

21 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Anderson just isn't an explosive athlete. He was a reach in the second round and a reach that we only felt that we needed to make to improve team toughness. Anyone could have looked at his arm length and 40/10 and jumping numbers and seen that he should go in the 4th. It's not hind sight. It didn't look like a good pick at the time. Jack Del Rio says he likes our Linebackers, but I still have to think we look for an upgrade there. Especially since SDH has such an injury history. 

He was definitely a bad pick at where he was picked, but that hardly matters anymore. If he was a 4rth round pick and started to come on in the back half of his second season, we'd be happy with him. From NFL

 

DRAFT PROJECTION

 Rounds 3-4

SOURCES TELL US

 "Size is more suited for 4-3 SAM but he could play some rush outside backer in a 3-4. He would fit Baltimore and Pittsburgh as a 3-4 SAM, too." -- NFC area scout

NFL COMPARISON

 Ahmad Brooks

BOTTOM LINE

 Well-schooled with a high football IQ and a history as a winner. His disciplined, assignment-based approach to the game should resonate with defensive coordinators. Lack of length and average athletic traits could put a cap on his draft stock, but he should be a safe pick and a long-time starter as an outside linebacker.

-Lance Zierlein

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

10 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I agree. I think, unless a major player surprisingly pops free, I think we stay with what we have and the draft. I'm okay with it. Not thrilled or excited, just okay.

What????? Have you forgotten who we are? We're supposed to have around 70 mil in cap space and you guys want to sit pat? No way....we gotta go after Brady, Henry, AJ Green and every other big name!!!!!

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

What????? Have you forgotten who we are? We're supposed to have around 70 mil in cap space and you guys want to sit pat? No way....we gotta go after Brady, Henry, AJ Green and every other big name!!!!!

I expect us to spend a ****load of money and set the tone of FA this year and I'll be disappointed if we're not major players. 

 

@Skinsinparadise LB just seems like a position that doesn't come free from good teams, unless theres something wrong with them.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Well, plenty of guys train specifically for the combine drills.  My understanding was he didn’t really.  

 

 

You can improve on some of the drills.  but on the 40 times, you can improve only slightly.  It's one of the rare athletic measures that I have a lot of personal experience with.   You can't train someone who isn't fast to become fast.  Short speed -- 10-40 times is mostly innate.  Either you got it or you don't.  Main thing you can do is help them with a quick get off at the whistle but otherwise there is a ceiling as to what you can do.

 

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

I’m not sure if I’m understanding you here.  I was saying he didn’t previously (heading into the NFL and his rookie season) see the work needed to be done off the field and now he does.  So it seems like you’re agreeing with me but saying you disagree?

Right - he wasn’t, but now he is... I’m not seeing the disconnect.

 

He said the same thing in the previous off seasons, too.  1st was post combine.  2nd time was post rookie season.  Third time was before this season.   I posted the articles back then, I don't really feel like digging them up again.  It's one thing if I heard it once from him.  But three times makes me at least wonder about him in the off season.  That's all.

 

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

I’m like you in that I’ve always excelled at short area quickness, but I guarantee that if I jogged a lot more and increased the distances I ran on a consistent basis, I would become a much better long distance runner.  

 

Sure, I flat out said anyone can improve as a long distance runner.  Short distance is another story. 

 

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Now, with all of that said, it’s a lot harder to improve your athleticism and fluidity, and even if you can, you might not see much improvement no matter how hard you work at it.  Certain body types will also work differently - people aren’t freak athletes simply because they train harder - they’re just wired that way.  My peak as a long distance runner could never match my peak as a sprinter.  

 

OK here you are making my point, too.  So not sure what we are disagreeing that strongly on?

 

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

Bringing this back to Anderson, I can easily believe he is faster than his combine numbers indicate.  

 

It depends on what you mean by faster.  The main thing that trainers seem to do with the 40 is train players to be a hair faster by generating a quick get off from the whistle.   But you are making a nominal change on that front.  I have a lot of experience with sprints and short term speed.   I probably can still run a 40 at a decent clip, I'd guess these days about 4.5 which is a slower than what I once could do but I am still pretty fast. 

 

I have a small torso and long legs and  I can just move fast.  If I ran a 40 if I was 10 pounds heavier or lighter than i am now it wouldn't make much of a difference.   If I trained it wouldn't make much of a difference as to short distance.  Being out of shape wouldn't change it because you don't get winded from a sprint.  And a little extra girth doesn't really get in the way either.  Now if I put on 30 pounds maybe that would get in the way but Anderson wasn't that level out of shape.    

 

Bringing this back to Anderson my point is i'd prefer any linebacker playing in space to simply be faster than a 4.75.  I'd like them to be in the 4.5-4.6 range.  And I doubt Ryan can train himself into running that fast.  Like you said its hard to improve athleticism.    If you told me that Anderson can improve his poor agility numbers, that I could certainly buy.  Endurance, too as i said in my previous post.  

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I expect us to spend a ****load of money and set the tone of FA this year and I'll be disappointed if we're not major players. 

 

@Skinsinparadise LB just seems like a position that doesn't come free from good teams, unless theres something wrong with them.

 

I haven't thought much about AJ Klein but I recall (I believe in 2016?) the dude started a game against us (he was a backup at the time) because of an injury and he was on fire against us that day.